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Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy has retired from the Dayton Daily News after covering the Cincinnati Reds for 37 years. Hal's blog, though, will continue to be a must-read for Reds fans. He'll share his thoughts on the team this season and will file updates from Great American Ball Park. You also can catch Hal in print every Sunday in his popular Ask Hal columnHome > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2011 > June > 19 > Entry
Bronson Arroyo: No. 1, ace, stopper
CINCINNATI — Some fans insist the Cincinnati Reds are helpless without a No. 1 pitcher, without an ‘ace,’ without a stopper.
Permit me to introduce you to Bronson Anthony Arroyo of the Key West, Fla. Arroyos.
Pause here to permit a question: Do all you fans who want to the Reds to pound the pavement in search of a No. 1 pitcher consider Chris Carpenter of the St. Louis Cardinals a No. 1 pitcher?
Sure you do, despite his record this year.
So consider this. Since 2004 when Carpenter became a starter with the Cardinals, he has put together 111 quality starts.
How many do you think Arroyo has in the same period? Well, after Sunday’s eight innings of one-run pitching in a 2-1 victory over the Toronto Blue Jays, Arroyo has 150.
Say hello to Mr. No. 1, Mr. Ace, Mr. Stopper.
AFTER THE RED were on the brink of getting swept, Arroyo stepped to the forefront — eight innings, one run (a home run), five hits, one walk, five strikeouts.
This comes from a guy who pitches 200 innings every year, wins 16 or 17 games and has never missed a start in his major-league career.
If that isn’t a No. 1, then somebody tell me what the guy has to do to be a No. 1, other than throw 98 miles an hour, which isn’t going to happen. Ever. In fact, the home run he gave up in the fifth inning to Adam Hill was a 71 miles an hour dangling participle of a curveball.
Arroyo, though, kind of agrees with some fans that he isn’t a No. 1, isn’t an ace, isn’t a stopper, despite the facts.
“Ah, honestly, I wouldn’t say I’m a No. 1,” he said. “The closest thing we have right now to No. 1 is Johnny Cueto. What I mean there is a guy who can go out there, without his Grade A stuff, and still give teams fits because he throws hard. And he’s dialed in right now.”
Of himself, Arroyo smiles and says, “If I feel good on certain days and get in a groove, I can feel like I’m a No. 1 at times. But across the board, I’m going to be consistent. But I have a lot of innings on my arm so I’m not what I was maybe four or five years ago.”
So was Sunday one of those days when he felt like a No. 1?
“When you leave the ball game after eight innings and it is 2-1 you feel like a No. 1,” he said.
MANAGER DUSTY BAKER probably said it best when he said of Arroyo, “You know how Bronson gets? He can go four or five starts and get shelled, then he can go seven or eight in a row and nobody hits him. It’s all about location, velocity and feel.”
When Baker mentioned location, he meant the location of Arroyo’s pitches, but he could have meant the location of the games, too.
The last two times Arroyo faced the Blue Jays, they were in Toronto’s Rogers Centre and he gave up 17 runs and 19 hits in only 4 2/3 innings.
This one was in Great American Ball Park — location, location, location.
“Everything is about location and off-speed,” said Baker. “He had great location. Nothing was over the heart of the plate. It was inside or outside or up or down.”
Of Arroyo’s status, Baker said, “He is the stabilizer of the staff, a guy to stop losing streaks.”
ARROYO GAVE up the leadoff home run to Hill in the fifth to fall behind, 1-0. Disaster lurked when the next two Jays singled to put runners on first and third with no outs.
But John McDonald tried a suicide squeeze bunt and pushed a pop-up between first and home that Reds first baseman Joey Votto snagged on the run, then fired to third base to double up Juan Rivera.
On the bench, Baker said to his team, “That was a game-saver right there. It was a foiled squeeze and ended up being the run that might have beat us right there. You need some breaks like that to win.”
The Reds had two on with one out in the eighth, a chance to post some insurance runs, but Miguel Cairo struck out, Fred Lewis was walk d to right.
That left it at 2-1 for closer Coco Cordero after Arroyo vacated after 103 pitches.
“You’re always nervous with a one-run lead when they have their three best hitters coming up in Jose Bautista, Adam Lind and Aaron Hill, who had already hit a home run,” said Baker. “Two swings of the bat and they could have the lead.”
But Cordero got Bautista on a hard liner to second, got Lind on a grounder to first and ended it by getting Hill on a fly to right for his 15th save in 17 opportunities.
Baker gave third baseman Scott Rolen off on Sunday and not only put Cairo at third base, he put him in Rolen’s No. 5 spot in the batting order — another fortuitous move by Baker, who constantly tugs the right levers.
With the Reds down, 1-0, in the sixth, Joey Votto popped a one-out single, one of three singles that stopped his 0 for 10 skid.
With two outs, Cairo drove one into the left field seats against Carlos Villanueva, who was 4-0 coming into the game.
That made it 2-1 and it stood.
“Rolen is feeling pretty good, swinging good,” said Baker. “I didn’t want him out of there, but I want him in there Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday against the New York Yankees. We have an off day Thursday. I’m just trying to keep him so I can keep him (in the lineup).”
And of Cairo, he said, “That was so real big, especially since I had him in the fifth spot today, the best lineup I could come up with today, and today it worked big-time.”
MANAGER DUSTY BAKER hopes what Aroldis Chapman did for the Class AA Carolina Mudcats Saturday was something he can repeat — one more time in the minors and then for the Reds.
Chapman pitched two perfect innings — no runs, no hits, no walks, three strikeouts. His rehab time runs out in two days, so what’s ahead?
“We haven’t made a decision yet,” said Baker. “What Chapman did Saturday is what I asked him to do. I wanted him to finish strong and earn his way back here. Pitch your way back and don’t use your name to come back, pitch your way back.”
Baker said it is likely Chapman will pitch one more time in the minors, either Monday or Tuesday, before his rehab time expires.
“We’ll see,” said Baker. “If he’s Chapman before the wild streak, we can use him big-time. That would set us up big-time.”
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By usannotouro
June 23, 2011 12:26 PM | Link to this
Thank you for information!
By slag
June 21, 2011 7:57 AM | Link to this
know it all, It’s not like Stubbs does not know where votto is hitting..He’s only 2 batters away from him…If he ain’t getting on base now, and refusing to bunt, then it ain’t working. It’s a f**ked up lineup the reds have..No leadoff hitter, a #2 hitter that swings from his heels, an inconsistent Bruce, nobody protecting votto and bruce, and 2 automatic outs in your 8 and 9 hitters….It’s a disaster, and was one going into the year. I wanted them to get either Kemp from LA or Drew from AZ in the offseason. The brain trust of this team also knew it but they don’t care about 2011 as 2012 is their real goal.That’s already been talked about. The problem is in sports is you don’t choose when to be good, it chooses you. Ain’t no guarantee in this crazy game when your chance for greatness will come..Bring Sappelt up from AAA and move Stubbs to the 5 or 6 hole NOW!!!!
By Wrong Lineup
June 21, 2011 12:17 AM | Link to this
To me what doesn’t make sense is playing the same lineups which are not producing, when other alternatives are there:Lewis, LF/Heisey,CF or RF/Votto/Rolen/Phillips/COZART,SS/etc., etc./ Play Stubbs and Bruce, when Heisey is elsewhere.I can see everyones points; but wish they’d try mine with Lewis,etc.
By Colgar
June 20, 2011 8:27 PM | Link to this
Mike Morelli: You missed the point again. Arroyo NEVER missed a start. Wins 15 games and pitches 200 innings a year. He is one of five pitchers to do that over the last three seasons, the others are aces and none of them are Carpenter. Aces DO NOT miss starts. That is Hal’s point.
By KNOW IT ALL
June 20, 2011 7:25 PM | Link to this
I knew it, as I said on my previous post. Did not like that Travis Wood has the sub start tonight, 1st inning and behind 4-0. Too much pressure on Wood to be given the start. This game will be a disaster….
By KNOW IT ALL
June 20, 2011 6:28 PM | Link to this
Our starting pitcher has a stiff neck today so won’t be pitching. I think Wood is now pitching tonight. Don’t like this at all….I just saw the video of Albert Poopoo hurting his forearm which now is broke which he will be out 4-6 weeks. Now Mike go ahead and cry some more. I know the reason St Louis wont win anything this year is too many injury’s to their stars. So I said it for you and there is no need for you to post comments anymore this year because we already know what they will say. Looking forward to hearing from you in spring training. Oh by then Poopoo will be with the Yankee’s. Enjoy the winter break
By KNOW IT ALL
June 20, 2011 4:50 PM | Link to this
SLAG I agree with what you are saying but Stubbs is a baseball player and a professional. Yes he needs to bunt more maybe with Votto on his tail he will get on base knowing that he may score since Votto is a great hitter. It can’t be any worse than the batting order the last three games against Toronto? HAL - Can you do anything about the shaded area that prevents us to type in our comments for about 5 mins before it opens up for access??????????
By slag
June 20, 2011 4:22 PM | Link to this
know it all, You can’t go into an AB trying too hard. That’s a recipe for disaster. Stubbs has a real issue//problem and until it’s corrected then it will continue……That’s why most guys play to the back of their cards and there’s 50 rounds in a draft because the failure rate is thru the roof…It’s one thing if he was a BB player and needed to work on his left hand a bit but this is a sport that can eat you up…What he should do and I have no doubt it would make a better player/hitter is to bunt the ball and getting on base will take care of itself. It will also give him more confidence..
By KNOW IT ALL
June 20, 2011 2:28 PM | Link to this
Here is some thought, Stubbs lead off, Votto 2nd, Phillips 3rd, Rolen clean up? Stubbs may try alittle harder to get on since Votto whom just about puts the ball in play everytime with speed on 1st if Stubbs gets on. Then Phillips and Rolen to follow. Then you slip Bruce in there hoping he will light up again. As for Phillips I don’t think the Reds are going to be able to afford him. You guys say he is cocky, smart a*s, cry baby, etc. But he is the best 2nd baseman in baseball and there isn’t a team out there that would not love to have him including St Louis. Reds need a sweep agains the Yankees and pitching is excellent right now so alls we need is an adjustment in the batting order and what I suggested I think would work. Any thing is better than what Baker is putting out there now…
By slag
June 20, 2011 1:14 PM | Link to this
Phillips is a cocky player and he has to tone his emotions down. When DB bats him 4th BP feels the need to become just that, a 4 hitter. Then Baker moves him to #2. This goes back and forth and would be difficult for anybody let along a super ego kid like BP that needs to be the focal point. This is all on Baker as he’s clueless about a lineup but, again, only has who he has to work with. They did nothing in the off season to get a power hitter or a LO hitter so now you have the mixing and matching. Just keep BP in #2 spot and don’t move him. He’ll get back that contact swing quicker..
By bob
June 20, 2011 12:45 PM | Link to this
Is it only me or is Phillips dragging and moping around, late on almost every swing. Did it occur when he stated talking big bucks and the Reds don’t have them. Arroyo once again proved that many of the best pitchers of all time never owned a radar gun. When a pitcher is blessed with speed, that all he hears his whole life and never learns to pitch. I keep watching and never heas of the bad trade of Paul Konerko. His lifetime batting and fielding averages are almost HOF. Until the Reds get consistent hitting; pitching can’t win enough to win overall. There are too many wild swingers and to this point, I see no evidence of improvement. Bruce went on a May spree and everybody went nuts. Now, June looks like April. Gomes and Stubbs are still in the Apr. mode.
By Mike-Cinci
June 20, 2011 12:29 PM | Link to this
to Wrong Lineup Again, I like Lewis too. He looks like a hitter. Unfortunately he has not seized a job with any team so far and it looks like the same thing is happening with the Reds. Bruce is a very streaky hitter with ongoing problems hitting lefties and also loving to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. Baker has to play Bruce. He just signed a $50 million+ contract. Jocketty would kill Dusty if he did not play him. Sometimes managers have no good choices. They have to work with the roster the GM gives him and play the guys the GM wants on the field. The big money everyday guys(Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Rolen) will keep their roles no matter what. Bruce is still young so there is hope he will become more consistent. Just 3 weeks ago fans had him the MVP. Regarding Gomes the only pitchers he consistently hits are lefties and that takes playing time away from Heisey. As someone said “as long as you have 3 left fielders you have no left fielder”.
By DD
June 20, 2011 12:25 PM | Link to this
We have 3 backup outfielders competing in left. Lewis has had 500 ABs in a season once, and struck out 124 times. Hardly lead off #’s. And, he’s never hit double digit HRs in his career to compensate for his Ks - something Stubbs, Heisey, Bruce, and Gomes can do. Heisey hits .205 as a starter. Gomes is streaky. Stubbs was a #1 draft pick that the Reds are committed to. Rightfully so, he’s only going to get better just as Bruce is. But, he’s no lead-off hitter. He’s there by default. Maybe Cozart or Sappelt can fill that role in the future? Maybe, but we’ll have to go thru the same growing pains with them as we did with Bruce and are doing now with Stubbs. Right now, I’d start Gomes who has hit the ball well in June (Gomes .346 in 31 ABs, Lewis .296 in 35 ABs, and Heisey .250 in 28 ABs) with Lewis getting spot duty. Heisey and Lewis bring something to the table Gomes doesn’t - pinch hit and defensive replacement ability. Gomes is 0 for 12 with 9 Ks as a pinch hitter for the year, Heisey is one of the best pinch hitters in the game, and Lewis is the only LH bat off the bench. If Gomes is hot (as he is), there is no reason to make a lateral move (at best) in LF and weaken the bench at the same time. Doesn’t make sense.
By Wrong Lineup again
June 20, 2011 10:45 AM | Link to this
I pretty much agree with you Mike-cinci. You are generally right on it. I especially agree with dropping Stubbs in the lineup; and by doing so, then playing Lewis in left, as a leadoff hitter, because of his contact and strike zone awareness seems to me, a no-brainer…then, I would have Heisey playing all three outfield positions, relieving all three regulars,EVERYDAY! I like Lewis’potential, and this way Heisey gets to play. I cannot believe they keep refusing to do this, especially when Stubbs,Gomes and Bruce are soooo inconsistant.I think Baker’s matchups are simply excuses for not playing people{he doesn’t want to play}, who in my opinion, should be playing more!!!
By slag
June 20, 2011 10:31 AM | Link to this
Easy there Hal my boy…First off, learn the difference between what an ace is and what a quality start is..I’ll give you a hint….An ace is what happens after the definition of what the quality start is..It’s going the distance and getting stronger, consistently, in the 7th inning on and finishing a game. It’s going into a game where the BP knows it basically has a day off that day….While I like BA alot and am glad he’s on the reds staff, let’s not go overboard and tag the “ace” mantra on the guy…CC is struggling this year but he’s been a great great pitcher the past 5-6 years…
By derf0401
June 20, 2011 10:25 AM | Link to this
i agree need to get rid of renteria and give cozart a shot
By Mike-Cinci
June 20, 2011 9:37 AM | Link to this
To WRONG LINEUP AGAIN, I agree Heisey should get more of a shot in LF though I fear neither Gomes. Lewis, or Heisey is the long term answer. The Reds are committed to Stubbs for the long term but unless he cuts down his K’s he is better suited to bat 7th or 8th. Sappelt might be an answer in LF and hit lead-off. The guy is hitting .354 at Louisville. Hamilton is another possibility but he is probably 3 years away and that’s a lifetime in baseball. Cozart is likely the SS in 2012 as Jocketty does not seem interested in moving him up this year. This could change in July because the current production at SS is awful. The word is Cozart can field like Janish but seems to be a better hitter. The key word here is “seems”.
By Florida Buckeye
June 20, 2011 9:33 AM | Link to this
Hey All, interesting conversations today. Two thoughts came to my mind w/r to Pujols and the Cards. First is w/r to his two Gold Gloves: Reputation, and batting skills can readily win a Gold Glove over actually fielding ability…it’s been proven again and again! Secondly, as far as the Cards being a systemically ‘un-healthy’ club. Could habitual steriod and PEDs use have anything to do with it? Once again, history steps in, and Larussa’s teams have always been rife with them…and, they do put undo strains on ligaments, etc., Just food for thought…Go Reds!
By Mike in KY
June 20, 2011 9:11 AM | Link to this
@Mike Marelli: My defense comment had nothing to do with AP’s ability. The injury will move Lance Berkman from right field to first base, which will unquestionably improve the Cardinals’ defense. First it’s a sprain, then it’s a strain, you’d better hope it’s not a ligament tear…you’d be better off with a fracture.
By KNOW IT ALL
June 20, 2011 8:24 AM | Link to this
MIKE MARELLI welcome back, I knew you would comment after your Cardinals finally won a game. You really got smoked by Washington, Pujols wasn’t hurt during that series or the other 7 losses in a row? Anyway please quit crying on your injury’s every team has them. REDS are so close to busting loose, the two losses agains Toronto were strickly pitching duels and lack of offense. The big surprise will be the next 3 games when I really feel we will sweep the Yankee’s amd make a statement. As for Phillies yea they are good and maybe better but if we end up playing them don’t be surprised if the tables are turned this year. Welcome back but cut the tears please.
By Mike Marelli
June 20, 2011 2:10 AM | Link to this
Mike in Ky, How exactly is the Cardinal Medical staff responsible for an errand throw causing a runner to collide with Pujols at first? Would you blame the Reds medical staff for Rolen’s inability to hit the long ball, as he did earlier in his career? It appears you’ve been smoking some of your own Kentucky Blue Grass. As for your comments on Albert’s defense, it also indicates how uninformed you are. Pujos is a two-time gold glove winner at first base. For the sake of the small ‘remaining’ portion of your brain, put the pipe down.
By Mike in KY
June 19, 2011 9:52 PM | Link to this
@Mike Marelli: The only thing Carpenter leads Arroyo in is tears shed and disappointing chats with his son. Eventually that team’s health will quit being an excuse and start being a problem. The Cardinals medical staff is a joke, a point that will be hammered home tomorrow when Mo has to announce that Pujols’ season is over after the MRI. They cannot keep players healthy, they cannot keep players game ready, it has ceased to be “bad luck” and is now proven to be a systemic problem with that organization. But, hey, at least this will get Berkman to first base and might actually IMPROVE the Cards’ defense! Smile real big when the Pirates pass you up for fourth place.
By Mike Marelli
June 19, 2011 9:38 PM | Link to this
Hal, How insightful of you. But you forgot to mention that one minor detail. Carpenter was hurt for nearly all of 2007 & 2008. Those years he made a grand total of 4 starts combined for both seasons. From 2004 to 2010, Carpenter W/L record was 84-33, while Goldilocks Arroyo was 104-79. I don’t have to have a PHD in Mathematics from MIT, to see an overwhelming win % advantage to Carpenter. And if you research the teams won loss % of games started by Carpenter vs. Arroyo, I’m guessing significant advantage again goes to Carpenter. By the way Hal, how loudly was Johnny Gomes singing in the locker room today, upon hearing the news of Albert Pujols’ serious wrist injury? Every starter in the Cardinal lineup has missed significant time this season due to injury. Yet, we’re closing in on the All Star Break, and we still lead your club by 2 games. And lest we forget the cruelest blow of all, which happened on day one of Spring training, that is the season ending Tommy John surgery for Adam Wainright. We’ve disabled Matt Holliday twice and David Freese for nearly 3 months. Kyle Mclellan, Allen Craig, Skip Schumaker, Gerald Laird, & Sanchez have also been disabled for a minimum of 15 days, and in many cases more. Now comes another punch to the gut, with the news of Pujols. Well we can get every player on the team to miss the season, and like Bill Murray so aptly stated in the Movie “Meatballs”, “It just doesn’t matter.” The Reds are ‘perhaps’ the third best team in the NL Central, making the giant assumption the Cardinals could somehow stay healthy. Celebrate all you want, with our misfortunes. Just remember, that Phillie team that trounced you in the postseason last fall, is even tougher this season. They may have a few offensive and bullpen flaws, but they will acquire help at the trade deadline—as they always do, and no club from the Central, regardless of who survives, will get by them.
By Predictors
June 19, 2011 9:30 PM | Link to this
The radio commentators had the Reds nine games back at this point in the season. We have Chapman and Bailey coming back and we’ll be strong. Reds fans are so negative. We have talent and a strong bench.
By Wrong Lineup Can Get Better
June 19, 2011 9:30 PM | Link to this
Perhaps, mike-cinci wants to suggest that winning by one run, is preferable to winning by more than one, with a more productive lineup{what was it 3-4 runs in three days?}—or at least one which has two outfielders playing left and center, at the same time, who more consistantly{than Gomes and Stubbs}actually hit the ball, instead of missing it? Perhaps, having Lewis play left and leading off, and Heisey playing center could, if done regularly,demonstrate to our fearful leader, that there is life after Stubbs and Gomes. I’m not real keen on Bruce, either; every other week he’s in a slump, as well. He reminds me of the monotonous slump of Matt, er,uh Ding-dong.
By Mike-Cinci
June 19, 2011 8:26 PM | Link to this
Let’s start counting dumb moves by opposing managers. Joe pointed out a big one by the Toronto manager(Farrell)…a suicide squeeze with men on 1st and 3rd and no outs. Turned out to be a double play. I’m sure they want Farrell fired in Toronto. I guess “Wrong Lineup Again” does not like either Janish or Renteria as he wants Cozart. He may have a point on that but he missed the important point that the Reds won which is why they play the game. Not sure he would have played Cairo today. Also the “cowboy” wanted Arroyo out in the 7th as he was “obviously tiring”. He could not believe no one was warming up in the bullpen. 6 outs later Bronson left for Cordero after 8 solid innings. Thank goodness the “cowboy” just comments and does not make any decisions. Anyone who thinks Marty, Thom, or the cowboy know the secrets of winning baseball are sadly mistaken. They are just talking heads. They make good money doing this, to their credit, but they make more “eras” (a martyism for errors) than all the Reds combined but they are never called on it.
By Mike in KY
June 19, 2011 6:27 PM | Link to this
@Joe: Yeah, lots of teams get lots of those games every season. Why, just today the Cardinals got a break when Skip Shumacker was thrown a meatball pitch and took it out to right-center field for a walk-off win. @Bob: If you’ve been paying attention to the general health of the Yankees’ pitching staff lately, you’d realize how foolish your odds would be if you were actually brave enough to stand behind your words.
By Wrong Lineup Again
June 19, 2011 6:18 PM | Link to this
Heard a hilarious commentary from Marty on the way home, listening to WLW today:Quote—“That ground ball was JUST out of the reach of Renteria”!hahahahaha—cracked me up. My immediate thought was: “Why is he playing”? And, “What ground ball HASN’T BEEN—just out of his reach”? Bring up Cozart.
By Bob
June 19, 2011 5:53 PM | Link to this
I am giving 10-1 odds on a Yankee sweep.
By Joe
June 19, 2011 5:41 PM | Link to this
A typical Reds get a big break game. Why a suicide squeeze with 1st and 3rd with no outs?
By Randy
June 19, 2011 5:25 PM | Link to this
Great article Hal! Nice stats on Arroyo vs Carpenter. I would say there was nobody that realized that.