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Rosales No. 2 in the order? Not yet | The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news
 

Home > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2009 > May > 03 > Entry

Rosales No. 2 in the order? Not yet

There were some grumpy folks walking into the Cincinnati Reds clubhouse Sunday morning. There was marathon that wound its way through downtown Pittsburgh and cabs outside the Omni hotel were scarce.

“And if you could find one, I saw some parts of Pittsburgh I’d never seen before,” said manager Dusty Baker.

For the third straight day, it was overcast with the threat of rain and Baker said, “Typical Pittsburgh gray.” When I said, “Maybe that’s why the old Pittsburgh Negro League team called itself the Homestead Grays, Baker said, “That could be right.”

Speaking of marathons, Reds media relations director ran the Flying Pig Marathon in Cincinnati Sunday, his first marathon. His goal was to do it in less than 3 1/2 hours. He made it by one minute - 3:29. And he’s still breathing.

SUNDAY’S LINEUP is very familiar - same-ol’, same-oh:

Willy Taveras, Chris Dickerson, Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Ramon Hernandez, Adam Rosales, Alex Gonzalez, Johnny Cueto.

It was different late Saturday night - Rosales was batting sixth, ahead of Hernandez. But after Baker slept on it, he changed it so that Hernandez was sixth and Rosales seventh.

Actually, Baker was asked if he considered moving Rosales up to second in the order.

“It’s very important where he is now,” said Baker. “He can turn the lineup over, get us to the top of the order. And he can get us some important two-out knocks with runners on base. Number two? There are a lot of things to do there, a lot of responsibilitiesl. Rosales is not a taker yet and we need that with Taveras ahead of him. I like speed up there - Chris Dickerson and Jerry Hairston Jr. And Rosales is just learning the pitching. I thought about putting him up there, but then decided - not yet. Let’s let him chill and marinate down there for a while.”

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Comments

By ???????????????

May 5, 2009 9:10 AM | Link to this

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By ross

May 4, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this

no disrespect wiz but if Janish played 130 games he would hit about.210..Hanigan might hit .230..Dickerson maybe .230

By Mark in Sun Valley

May 3, 2009 10:35 PM | Link to this

I repeat to clarify. Dusty manages ONE way. That does not mean there are not times that it has worked. Mainly with a veteran team. As his teams got younger, they got worse and thus he was fired. Though he has reached the post season, he is defeated there because his poor gameplans must now compete with another manager who is superior, thus no titles. Players swear by him because he does not get on them when they under perform. Hence the term “player’s manager”. That does not work for all players and seldom for young players still learning. Narron did well by EE ONLY, not the rest of the team and I will in no way say he was a better overall manager than Baker. My qualifications of course are not the same as Baker’s, but they do include 3 decades of coaching, including national championships in fast pitch softball, and running semi pro baseball teams stocked with many former professional players. The bottom line - I maintain Baker is a poor fit for THIS team, and when the season is over, sadly, I believe we will again be under .500 and 5th in the standings.. I am a die hard Reds fan, and I’d like to be wrong, but I think we will be closer to 70 wins than the overly optomistic 85-90 others think. One last thing, we get to argue over Dickerson vs Hairston vs Nix and EE vs Rosales, but in truth, are there 5 other teams in either league that would even CONSIDER starting these players over who they have? This is the shallow end of the talent pool folks. Over achieveing is the only real hope, so wht not ride the people who ARE overachieving at that moment?

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 10:00 PM | Link to this

Hey it was nice debating everyone have a good evening its time for the old people to go to bed.

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 9:45 PM | Link to this

Mark, your kidding right. When we win its luck because the other team plays bad and when they win its skill because they are better. The HR that won the houston game was a well played game that was 1-0 in the ninth inning when Ramon hit a 2 run homer.we are 13-11 are road record and inter division record are greatly improved and you think Dusty is doing a bad job because you with all your managerial experience think we could have done better.Here is a question what if you managed the team what do you think our record would be.Dusty is unarmed, HE IS A 3 TIME MANAGER OF THE YEAR HE CAN MANAGE> He has a career winning record, he has been to the world Series and play offs.Many former players swear by him and you know better.Jeff Brantley who has played for Dusty has said on more than one occasion that Dusty can be very stern he just won’t do it publicly.You think what Narron did was good. He sent EE down for not running out a ball and let the vets get away with it because WHY Great job narron.Why do you think you know what is in Dusty when Brantley says different and he played for him. Just a few facts please if you going to make a point.Again his way of managing has won at every stop and it will win here if given the right players. Here is something you may want to consider. Dusty played for quite a few years, He has managed for quite a few years and been very successful at it. Watch him and you may learn something.

By Mark in Sun Valley

May 3, 2009 8:21 PM | Link to this

Jim, there have been at least 5 games that were virtually given to us by the sloppy play of the opponent. Consistantly, decisions of who is playing, when bunts are or are not executed, when steals are or are not executed have left the Reds in positions where it took the miracle play (like the excuse me 2 run homer Hernandez had in Houston) to win. I always harken back to my favorite Sparky quote. Every year, there are 50 games you are going to win no matter what, and 50 games you will lose no matter what. The key is what happens in the other 62. In those 62 games and a battle of strategy, Dusty is unarmed. I am impressed that these young players playing hard for 9 full innings, which has helped get some runs. Last year’s team would have given up by the 6th inning. However, if you can’t get kids in their 1st and 2nd years in the majors fired up to play hard, there is something terribly wrong. I sure have not seen any fire lit under EE. The only time he ever responded was to a demotion and hard extra workouts with Jerry Narron. Dusty treats all players as though “they are professionals and they will eventually get it” Not true. Some players need a stronger hand, expecially younger players. They need a hard a*s and that is not in Dusty. He manages ONE WAY. Good managers adjust to each player and teams specific needs. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

By wizard

May 3, 2009 8:13 PM | Link to this

“Oh and by the way we are winning games in apr.and may.” WE HAVE ALSO LOST JUST ABOUT AS MANY!WHEN YOUR GUYS DID NOT PRODUCE! I love it when guys start complaining about the line up and the guy they complain about has a good game.YEP, THAT WAS ONE GAME!

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 8:09 PM | Link to this

blogcop, I think your mistaken, most wanted Gomes and Rosales on the team right out of spring trainingn.They would have replaced Nix and Janish. Perhaps your not watching as close as you should as the blogcop. lol. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.

By Wizard

May 3, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

You miss my entire point: I have never called for a complete and permanent change—I have called for FAIRNESS! We will never know if Janish and Hannigan could have accounted for six runs today—they don’t get the opportunity to stay fresh and consistant like your choices do. However, they do have better stats, if you want to talk, this year. Stats of the past mean as little to me as “age” does. I believe more in “how do you like me now”. I do not think it is “messing with success” when you replace better stats for those players in the lineup with better success stories on the bench! We are both interested in the Reds success; I just believe when my guys are producing, and Your guys are not—mine should play!mental and physical maturity have obviously benefited Dickerson/Janish/ and Hannigan, this, and last year. People/and athletes can change. They should not always be held to account for their past!

By blogcopwatcher

May 3, 2009 7:48 PM | Link to this

“as I remember most on here wanted Nix cut and janish sent to AAA.” Your memory is inaccurate!

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 7:47 PM | Link to this

Wizard, janish is not a better player than Agon. I don’t care what his avg is right now.If you compare numbers janish’s aren’t as good in the minors as agons in the majors. Hannigan is doing a nice job as is Ramon why mess with success. Either way we need their run production. Playing nix more against righties is OK but that means Dickerson sits. I would venture to say that if he doesn’t pick it up soon he will be on the bench. Also don’t look now but Stubbs is putting it together down in Louisville he is up to 285 after a horrible start. Oh and by the way we are winning games in apr.and may. I love it when guys start complaining about the line up and the guy they complain about has a good game. Agon had a 3 run hr Sat. and Ramon drove in 3 today. You think we would have gottten 6 rbi’s out of Janish and Hannigam? I’m not saying they are bad players but the reds don’t hit well enough to have two defensive orientated players in the line up. This isn’t the big Red machine. I guess there is know history to support that these 2 would sustain this kind of production.Sorry I disagree with you.

By Wizard

May 3, 2009 7:24 PM | Link to this

Winning games by playing your hottest players, in April and May—count just as much as they do in September! What, pray tell, justifies not playing the hottest players? “Manager means, buck stops here. It also means giving your team the best chance to win every day. Can you honestly say he does that when 3 of his top averages sit” on the bench?

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 7:06 PM | Link to this

Mark,the team is 13 and 11 and is playing quite a bit better than last year with a major change to its roster.I credit Dusty as do many other players who have played for him as being a great handler of players. He also helped select this roster and as I remember most on here wanted Nix cut and janish sent to AAA. So I guess he keeps them but doesn’t use them as much as you think so he is not a good manager.Like all managers he may stay with some to long and others not long enough I also credit Dusty for his finding a way to win when your almost last in hitting and fielding. Here is something to consider Maybe what Dusty understands is that While Agon and Ramon are off to a slow start with the limited offensive capabilities of this team he may need to give them a little more rope than you would like because he knows in the long run without their production this season will will be lost. We need run production and if Agon can hit 270 and 20 hr which he did in 07 before the injury and Ramon can give us about the same we can stay in this thing until walt pulls off a trade to help solidify the line up.Of course you could always go with your well thought out reasoning that they are all dating Dusty’s daughter. Certainly you have more class and baseball knowledge than that.

By Wizard

May 3, 2009 6:52 PM | Link to this

Thank You Mark in Sun Valley! Well said.

By Mark in Sun Valley

May 3, 2009 6:44 PM | Link to this

Jim, if you credit Dusty for Nix, Janish and Hanigan’s success, do you equally blame him for Gonzalez, Phillips, Dickerson and Hairston’s failures? On of my biggest knocks on Baker is his taking credit for things like that and then acting like he has nothing to do with players who do not succeed. Manager means, buck stops here. It also means giving your team the best chance to win every day. Can you honestly say he does that when 3 of his top averages sit on the bench?

By billy hustle

May 3, 2009 5:55 PM | Link to this

I definitely agree that Nix should be starting in left for now. Not sure I’m ready to make Hanigan the permanent starter but wouldn’t mind seeing him catch one more day during the rotation. Cueto looked good today. I disagree with everyone on Jannish. Think the Reds have a better chance overall with Gonzalez in the lineup. He sat out an entire year so I’ll give him a little more of a break on his slow start. I may regret saying that. Good to see BP starting to heat up. How good was his defensive play? Btw Taveras did try stealing today and got caught.

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this

Also another thing to consider is if Dusty can keep this team above 500 all year with how they have fielded and hit to this point he may win his 4th manager of the year award.

By Jim T

May 3, 2009 5:44 PM | Link to this

Nice move by Dusty moving Ramon up. A double and a single and 3 rbi’s. Anyone think Dusty maybe is responsible for Nix, janish and Hannigan having good numbers, by putting them in positions where their abilities enable them to contribute.Folks without a RH bat for the middle of the order to provide run production it is imperative that Agon and Ramon play to the back of their baseball cards. We have table setters at present we need some one other than Votto to knock them in. Also nice move by Dusty taking out Cueto. Pole really seems to have him throwing the ball well.By the way if Nix played against left handers his career avg is 178. Giving him more playing time against RH makes sense but weren’t you same guys screaming for Dickerson to play everyday about a week ago. Perhaps the reason Nix is playing well is Dusty knows how to utilize him to get the most out of him.

By BrarHopper

May 3, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this

For those few guys who still miss Griffey: 18 games, 63 ABs, 15 Ks, .190 BA. He’d still fit right in with Baker’s plans and Toothpick would still run him out there everyday in the 3 spot. LOL.

By Gary Maloy Jr

May 3, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this

I agree - Nix has to get more playing time. I realized it back in spring training. He’ll get in there…remember 1975? Peter Edward had to be moved in to 3rd base to make room for George Foster. TTT - Things Take Time. Gonzalez isn’t getting the job done, but I’m not sure Janish is the answer. I like PeteRose-ales, but what are they going to do with Encarnacion? A power bat off the bench? Not likely with his prospensity for making outs. And we certainly can’t use him as a defensive replacement. Send him down to Louisville to get healthy - maybe his bat will get healthy at the same time? Three shutouts in four days. Whodathunkit???? Go Reds

By Sal Monella

May 3, 2009 4:23 PM | Link to this

Dusty Baker for Ex-Reds Manager. A position he has earned. Is it ecven possible that he’s dumber and an ever worse manager than last year? It is clear that Hannigan, Rosales, Nix, and Janish should be the everyday guys for now. But no, just like last year with failure Patterson out there every day and batting useless Griffey in the 3-hole everyday. I think we all ought to join H-Tucky and just give up on this team until Baker is gone. MUCH too frustrating watching this day after day after day.

By Steven Ross

May 3, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this

I have no issues with Baker and how he’s handled the pitching staff. I have huge issues on his lineups. They make zero sense. This team could be so much better without Baker.

By Ryan K. Madison, IN.

May 3, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this

I am trying so hard to stay positive about how the season has been going but Dusty Baker makes it hard to stay that way with the lineups he puts out there everyday. Why is Laynce Nix not getting any time in left field? Why is Janish not getting any time at ss? Why is Taveres getting on base and not trying to steal? What happened to “small ball” and why in the hell isnt Ryan Hannigan getting time behind the plate? I’m not trying to be negative but I say to hell with the wild card spot this year I want the division and we’re not going to keep pace and evetually take the top spot from St Louis if we continue this. I have in the past taken up for Baker when people seemed to be bashing him but he’s starting to make me scratch my head also? We have one of the best pitching staffs in the national league and we’re gonna have to have guys come through at the plate if we’re going to contend over the next 3 months. I just wish Baker would do a few more things to spark the lineup? Does anyone else think we have a real chance to contend in our division this year with the pitching staff we have? I sure do and the lineup has to come through..that’s all there is to it and Captain toothpick needs to come up with something other than his usual predictable lineup in order to make us a threat in the National League.

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