Madison graduation 2012
Warren County CC graduation
New Miami graduation 2012
Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy has retired from the Dayton Daily News after covering the Cincinnati Reds for 37 years. Hal's blog, though, will continue to be a must-read for Reds fans. He'll share his thoughts on the team this season and will file updates from Great American Ball Park. You also can catch Hal in print every Sunday in his popular Ask Hal columnHome > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2010 > September > 14 > Entry
Keep Bronson Arroyo: Yes or no?
Frequently asked question: Should the Reds pick up Bronson Arroyo’s $13 option for next season?
Answer: That’s like asking if you want fries with your burger or if you want whipped cream and nuts on your sundae. Of course you do. Why not?
It is reason enough that Arroyo won his 15th game Monday night, 15 wins for the third straight season, and he is only 2 1/3 innings short of pitching 200 innings for the sixth straight year. He has never been on the DL during his career nor has he ever missed a start.
And the Reds need his veteran presence in the rotation, which will be loaded next year with pitchers still wet behind the ears as far as experience and success - Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto, Travis Wood, Mike Leake, Aroldis Chapman, Homer Bailey.
Some might say, “Well, you’ve just named six starting pitchers for five available spots and Arroyo isn’t in that list.” True. But he needs to be one of those five to provide that veteran leadership, a guiding light, some stability, some consistency and definitely dependability. It that enough ity’s?
AND ONLY FOUR pitchers have won 15 or more three years in a row - C C Sabathia, Roy Halladay, John Lester and Arroyo.
“That’s about as consistent as you can get,” said Baker. “Guys who keep winning 15 in a row are the big boys and you don’t think of Bronson as one of the big boys like C C Sabathia and Doc Halladay and Chris Carpenter. So, indeed, he is one of the big boys. He just doesn’t have the big boy stuff. But the name of the game is to win.”
The six straight 200 innings is even more impressive to Baker and he said, “That’s Bob Gibson and Ferguson Jenkins stuff right there.”
Arroyo will be one of only four active pitchers to go 200 or more innings six straight times, joining Dan Haren, Javier Vasquez and Mark Buehrle.
“The guy doesn’t take an All-Star break - he comes to the stadium and works out,” said Baker. “Everybody thinks he is Good-Time Charlie, which he is, but Good-Time Charlie works and runs and comes in to work all the time.”
Somebody suggested that in today’s game that maybe 15 wins for a pitcher is the new ‘20.’ Baker doesn’t buy it. “Twenty is 20,” he said. “That’s like saying .285 is the new .300. No, it’s not. .300 is .300 and 20 is 20.
BAKER CONSIDERED giving second baseman Brandon Phillips a day off Tuesday as he struggles with the bat, most likely due to the fact his hand still hurts. Phillips was 0 for 15 until he singled in the eighth inning Monday, “And I was going to give him the day off (Tuesday) until I saw him hit that rocket,” said Baker.
“He is still favoring it some,” said Baker. “His defense is so valuable that we need him out there. He can do a lot of things to help you win other than just hit.”
ONE OF THE many things so great about baseball is that there is always something going on that is exciting and interesting that may not have anything to do with whether a team wins or loses.
An excellent example was one at-bat Monday night: Cincinnati relief pitcher Bill Bray vs. Arizona pinch-hitter Rusty Ryal. That at-bat lasted 16 pitches before Bray finally struck him out. And that was after Bray struck out the first two batters of the inning.
Asked if he could go over each pitch, recall what he threw, Bray laughed and said, “Not a chance, even though I throw only two pitches (fastball, slider). I do know I struck him out on a fastball after he fouled off a slider on the previous pitch.” Ryal fouled off nine pitches on 3-and-2.
“Those are fun, even though they last forever and I had no idea how many pitches I threw,” Bray added. “At one point, somebody said, ‘Why don’t you try a splitter?’, even though I don’t throw one. Somebody else said, ‘Just hit him and put him on base and get the next guy.’ You don’t want to put a guy on base and I would never hit anybody on purposes anyway.
“Actually, I was wishing I could pull Aroldis Chapman’s 103 (miles an hour) out of my pocket,” Bray said. “You just try to keep throwing strikes, hit your spots as best you can and hope he puts the ball in play. That’s all I was doing, trying to get him to put it in play, not even thinking about a strikeout there.”
IT ISN’T EASY getting Baker to look ahead to the playoffs and when asked he usually says, “Our magic number is ‘1.’ Tonight’s game. That’s it.”
But he responded when asked what he would do after the Reds clinch the division, rest the regulars or keep playing them? Having the best record is important because it determines home field advantage - the team with the best record in the NL gets to start every series at home. two trains of thought on that,” said Baker. “You want to play ‘em so that they stay sharp. But you don’t want to play ‘em to the point where they carry injuries into the postseason. Hopefully we can get this thing done (division clinched) so I can give some guys a day or two off - like Joey Votto, who hasn’t had a day for a while.
“But I learned a valuable lesson in 1977,” Baker added. “I was going for 30 home runs and Steve Garvey was going for 200 hits so Garvey and I were the only guys who played all the way to the end after we (Dodgers) clinched. Reggie (Smith), Penguin (Ron Cey) and some of the other guys didn’t and sat down three or four days at the end.
“Then going into the playoffs the only guys sharp were me and Garvey,” Baker said. “After that, Garvey and I got a little tired because we didn’t have any rest, but the other guys started slow then finally got their strokes back. The lesson is: you have to play them some, even if it’s just half the game.”
Almost as if he realized what he was doing, without pausing, Baker added. “Let’s not put the cart before the horse. We still have a ways to go to win this thing and you can’t start thinking about what you are going to do - playing guys or not playing guys. That’s dangerous. Let’s save those kinds of questions until later…please.”
THE BIG BAFFLER: The first-place Cincinnati Reds drew 12,061 for Monday’s game against the Arizona Cardinals. Meanwhile, right next door, WWE Raw (professional wrestling) filled U.S. Bank Arena to nearly 18,000.
What’s up with that? And I’ve heard a half dozen reasons why the Reds aren’t drawing, despite some extremely hard work by the marketing department. I just don’t understand it. Big-time wrestling over big-league baseball? What’s that say about this town?
Permalink | Comments (49) | Post your comment |
Tweet
Comments
By pj
September 23, 2010 2:07 AM | Link to this
Absolutely
By pj
September 23, 2010 2:06 AM | Link to this
Absolutely
By alan
September 20, 2010 8:08 AM | Link to this
definitely keep arroyo…you need 8 starters to stay strong in your rotation, 5 and 3 in reserve mostly at AAA…dusty is right, you play today’s game and don’t try to answer questions not yet needing answers…as for attendance, well, i think it’s hard to cite one or two things…it’s different for everyone, what will bring them out or keep them from coming…but obviously, it will help if the reds keep themselves competitive year to year…
By Randy
September 18, 2010 2:09 PM | Link to this
WWE rules are easier to understand and there’s more room to park your pick up truck.
By Gary Maloy
September 17, 2010 2:24 PM | Link to this
1977 hahahaha the days of the hated Dodgers. They’d finally managed to get past the Big Red Machine and ended up in the WS against the Bronx Bombers. How’d that work out Dusty? I love your work for the Reds this year, I nearly forgot how much I hated you back then. Dusty, can you say “Reggie Jackson: one, two, three”? HAHAHAHAA
By Bob540
September 17, 2010 12:39 PM | Link to this
The Reds are in a Catch-22 situation so far as TV coverage is concerned. Yes, the ready availability of most games on TV probably does reduce numbers of fans in the stadium. On the other hand, people follow the teams they can watch. If fewer Reds’ games were televised, people would watch other teams on TV and might start to follow those teams more (if they win, that is) and the Reds less. As for Bronson, I think they should sign him.
By Gerry
September 15, 2010 7:06 PM | Link to this
Following up on watching them on TV, that’s the only way of following them here in Louisville. The radio station that currently carries them has a very weak signal that doesn’t come through at night in neighborhoods with overhead wires.
By Gerry
September 15, 2010 7:01 PM | Link to this
Why are the Reds not drawing? I don’t know about others but for me it’s the price of gas, plus tickets, plus parking, plus concessions, plus pace of the average game equals stay home and watch it on TV. Which isn’t such a great bargain since the cameras never catch the play, or the director has called for a shot of the third base coaches butt, or they’re focused on a player picking his nose.
By Cappy
September 15, 2010 4:14 PM | Link to this
I love that 700 WLW wonders why fans don’t show up to Reds games when they spend so much time trying to convince their listeners that downtown Cincinnati is a war zone full of wild eyed criminals and perverted homeless people. There’s no excuse for that attendance number. Cincinnati just isn’t a baseball town. Period.
By Max
September 15, 2010 3:08 PM | Link to this
Payroll aside, the Reds have always struggled with pitching. At times they have it all together, do well, then dismantle it. I tend to think the Reds should stick with the guy and build around him. In the days when starters were good for 7 innings and an occasional complete game all that was really needed was a fastball closer. Ther Reds have problems after the 7th inning which pont to something other than the starting pitching staff..
By Goldielocks
September 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Link to this
Send him to the barber and then bring him back.
By me
September 15, 2010 1:57 PM | Link to this
Obviously, you keep Bronson. He is your opening night game pitcher! Of course he can’t be your opening day pitcher, and apparently never will want to be. Not because he pitches better at night, but, somebody has to be available to ride in the corvette for the openening day parade!
By Darke
September 15, 2010 1:48 PM | Link to this
I would keep Bronson, look at this year, two of the opening day five spent a lot of time on the DL, they had the depth to cover them. I will say that Harang will not be back though.
By StuttgartTim
September 15, 2010 1:46 PM | Link to this
Absolutely exercise his option! He is Mr. consistency, maybe not start to start, but as you said Hal, 15 wins, 200 innings and no DL. It’s a no brainer IMO.
By Mike-Cinci
September 15, 2010 1:02 PM | Link to this
I would keep Bronson and try to sign him for a couple years beyond next year but Bronson may want 3 or 4. Not many are as durable as he is. On attendance I think StL, Chi, Milwaukee, and Houston all benefit from a much higher season ticket base than the Reds. Each of them sells between 25,000 to 30,000+ season tickets. I bet the Reds are around 12,000 to 13,000. The Reds have gradually lost season ticket holders over the losing seasons. They need to get those back. It will take time as someone wrote on here. Sadly it won’t be easy and it will take more than one good season. The lousy economy does hurt too.
By David
September 15, 2010 12:49 PM | Link to this
Of course you bring Arroyo back. He is the veteran anchor that the team needs for a young pitching staff. And he always shows up.
By Steve F
September 15, 2010 12:07 PM | Link to this
13 million is a lot for a first place team that only draws 12,000 in September and has some of the cheapest ticket prices in MLB. But Bronson is worth every penny.
By rob
September 15, 2010 11:48 AM | Link to this
The attendance, aside from the economy, has to do with baseball selling it’s soull to TV. Opening Day used to be the only home game we could watch at home. Now they are almost ALL on. Plus you have the sportsbars.
By Kilroy
September 15, 2010 11:05 AM | Link to this
What does WWE outdrawing Reds say about this town? It says the WWE is here 3 times a year and the reds around a hundred. If you are going to catch the WWE you have a few dates to catch. Did the WWE outdraw the Reds one night? sure but don’t be a fool and think more Cincinnatians have attended WWE than the Reds. The reds draw about 2.5 million tickets a year. It’s apple and oranges to compare one night of RAW vs the Reds.
By RRF
September 15, 2010 10:48 AM | Link to this
Let me see, Nascar draws generally over 100,00 fans per race in most venues; the best NHL teams fill hockey arenas; NFL teams generally fill their stadiums, WWE (formerly WWF)fills the areana in most major cities. Whats the common denominator? Nascar crashing into each other, NHL players crashing into each other, NFL players crashing into each other and WWE wrestlers crashing into each other. Fans love crashes, so maybe the Reds should crash into the visiting players more often! Oh yell that happened earlier this year (the BP “I hate the Cards” incident) and we still can’t draw fans. Sorry, I was wrong, crashes isn’t the answer. Has to be the price of tickets, parking, hotdogs, beer, and apple pie.
By bob
September 15, 2010 10:13 AM | Link to this
Arroyo has a quality that spells “winner”. No big fastball, but the whole idea is to fool the batter and win. His arms are small, but they get the job done. How about Greg Maddox?
By indygeo
September 15, 2010 9:37 AM | Link to this
I agree. Keep Arroyo. His consistency is amazing and he’s a nice change to throw at a team the game after a harder thrower like Volquez or Cueto (let alone if they have to face Chapman in the 8th after trying to adjust to Bronson’s slow stuff). Hard to believe but $13 million isn’t that much for a pitcher who wins 15+ games/200+ innings a year.
By oldtimer
September 15, 2010 9:10 AM | Link to this
It’s a no-brainer about attendance being down: It’s the ECONOMY. Many of us would love to be there, but we just can’t scrape up the extra bucks. It takes all we make just to keep a roof over our head and food on the table.
By null
September 15, 2010 8:42 AM | Link to this
AW C’MON HAL…DO WE REALLY WANT THE WWE CROWD GOING TO GABP? THEY’D GO ONLY TO WONDER BY THE THIRD INNING IF WHAT THEY WERE WATCHING WAS FAKE.
By Bargain Basement Arroyo
September 15, 2010 8:24 AM | Link to this
For $13, you might want to clone him several times. For $13M just the one copy will do - KEEP HIM!
By justme
September 15, 2010 8:22 AM | Link to this
“Frequently asked question: Should the Reds pick up Bronson Arroyo’s $13 option for next season?” For $13? Of Course! :)
By John G
September 15, 2010 8:18 AM | Link to this
Yes, bringing Bronson back is a no brainer. You still have to wonder if the Reds will do it. Attendance is off because it was a school night and, more importantly, the Reds have screwed their fans with lousy teams for so many years. Die hard fans left and young people don’t care about baseball anymore. This same principal will soon bite the Dragons in the rear end and they will be giving tickets away.
By C K
September 15, 2010 8:05 AM | Link to this
Hal… The wrestling fans came from Kentucky and east Dayton. Not your mainstream Reds fans who were home helping Johnny and Sally with their school homework or taking them to soccer practice and violin lessons!
By rpbanzai
September 15, 2010 7:31 AM | Link to this
The decision to bring back Arroyo is a no brainer. His calm, steady demeanor, his consistent 15 win seasons, his 200 innings each year, his lack of trips to the DL make picking up his option the easiest decision for the Reds to make this offseason.
By LW
September 15, 2010 3:30 AM | Link to this
I live in So. California and have been a Reds fan all my life. When ever the Reds are @ Petco Park or Dodger Stadium we attend at least one game per series and we go to about 10 Angels games a yr. I’ve been back home, (Louisville) 2x this summer and saw 2 Reds games while in town. What is the deal w/ this town? Can’t believe pro wrestling is more important than the Reds, making a World Championship run. It made me really sad to see so many empty seats when we hit all those bombs Monday night, and later learned it was the smallest crowd of the year??? Good lord. I guess people don’t understand, or care that higher attendance = more $$ to spend on good talent. Or quite simply, we only have about 25,000 fans that truly love going to ballpark regularly. I would like to see more fans from Louisville go to games also, which is maybe more of a PR thing…We should have MC Hammer do more concerts or have 81 bobble head nights….However, Castellini and Co. will get the Park rocking for the playoffs, and when GABP is filled it is awesome and so loud. Fans might just be saving their ticket $$ for the playoffs, sure hope this is the case….I wish one day Marty will announce this on the broadcast, “Sorry for those of you headed down to the ballpark today, we are sold out AGAIN, for today’s titanic struggle”…..Great article as usual Hal, Go REDS!
By Seneca
September 15, 2010 2:46 AM | Link to this
Attendance at games is down in many stadiums. TV viewership is apparently way up with some of those teams. Cincinnati fits that pattern according to reports. Myself, I’m broke… had a great job until the economy tanked. Right now, I’ll pay for cable and watch the games on TV… which I do practically every night. Times are changing, too. Couple the big HD screens and surround sound with a hectic family schedule and you’re going to get lower attendance. And you can’t point to the WWE event: It probably wasn’t broadcasted live and it is a rare event in Cinti.
By Dave
September 15, 2010 2:44 AM | Link to this
What’s it say about this town? It’s embarrassing. They couldn’t even sell out the Pete Rose game. St. Louis sells out every night. They get much bigger crowds in Houston and Milwaukee and those teams are lousy. This year’s Reds team is exciting, they’re in first place and yet hardly anyone shows up. I hate to say that the Reds have bad fans, but look at the numbers…Okay, I’ll be nice. The Reds have good fans, there are just fewer of them.
By 909Reds
September 15, 2010 2:18 AM | Link to this
Bring Bronson back!! Veteran presence, he’s a gamer, and very consistent. 15 wins for these past few Reds teams, with half of the games at GABP, is nearly equivalent to a 20-win season.
By Michael in Singapore
September 15, 2010 1:32 AM | Link to this
Overall I think the Reds need to go with pitchers who can throw ground ball outs. Arroyo gives up too many homeruns in hitter friendly GABP but hasn’t pitched all that bad and probably should have more wins with better bullpen support. I say sign him- he’d be a good 4 or 5 starter.
By steve
September 14, 2010 10:59 PM | Link to this
I have heard this discussion all day long on 700 wlw. I attended the game on Sunday, have missed less that 30 INNINGS of Reds games on the radio, TV or at the stadium this year. I drive 2 hours both ways when I attend. I have no interest in watching the last place team of the left hand coast play on Monday night. I suppose that is a reason why there were so many watching wrestling next door. It had more excitement than what I discribed…It was a great game to listen or watch on MLB, besides they get revenue from MLB so it was not a total loss.
By steve
September 14, 2010 10:54 PM | Link to this
Attendance, most have no connection to the D backs. Not many could tell you three players that play for them. Different time zones do not make a rival..I attended Sunday with 8 members of my family and a one hour drive on both ends. I have missed less that 30 INNINGS of Reds games this season. Bottom line is you could have given away tickets for the D backs and I would have listened on the radio. Just no interest unless it is the Giants, Dogders, Rockies or Padres if they are from the west coast.
By Clem
September 14, 2010 10:32 PM | Link to this
I am writing in to complain about management not being willing to pay for a winning team. John didn’t want to hear it, so I hope he wasn’t listening.
By Reds Fan
September 14, 2010 10:29 PM | Link to this
I think the attendance issue is more about building back up the fan base and one year doesn’t undo so many straight years of below par play. It will take time, but if the team keeps winning more than it loses - a new generation of fan base will develop. Management asked us for many years to “be patient.” Now we need to ask them to return the favor!
By Slightly Right
September 14, 2010 9:35 PM | Link to this
We fans have waited far too long for a winning season. For the first time in years the Reds have had great depth in pitching, and its working. I’m not privy to the financial workings in the Reds organization, but I hope they keep Bronson Arroyo. He is a 15 game winner,with a chance to maybe win even more. Keep him, its a No Brainer! I also can’t believe the fans booed Cordero the other night. Most pitchers have let pitches get away from time to time. At least it happened while the team had a rather commanding lead in their division. I think Clay Carrol led the national league in saves in 1972 with about the same amount that Cordero has right now.
By mark
September 14, 2010 9:17 PM | Link to this
Hell Yes keep him!!!
By W.Va. Fan
September 14, 2010 9:17 PM | Link to this
In today’s market, Bronson Arroyo is a bargain. Yes - 100% - keep him. He may get 17 wins this year, pitch 220 innings and he is a leader. You need a veteran like him in the rotation. Get rid of A. Harang and his huge waste of a contract, but keep Bronson !
By WillBill
September 14, 2010 7:44 PM | Link to this
BP has a sore fingernail and trusty dusty wants to give him a nite off. I realize that players are grossly underpaid after all they have to work 9 mos out of the year for mere chump change $$$$$$$$$
By Mike-Dayton
September 14, 2010 7:26 PM | Link to this
Actually if “playing ball” is a qualifying mark, then I am an expert - I was All-City in baseball, played in college and over the last 25 years, I have played a couple thousand softball games - so there you go, according to the rules, I am an expert. So bye Bronson.
By Get Real
September 14, 2010 7:07 PM | Link to this
That’s right … only someone who “played ball” knows how blog about baseball. Grow up.
By TYGO
September 14, 2010 6:34 PM | Link to this
No Brainer. Without a doubt, the Reds need Bronson. He has an incredible work ethic, an amazing attitude, the ability to lead by EXAMPLE. Mike obviously has never played ball nor understands the value of a veteran with the determination and consistantcy of Arroyo. There is a lot of salary that can be dumped after the season is over. Arroyo is the Ace of this staff and has been for several years. I want him to retire as a Red. He’s got big cajones and NEVER makes excuses.
By Mike-Dayton
September 14, 2010 6:10 PM | Link to this
Hal - you wrote … “True. But he (Arroyo) needs to be one of those five to provide that veteran leadership, a guiding light.” —- that is not worth $10-$12 million and that is also why the Reds’ have coaches … and “that veteran leadership” is overrated and assumes there are no other veterans in the clubhouse and therefore Arroyo is the only person who can guide a younger pitcher. At $72 million team payroll, the Reds cannot afford to tied 15% of it in Arroyo …
By Mike-Dayton
September 14, 2010 6:07 PM | Link to this
Hal - you wrote … “True. But he (Arroyo) needs to be one of those five to provide that veteran leadership, a guiding light.” —- that is not worth $10-$12 million and that is also why the Reds’ have coaches … and “that veteran leadership” is overrated and assumes there are no other veterans in the clubhouse and therefore Arroyo is the only person who can guide a younger pitcher. Atr $72 million team payroll, the Reds cannot afford to have 15% tied up in Arroyo …
By John
September 14, 2010 6:06 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to here anyone complain anymore that management won’t spend the money to field a winning team. Why should they? If people won’t even come to see a first place team in September.
By daddy
September 14, 2010 5:49 PM | Link to this
Someone said it’s because the kids are ack in school. I looked around last nite and ther were plenty of kids.It’s a shame that more people don’t come to the games. We park for free or $2.00 at the most,buy a $5.00 ticket.bring our water and food. Have been there 60 times this season.