By Let's do something!

November 11, 2006 6:38 PM | Link to this

GREAT, do you have anyhthing nice to say, um, ever? I mean, seriously, you have said nothing positive about DPS teachers. Why not congradulate them for choosing such a challenging job?

By Great

November 11, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

I know it was a little “cloudy” but God’s intention means that not everyone is going to be gifted, and they work hard to overcome his/her circumstances. A challenge by God if you will, a strugle to make one better. Parents are the problem. They do not teach kids respect, they think they are being “dissed” (or whatever they say). Bottom line is the teachers in said school district have to rise to the challenge becasue they must have know the situation they were getting into…. but it seems to me these teachers want to behave like Centerville teachers. They are dealing wiht different problems, but they want the same playing field. If you own a business Downtown, you have different risk/customers/etc than if you open the exact same Business in Centerville. DPS teachers want something that is not possible.

By Legion

November 10, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

:) Haha, not all of the kids in Dayton are stupid. A vast majority of them are, but thats true for most of the United States. Of the teachers, you can actually blame a very small fraction of them, because as you put it, people don’t teach for the money. God’s intention? That seems like a serious logic flaw. Since you said it was God’s intention I’m going to assume that you mean that God made people. Why would anyone or anything create something thats inherently stupid?

By Concerned

November 10, 2006 9:56 PM | Link to this

Great - I do believe that Legion said he was a student. He obviously reads the Dayton Daily News, and cares about his teachers enough to comment on this blog. Does that make him stupid?

By GREAT

November 10, 2006 8:57 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry, I also need to blame the parents. Teachers are only 15% of the problem. We have too many loser parents who think trash in their front yard is a nice display of art. CARLA - they are called TYPOS, I do not edit my typing, b/c I am always on the go and don’t have time to edit. Sorry. You must be better than me, and with a name like Carla, well, then you are.LEGION, what is your deal. The kids in Dayton are stupid, the parents are stupid, and you can’t accept the fact that this is the way God intended it to be. I have no kids b/c I have a brain, I don’t have sex with just anyone (to see this action, visit you DPS asap!) You don’t get it - STOP HAVING KIDS - GET A JOB - WORK HARD. Keep it simple!

By Legion

November 10, 2006 7:23 AM | Link to this

As a student, teachers do not have it easy and are vastly underpaid. I observe and that job’s usually a fun slice of Hell in even the best of schools. Oh, and its not teachers preformance thats bad, its people like “GREAT” who spew out mentally deficient children who can’t grip simple concepts no matter how its presented. =)

By concerned citizen

November 10, 2006 7:17 AM | Link to this

Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps all the problems in our school system (low test scores, low attendance, high drop-out rates, disgruntled teachers and administration) may be a symptom of the city as a whole? How can we expect our children to not grow into “thugs” (as one commenter put it) when that’s all they see around them in their neighborhoods? How can we expect teenage girls to not get pregnant when that’s what their mothers did? People who blame the schools and teachers for all the problems seem to believe that if we simply had better teachers, or better buildings for the students, then Dayton would become a beautiful city. Maybe the problem isn’t with the schools. Maybe it’s with all of us.

By Carla

November 9, 2006 7:03 PM | Link to this

You spelled gossip wrong, and you forgot the “y” in they.

By Great

November 9, 2006 5:10 PM | Link to this

The reason I am not a teacher: 1) I want to be proud of my job 2) I want to make more money 3) I don’t want to put up with “unions” or “striking” 4) I want to see results on a daily/weekly/yearly basis 5) I actually want to challenge myself on a daily basis 6) I want to work year round. 7) I dont want to associate myself with people who always complain about actually DOING their jobs. I could go on and on, but teachers seem to love to gosip about students, complain about money, and think they they are smarter and “helping the world.” My view is that the produce uneducated, selfish, and lazy students. Good work!

By lou

November 9, 2006 2:24 PM | Link to this

Great, we have it sooooooooooo easy,why aren’t you a teacher? Can’t cut it, can you. Which school did you work in today. I want to make sure I am there to learn from you.

By GREAT

November 9, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Lou - teachers are over paid, and generally have it way better than those who have to sacrifice, hustle, dodge, convince, help, teach, learn, work, grow in their jobs eveyday b/c they can be fired for no reason. Teachers have it easy. You know it, I know it, everone knows it. They should just get to work and zip it. If my performance was that of DPS teachers, I would have been fired a long time ago. The proof is in the pudding, and Dayton has a bunch of thugs.

By dpsgrad

November 9, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Scott, Since when is leadership in anything NOT about the personal character of the leader(s)? That goes for Enron, the state, the city, the nation. Whatever happened to leaders whose hallmark was humility, reaching out, listening, understanding, pulling together in the same boat, inspiring their troops to follow? Or was that all a myth from re-written history? And since when is “polarizing” an acceptable attribute in our leaders? As for “no selfish motive” for wanting to lead, just look at all the “Queen Bee” fanfare that is involved (again, also true of other areas, esp. City of Dayton). You, the media, feed this unhealthy appetite.

By Let's do something!

November 8, 2006 3:54 PM | Link to this

Scott, If you agree that the current situation is unfair, as most of us do, then would you please write another article about the TEACHER’S opinons on this matter? I truly think that the public should be aware of our opinions, seeing as they have already heard the story from Littlejohn. (This isn’t a personal attak, it is a suggestion.)

By Scott Elliott

November 8, 2006 2:12 PM | Link to this

32 year educator, it did not suprise me that teachers were critical of Littlejohn or felt, as you do, that she doesn’t understand the realities of the classroom. Those criticism have been debated by her detractors and supports before. I was just a little surprised by the heated nature of the comments and how personal some of the criticism were.

By dps teacher

November 8, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Correction: “academiC ladder”

By dps teacher

November 8, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

It’s really very disappointing that this has turned us into fighters, rather than bringing us together in a supportive group. I can rant all day about what I’ve “heard”, but I will only tell you what I KNOW. I have spent time in both Ludlow buildings…and they are both better-furnished than most classrooms and school buildings. My classroom is nice…but only because I have spent $1000’s of my own money throughout the years to stock it, “furnish” it, and make it a welcoming place for my students. I have two young children at home who need clothes and food…which I buy….but those things are always in the cart with something else I need for my room or my students. I spend easily $200 at the beginning of every year to buy supplies for my students because they do not have the money or support at home to buy them themselves. I know that I, like MANY others, spend COUNTLESS hours after school and at home reviewing, grading, planning, and preparing for my students. It is a very hard, demanding, and time-consuming job…but I chose it!!! I tell people that I’m a teacher, and I hear, “Oh, that’s wonderful! Where do you work?” When I tell them Dayton, the standard response is, “Oh…” My family begs me every year to move into another district…but I stay here, because these kids need me, and the rest of the excellent teachers in Dayton. Shame on “Great” for saying such disrespectful things about Dayton teachers when you don’t even have a child…how can you speak on something you don’t know. I was part of the amazing accomplishment of moving the district not one, but two steps up the “academis ladder”, yet the BoE and adminstrators celebrated without me. This fight is not just about money…it’s about fairness and respect! Credit should be given where credit is due…and it has not been dished out in Dayton.

By againstthecontract

November 8, 2006 8:15 AM | Link to this

NancyR the only thing I would add to your demands would be to get our calendar rights back

By mla

November 8, 2006 7:41 AM | Link to this

Well said Lou!

By Lou

November 8, 2006 5:35 AM | Link to this

Great, It is not paid unless you get paid.DUH. Teachers are paid per diem. That means if I am not at work, I am not paid. I do teach someone not to steal, kill, or do drugs, my child. That is my job as a parent not a teacher. Yes great, I am a single parent also. My child lost his father 4 years ago. And yes, Great, I do it myself, no help from you or any other taxpayer. Maybe if you would get involved in your community you would have a valid point. Thank you for not having children, we have enough hate and ignorant people in this world.

By Oldprof

November 7, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this

Somebody in this mishmosh was asking the very relevant question “why does DPS spend for advertising?” Well, it goes like this; our voters have elected legislators and empowered Fordham Foundation wonks who claim that education would be fixed by the silver bullet of business practices; in other words, DPS should be more like Proctor and Gamble. Or Ford. Which means competition and advertising. Higher education now spends more on promotional stuff (marketing, student services, extracurriculars) than on faculty plus libraries—consequences of the same wrong-headed false analogy. Want to fix it? GET DIFFERENT LEGISLATORS! And email Terry Ryan at the Fordham Foundation and tell him to shut up.

By GREAT

November 7, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

Summer……..ahhh, Winter Break, ahhh, Year Around school, many weeks off, ahhhh…… I think we should privative ALL education and get rid of people who get MANY WEEKS OFF PER YEAR and not call it a paid vacation. How about you get a life, teach someone not to kill/push drugs on/rob others. All these years in this GREAT SAFE CITY…….IMPRESSIVE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!

By caroline

November 7, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

To Great: The Dayton teachers are on the whole a group of great, very hardworking, dedicated, and smart teachers. Why are scores lower in Dayton than other districts? It is because of our student population. We teach in the inner city where many students come to school unprepared. The issues we deal with are enourmous—crime, violence, family disfunction, drugs, etc. While we deal with those issues, we are also teaching. I have worked in corporate positions. Yes, I made more money. Why did I change jobs? I wanted to be in a place where I could make a positive difference in the lives of children. When I worked in the corporate world, I worked less hours, I was under less stress, I was able to go to the restroom when I wanted, I didn’t have to worry about stopping fights, having my personal items stolen, or about being threatened by parents—and yes, I got paid more money! I still prefer teaching. However, it is difficult when I have to buy my own books, paper, pencils, etc. I want to be the best teacher I can be, but my district doesn’t repair my room, doesn’t provide me with a/c in August, and doesn’t provide me with a curriculum that aligns with the standards. People who blame Dayton teachers for the problems in Dayton have obviously not worked in the schools. I challenge you to try my job. Come in and sub! Volunteer at a Dayton school. We need volunteers to read with students, improve their math skills, help them with their homework. We volunteer our own time (non-paid) to tutor students after school. So, please don’t call me greedy. Also, please don’t accuse me or my colleagues of being poor teachers when you have no proof. We have an incredible, dedicated teaching staff who manages to inspire kids—even under difficult conditions.

By AnneL

November 7, 2006 9:54 PM | Link to this

‘Taxpayer’you really think so many of us teachers are so upset about money. I can do the math and if I wanted to make real money, I would NOT be a teacher. Honestly, if you look at most of these blogs, you will see a common thread - anger that the Dayton kids have less than what they deserve. I have one sink in my house, Mary, but I don’t ask over 100 children to try to share this one. Despite what some may say about us as a group, I am honored to be a teacher. I thank the parents for sharing their children and I quickly become very protective over my gang. The teachers writing here largely feel the same. We do need to unite, though. Enough of what we don’t want. Teachers - decide what you really do want - keep it simple - 3 tops- and share. I know we are all in this because we feel we are doing important things for children who matter. Let’s see if we want the same things from our contract. So here’s what I want - 1. Not to lose our records days. 2.A one year deal, no raise is fine, let the board explain why they are so shart of money without letting them just use us as a scape-goat to take the blame. 3.For the union to get financial documents and pictures re. overspending downtown and to get this info OUT to the public. Last thing - taxpayers, I do not think you should even consider passing a levy that will cost you more - there is already WAY too much money that is NOT GOING TO YOUR CHILDREN.

By Dayton Teacher

November 7, 2006 9:42 PM | Link to this

Dear Great, Who cares if you have less qualifed teachers? Well this is the attitudde of many parent’s we deal with. This is why we deserve a raise, we are assulted and insulted by “parents” with you lack of appriciation for your own children and for teachers. I should get a big raise because after all, I feed your kids, buy clothes for you kids, buy school supplies for your kids, drive your kid home, provide positive modeling for children, and frankly many times am the only person who provides quality care for your child. I am highly qualified, highly compashionate, and highly deserving of a raise. You don’t care about how qualified a teacher is? That’s down right gross, Do you not want a qualified doctor working on you? You’ll settle for less than qualified, I guess you have this notion because you settled for less than qualified parents. NO ONE wants their child to have less than ideal, less than perfect life. Your statement about not caring about if someone is less qualified is almost as insulting as the DBE offer. PLEASE WANT THE BEST FOR YOUR CHILD WE DO!!

By GREAT: Where do you get the Ego?

November 7, 2006 9:14 PM | Link to this

Clearly you have lost your mind. I don’t even know how to respond to your last rant as it was simply incoherent. Can someone please help me out?

By lou

November 7, 2006 8:45 PM | Link to this

Great, what teacher gets a paid vacation? None that I know of. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Dayton has many very intelligent students. How dare you disrespect my students this way. And yes, we can do the math….save a child, save the world. That’s what we do, 1 student at a time. Get a life.

By GREAT

November 7, 2006 8:06 PM | Link to this

So your went to Columbia and live in Dayton by choice…..you must not be a math teacher b/c you should do the MATH, if you are sooooooo smart then why are the kids soooooooo NOT. If you want the honest truth from people who pay your salary, then there you have it. The teachers complain of too much work - then go get another job with a boss on your back to make sales or meet you dead lines etc…. it the same for everyone who works. I am glad to know that you get more vacation time, better pay and medical benefits and “nice” hours to work all so you can complain. Get new jobs then and let those who understand the pay scale work in these schools. Who cares if they are less qualified, evidently big bad COLUMBIA teachers dont make a difference. That IS MY OPINION!

By GREAT: Where do you get the Ego?

November 7, 2006 7:19 PM | Link to this

You forgot one…4) You: people with negative attitudes who focus on only the bad things. Not to toot my own horn (for purposes of getting the point across), but I for one went to Columbia University for my Master’s Degree. COLUMBIA (not the country GREAT…the school)! The number 9 or 10th ranked University in this country. I’m sorry, but I CHOSE to work in an urban city school district, and so did many other teachers in the Dayton schools. You’re right you mis-spoke. Maybe from now on you should just keep your OPINIONS to yourself.

By Barb

November 7, 2006 6:33 PM | Link to this

There is so much frustration in each and every letter from both viewpoints. Fortunately, or unfortunately I have a child in the district and I teach in the district so I hope I look at this from both perspectives. Even before I taught I would have told you that my 3 children have had some of the finest teachers there are. They were always given extra help, home phone numbers and anything else that would have helped them academically and personally. I think the attack that some of the writers have waged are because they honestly do not know how frustrating it is to work all day and then go straight to a meeting and then bring a couple of hours worth of work home in the evening. As the administration reads more about theory they continue to try new things and not allow anything to have the time to work. Yearly Progress Pro is one example. We have so many things that are half done and when a teacher who has experience tries to give an opinion they are just shot down because the books and the theorists do not agree. How many times do we find things in education cycle back around. I know many people are equating the teacher’s discontent with money and of course like all people we would like more money, who wouldn’t? I feel that a lack of a raise is equated to a lack of respect for what we do and that frustration is coming out now. I know I personally have felt insulted by remarks Gail Littlejohn has made. I always wonder how people can judge what we do if they do not come in and really observe and participate. I know when the Kid’s First team first came on the scene I was very much for them but now I have grave questions. Yes I definitely understand why we would want business people on the board but not people that are making bad business decisions. When Scott says the past purchases are water under the bridge I have to question what is to stop this very thing from happening again. As Dr. Phil says, isn’t the best predictor of future behavior, past behavior? I agree there are some average teachers in this system, some below average and some above average but isn’t that the case everywhere? Aren’t there always people who pick up the slack for those who won’t or can’t. Perhaps a good thing would to see be things through the others perspective. If you have strong opinions and do not teach maybe today should be the day you decide to volunteer or spend some time in the school. If you teach and have strong opinions and your children do not attend this district stop and ask yourself if this would be good enough for your child. One of the major concerns is that how much has been taken away, the calendar and teacher workdays, days to prepare and to grade. Staff development is now on our own time and not during the school day. How many have sat in a hot classroom in August? I know that after a 2 week break I spend a week getting things back to where my students are ready to learn and this now happens 3 times a year. I already work at home and ignore my own kids to provide the best lessons for my students and I know with the time constraints I feel I do just an adequate job. I get my lessons together, pull things off the internet, go to the library and get resources, order pizza for students to bribe them to behave or to complete work. I could go on and on. Most people come home from work and leave the job behind, teachers do not. We have little support from downtown when a parent calls and complains and are told all children deserve and education (which most teachers agree with) but what about the students who are missing out when another child is wasting all the time. Which students are pulled out of DPS and which stay. Is it really bad teachers or a more difficult clientale we work with. Scott told me once that the state expects the public schools to fail. That says a lot but we have made strides and are working hard and perhaps had the Administration shown more support we would not be at this point. Whatever your position I plead with you walk around Ludlow I, Ludlow II and whatever they are working on downtown and then walk around the buildings the children are educated in. Compare the broken desks the kids use to the nice office furniture. What about working computers and laptops for students. Maybe soap in the bathrooms and paper towels. It is so hard to imagine if you do not see it everyday. I know I was appalled when as a parent I had to call the BoE to make sure my high school daughter had doors on the restrooms because the school’s repeated request were not being answered. Please make tomorrow the day you really get involved in what is happening.

By GREAT

November 7, 2006 6:18 PM | Link to this

mla - I DONT HAVE KIDS b/c I DONT WANT KIDS! I misspoke, DPS teachers are LESS than average, that is why they are in the Dayton District rather than a suburb in which the parents and teachers care and work with one another. Face it, the kids are not learning, are doing drugs, commiting crime…… I see it everyday, and who should we blame? In order 1. Parents, especially those who are single and could not make the right choice of getting married and having a support network 2. Teachers - see the kids grades, attitudes, etc. 3. Unions - paying people too much to do average jobs…….

By lou

November 7, 2006 6:10 PM | Link to this

DPS parent, please don’t say that you are just a parent. Without you, the parent, I would not be able to do what I do. Thank You and all the parents, the students and the community. I need and appriciate all of you. I am tires of being the scape goat. We took a pay cut, we took no raises. People please look at the past. Striking is a loose-loose-loose situation. But without good teacher, without teacher respect, the future is at stake, your children deserve it.

By Mary

November 7, 2006 5:05 PM | Link to this

teachermom, I think you need to go back and reread what it is you think I said about teacher pay and median income. One of the recent news stories about our education system is that people with graduate degrees cannot read and comprehend some basic concepts and ideas expressed in written material. I think you can do better than that, and believe you put words in my mouth. That seems to be a problem with these types of debate. It becomes a he said, she said type of thing, or as if we have to choose sides like the yooks and the zooks. I am debating ideas, not trying to make personal attacks. And Lou, as you point out, I also think some public employees are probably overpaid in the name of education including administrators, and college football and basketball coaches. You do not even have to look outside the education field. Public education employee unions should make a case of it. Their extravagant pay compromises what you can get before taxpayers holler ouch. And yes, taxes pay my retirement, too. I’ll still admit there is a problem and a limit to what the overall tax burden can be.

By teachermom

November 7, 2006 4:13 PM | Link to this

Well said, John Todd ! I bet there are two buildings in the district thst DON’T have those problems though ! I hate that people think we don’t care about our students. They are just not AWARE that there was never a “district crisis” until it was time to pay the teachers. We still do/have done our jobs as promised. The Board should have done theirs. A lot of taxpayers are wondering “What about the Students ?” This is such a valid concern, and the teachers are so sickened by the thought of potential cuts. What taxpayers need to do is make sure this never happens again. Hold the Board accountable for WASTED tax money. Advertising- Percy Mack on radio and TV ads. What was spent ? WHY was that necessary ? Top Heavy Administration - entirely “too many chiefs and not enough Indians” Who can go ? Brand new text book series for the district in 2003, and then ANOTHER NEW SERIES in 2005. Let’s not forget supplementals and training for each teacher. Initiated by Stacia Smith, why did we need new books AGAIN just 2 years later ? Waste ! Baldridge Business Model for School School Improvement- how much per pupil has been paid out to Jim Shipley & Associates for training & materials ? The program was what Mrs. Littlejohn explained to the paper as taking up a lot of the budget. Why couldn’t we have chosen a less expensive reform model ? Was it really worth it ? Lulow I & II- Admin. could have refurbished an older building as the students/staff do. They are no better than anyone else, especially if The Board knew we were going to be facing a financial crisis as Gail reported. WHY DID THIS BOARD CONTINUE TO SPEND ?!! Taxpayers, call for a state audit, not a levy. Get these people OFF the BOARD. It isn’t fair for “some” catering to be reduced in Percy Mack’s office when we might not even have Asst. Pricipals to help handle discipline. I for one think we should just refer the discipline problems “downtown” then as this will be too much. Go to the Board Meeting tomorrow and ask about these things, unless it gets cancelled and rescheduled for 7:30 am on some other day………

By DpsParent

November 7, 2006 4:11 PM | Link to this

I am just a parent of DPS students but, I would think that if my union came to me with a deal the union leadership thought was good enough to call a vote on…. I would think they had the inside information and had done the best they could have under the situation. I have read Scott’s article on the funding issues of DPS. I tend to belive Scott is a very good reporter, and if he smelled anything amiss in what he was writing he would follow up on it. Now as a Parent, and voter, i would support a levey for more money for operations (ie Teacher raises, supply, etc.). I do not like the Teachers of DPS, (who have my support most of the time)beating up on the Supt. and Board members just because they want more money! Do you deserve it? YES! So lets get a contract in place, work toward passing a levey to generate the funds, then go back and DEMAND the raise you deserve. I do not like hearing the Teachers bash the Superintendent!! Frankly we are Lucky that he even wants to be here. I am involved in my child’s school as much as possible and I have been to meetings with Mack. EVERY TIME HE HAS TALKED ABOUT WHAT A GOOD JOB TEACHERS ARE DOING. HE EVEN SAID ONCE HE WOULD PUT ANY DPS STAFF AGAINS A CHARTER STAFF AND WIN HANDS DOWN!!! To me it seems that we have found ourselfes in a position where (as I read in Scott’s article)where the district made some mistakes in spending, but spent more than they planned on putting resources (ie Math & Lit coaches)in the schools. The state of Ohio deciding to keep the money targeted for DPS caused the current lack of funding. If DPS had that money I would hope that would be used for raises for our Teachers. BUT FOLKS THE STATE DID NOT GIVE DPS THE MONEY IT WAS DUE!!!! Let us stop bashing the Superintendent and the elected Board of Education, all of us need to work on the School funding issue! Let us work together and pass a levey (temp fix to the problem) then get the State to fund all School districts they way the Ohio Constitution intended. The burdon on the local tax payers is getting out of hand.

By mla

November 7, 2006 3:47 PM | Link to this

I gotta eat: “Try not to pat yourself on the back too much, mla, no one can be as dedicated as you seem to think you are.” Please refrain from making assumptions about me, and generalizations about teachers (haven’t we already been through this? It’s getting a bit tiresome). BTW, your own insufferableness is beaming with insecurities. Re: “mla, sorry, about the you go girl comment, I misread you.” I forgive you….just don’t let it happen again.

By mla

November 7, 2006 3:25 PM | Link to this

GREAT: Go back and read what I write about my “fight.” You people just aren’t getting the bigger picture here! You pay taxes, but you also send your children to these public schools! And by the way, don’t generalize DPS teachers by saying that they are all average. That may be your opinion, and frankly, it just ain’t right (excuse the incorrect grammar “ashamed teacher”. It had to be said).

By teachermom

November 7, 2006 3:18 PM | Link to this

Mary, I would expect you would come to the defense of the school board. I recall it was your idea to pay teachers based on the median income of households in the district. Was that a joke ? Sounds like a CHEAP BUSINESS PRACTICE to me. Something for nothing . Mrs. Littlejohn spending many years in the classroom as a STUDENT is nothing like spending time in the classroom as a TEACHER, especially in this day & age. If there were any truth to that at all then it would make as much sense to elect former students who had been RETAINED 2-3 times to the Board. Surely you have read this blog enough to know that the majority of teachers who write in feel that Gail Littlejohn has not ever and will never empathize with “the plight of teachers.” As long as we are looked upon as glorified babysitters and not the hard-working professionals that we are by the Business Community (including Mrs. Littlejohn & people like yourself), then I have NO PROBLEM pointing out the lack of experience & school contact by the board. The taxpayers should start DEMANDING an account of how this money was spent and asking WHY the Board has to cut programs/staff and can’t give a reasonable raise before they EVER shell out a penny ! As far as the students and parents are concerned, that’s where you’re wrong, Mary ! I don’t call them “clients,” “customers,” and I am not a “salesperson,” I am a teacher. To most parents I have had so many siblings, cousins, etc., we are an extended family. When they hurt, I hurt, when they laugh, I laugh, just like today when several of us stood there reading your blog……….

By John Todd Jr

November 7, 2006 2:02 PM | Link to this

This is getting way out of hand. This district is in shambles…bottom line. Roofs leak, water fountains don’t work, bugs in the buildings, AC in only in selected places, and lack of proper supplies and teaching materials. I’m still waiting on my math books for my 1st grade class. Maybe Dr. Mack can get them for me on his credit card…HA That’s just what’s going on at my building. Listen, I’m not claiming to be the best teacher in the world, I know that I’m not. I work hard, and put up with a lot of crap from all levels in this district, so I feel I deserve a real raise. If the negotiating team can go back with a decent counter offer, great, if not we need to strike. If we continue to let the board push us around like a bunch of spineless bootlickers, then we will get what we deserve…which is nothing.

By Nancy R>

November 7, 2006 2:00 PM | Link to this

I understand that if the district does not have any money they cannot offer us more then the bonus. But I want that bonus on the salary schedule, I want my records day back. The BOard should not be taking from us when they are not giving much too us. That is why tomorrow I will ask our team to go back to the table and ask for the bonus to be placed on the salary schedule, take back my records day and include bond issue money that can give us a raise when/if the levy passes. I want a guarantee that if the issue passes our raise is included. If we don’t include the wording for a raise then the board will just say again that they don’t have the money. I do not want to strike but I will. Just because we send out team back to the table does not mean that we will strike. Let the board know we are serious by making them negotiate again. I want my records day back!

By lou

November 7, 2006 1:33 PM | Link to this

I am so tired of hearing how you are a taxpayer, Mary. I pay taxes also. Therefore I pay part of my own wages. No matter what job you have we pay your wages also. If you work for GM, we pay your wage when we buy a car. If you work in a service area, I am paying your wage when I use the service. Get real. You are all concerned that teachers are making so much, have you even looked at what Dr. Mack is making? With his benefits he makes 5 times what I make and my education level is not that much less than his, and I bet I put in more hours than he does. How do you like paying those wages?

By i gotta eat

November 7, 2006 1:20 PM | Link to this

mla, sorry, about the you go girl comment, I misread your name as mia. We can (and I do) question other professionals, like my own children’s teachers, lawyers and doctors, ever gotten a second opinion? That is our right. We teachers are in a precarious position because of the way funding is set up for the schools, taxpayers see it as their only way to voice their displeasure over taxes in general. Most people do not have a say in how their taxes are spent, but they have a more direct way of protesting taxes by voting against school levies, and schools are the governmental entities that have the most to lose when their tax revenue is cut. Hopefully the legislature will do something right when we get a new governor. PLEASE VOTE!!!! Everyone thinks they are an expert about schools because everyone has gone to school (sorry more generalizations) which stands to reason that most teachers consider themselves even more qualified than anyone else because they work in a school, which makes us insufferable at times. Try not to pat yourself on the back too much, mla, no one can be as dedicated as you seem to think you are. And yes I doubt lemmings (or sheep for that matter) worry about “the ongoing trials and tribulations of education” but you seem those placed pretty squarely upon your shoulders. Try not to shrug, Atlas.

By Oldprof

November 7, 2006 1:05 PM | Link to this

MLA, did you ever meet the “ad hominem attack” fallacy in your college education courses? Actually, I’m surprised that Scott let through that canard about Iraq. I will be ready to criticize those who deserve it, and yes there are too many administrators in Dayton and in fact in every school district—thanks to legislation that mandates so many of them. I happen to know that the greatest monetary mischief is coming from Columbus, and if you want long-term change you will level your sights at the superintendent responsible: not Percy Mack but Susan Zellman. Not Littlejohn but Gunlock. And in particular, the legislators who continue to flout the law regarding school system funding. Short-sighted lashing out at the most convenient target isn’t likely to yield satisfying solutions. It’s regrettable that so few here are willing to educate themselves on these issues.

By mla

November 7, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I gotta eat: 1)Crazy: not meant to be taken literally. 2) YOU may not question other professionals, however, you still pay them their desired pay. The public does question how much teachers, as PROFESSIONALS, do make, and they are able to make noise about it. Also, by hiring new teachers (no offense new teachers, I think you’re great!) all of time, instead of keeping more seasoned teachers with higher salaries around, makes the district quite inferior. 3) Stop generalizing everyone by saying that they want to strike. I never said that I wanted to strike. Please go back and read what I wrote about the ongoing fight that I pursue. 5) Regarding, the lemming remark: please go back and read what I wrote about the ongoing fight that I pursue. BTW, I’m pretty sure that lemmings don’t get upset about the ongoing trials and tribulations of education (oh, was that meant to be taken literally?). 6) No, you go girl! (or boy)

By I gotta eat

November 7, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer makes a good point. Forcing the district to give us a bigger raise will not improve the quality of teaching conditions, it will probably worsen the conditions because teachers will probably be cut, along with custodial and support staff. Teaching materials that we are so desperate to get will be even scarcer. How is that an improvement? Just because we want more money, there is no magical fairy that will give it to us, no matter how many temper tantrums we throw. Where is it going to come from? Cut at the top? Okay, there’s a million or so, but don’t complain about having to do more with less. Balance should be the objective here. Too bad it can’t be the way Old Prof fanaticizes about where teachers and educational elite can’t make all of the decisions for everyone, I believe the core reason for having non professionals as school board members is to have check and balance system, it is a basic tenet of a democracy, but Old Prof probably isn’t interested in that. He’d rather have professionals appointed to run the government, as long as they think like him. Those kinds of philosophies should scare us.

By Mary

November 7, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Which begs the question, AnneL, how many working sinks do you have at home. Seriously, I think there is no excuse for students not having a working sink - especially when I read in the paper the state legislature authorized $1 million to upgrade Welcome Stadium and the press box. Priorities, duh? Priorities are what I expect with our tax dollars.

By Great

November 7, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

People question what teachers make b/c we PAY TAXES!… If I think a lawyer or doctor charges to much, I find a replacement. DPS teachers do an average job at best, therefore deserve average pay. The board is a joke. Go strike…….b/c this is in the best interest of everybody. Grow up. If you do not like your pay or job, go to another district. You do not OWN these jobs.

By taxpayer

November 7, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

AnneL, your argument makes no sense. If the teachers insist on a raise when there is no money, that will mean LESS money for sinks and computers for the children you say you care about. Be honest, you are fighting for more money for yourself, not for the kids. You have a conflict of interest between your salary and the kids’ needs for sinks and computers, and that’s why the school board makes the decisions, not the teachers.

By ashamed teacher

November 7, 2006 9:56 AM | Link to this

Anne, I know that our schools aren’t the best right now. That I agree with whole heartedly. I am just upset with the people who are doing nothing but complaining about money. I would support action to get our schools fixed and better opportunity for our children. I just don’t support the anger over money for us. Students should be our number 1 concern :-)

By Terri

November 7, 2006 9:21 AM | Link to this

I will be voting “no” on the contract tomorrow which is not the same as voting “yes” on a strike. I want the DEA to go back with a counter offer that includes a 1% raise -not just a bonus.

By Keith

November 7, 2006 9:20 AM | Link to this

It’s amusing how many people like the mantra “But what about the children” but don’t understand having an out-of-touch administration empire doesn’t help the children. Indeed teaching experience in the board is an asset not a conflict of interest, Mary. People having sat in classes is not the same as having worked in the classroom without the proper support and materials in decaying buildings the schoold admin didn’t maintain but was happy to pick up having the State’s people pay most of the cost of replacement buildings for the City of Dayton. Same goes for having been a parent is basis for knowing how teaching should work as a profession. . . . . . .Most ludicrous example of artificial knowledge of education is having the mayor support casinos because it might give a little scholarship money years from now! Like I’ve said before Wright State has education classes. Spend your own money, get certification, and go teach. Report back in 5 years. . . . .Remember it’s about the children; teachers deserve all materials and working buildings-not just the administration and board members.

By i gotta eat

November 7, 2006 8:54 AM | Link to this

Amen ashamed teacher! It seems that I have tweaked a psyche or two in my ramblings as well. mia, I am sorry that you perceived in my post the implication that you are crazy, however, no where did I say that or do I believe that DPS teachers are crazy. I do believe that this strike business is getting out of hand. And yes, I do question other professionals when it comes to the services I receive from them, especially lawyers and doctors. If I am not happy with a service, I find someone else to do the job, but I don’t settle for an inferior product or service. I research my options and I become informed. Just because I would rather teach my students than strike doesn’t make me a sheep, but if calling me names empowers you, you go girl! And by the way, I’d rather be sheep than a lemming.

By AnneL

November 7, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

To ‘Ashamed Teacher’ I am sorry to hear that you feel as you do. I honestly agree that money is not the issue. None of us went into education for the money and I really couldn’t care less about a raise. I do,however care about my students. I have 30 students in my class and I think everyone of them deserves to have working sinks in the restrooms. My students deserve computers that run everyday. The children in my classroom and in my school are important to me and I will fight whomever I have to fight when I see more and more being taken away from them so that people can sit in nicer offices in some other part of town.

By ashamed teacher

November 6, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

I read these comments and frankly I’m embarassed to read these comments. I can’t even believe that my colleagues are acting and speaking like this. This is the type of thing that I get upset with my students about. I teach them appropriate ways to talk to one another and work through their issues. Talking negatively about each other is not acceptable in my room. Also, this is making the DPS teachers look bitter and down right nasty. I think it’s about time that we start acting like adults and quit with the childish complaining, that gets us nowhere. We shouldn’t even be talking about a strike. We are talking about the future of these children. I know that we might not be treated the best, but talk to many teachers across the country. It’s not just DPS…it’s education as a whole. I didn’t go into education so that I could make money..sure it would be nice to make more money..but talk to anyone on the street, and they’ll tell you they would like to make more money. I think that teachers should quit complaining about what they want and what they have to do and be proud of what we do on an everyday basis. Unfortunately, I think I’m in the minority. But I would also like to say that I will vote to accept the agreement and I will not vote to strike.

By mla

November 6, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

I gotta eat: I acknowledge, but do not agree with, your points of view. I’ll speak for myself when I say, this is the United States of America and as citizens we are allowed to speak our mind and fight for what we believe in. It is no coincidence that many of the teachers in DPS feel that they are “entitled” to a little respect, not only from the Board of Education, but from the public as well. There is no teacher that I know of who is teaching for the money. However, let’s be realistic! Just like you say, “I gotta eat,” I say, “So do the rest of us,” and a raise WOULD be nice in the long run. Let me ask you this: Do you question lawyers when they ask for more money on a case? Probably not. Do you question your doctor on the charges that he/she makes regarding your health? Probably not! What about huge corporations and the CEO’s that run them and this country? Why is it then, that the public questions how much teachers make? When it comes to your children, don’t you want the best (and quite possibly the most experienced) people doing the job? To set the record straight, my fight goes beyond my school, my administration, my Board, and my district. My fight goes to the heart of education, because I believe in the good of education and the wonderful things that it can bring people. Unfortunately, like I have said before, this district and this Board are gravely failing the children, the public and me. In conclusion, I can only say that I feel sorry for you. Sorry that you think that these teachers are crazy for putting up a fight, and one that they believe in. Sorry that you lack the spark and passion, that which creates the very hope in this world. The union didn’t make me, nor did it tell me how to feel or what to believe in. I will continue to fight for what I believe in for the rest of my life, whether it gets me somewhere, or nowhere at all. It is true that I may be a crybaby, but at least I’m not a sheep.

By Mary

November 6, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

teachermom, I do not know if the Board is out of touch with the classroom and lives in an ivory tower. However, you certainly seem to be out of touch with the purpose and needed expertise of school boards if you think the president of a board of education should have to have direct education career experience. Maybe you need to get better informed on the purpose and functions of school boards. If Littlejohn has her law degree, she has certainly spent a lot of time in the classroom as a student, which might be just as enlightening for her position as spending time in the classroom as a teacher. If you expect her to empathize with the plight of teachers and their challenges in the classroom, then you need to also be ready to empathize with board members and students and parents and taxpayers and the challenges they face. You also need to understand the concept of conflict of interest when people from the education field dominate school boards.

By AnneL

November 6, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

First - I wish everyone would stop talking about the building downtown. It is more correct to talk about the BUILDINGS! Most of our parents are unaware that there are TWO plush buildings filled with people who do not work with our children. Next - what do we want from Littlejohn? We want what she promised “Kids First”! Why is it that Oakwood, Vandalia, Kettering, Tipp City, Centerville, and Troy have modest buildings and make sure THEIR STUDENTS get new computers, desks, chairs… but at DPS the people downtown get the money. I agree that a strike is not the way to go. The DEA needs to go back and tell them we will not sign this. If we strike, they will continue to spend money downtown, the children and teachers will still not make real gains, then they will say we need a levy because of the teachers. Isn’t anyone going to get upset that they are going to lay off teachers so that they can make the payment - from general funds- on the offices downtown? This ‘Littlejohn First” reign HAS to end! Finally we cannot blame DDN for favoring the people at Ludlow. How else will they continue to have such good ‘contacts’?

By mla

November 6, 2006 7:38 PM | Link to this

Clearly, OldProf is an apologist for this failed administration, and who, like the folks in the White House, is intent on rewarding failure at every step. And when his arguments don’t make sense, he tries to confuse everybody by citing pointless statistics, or by shifting blame elsewhere. Hey, OldProf, maybe you could get a job running Iraq! They seem to like your kind of people there.

By teachermom

November 6, 2006 7:34 PM | Link to this

Mr. Elliot, I can see why you be a LITTLE surprised by all the Gail Littlejohn bashing. After all, the Board takes EVERY opprtunity to portray itself, especially former atty. Gail Littlejohn as ultra-competent at running a school district. If our recently-elected DEA officers would give a more accurate account and truly REPRESENT to the media how confident we really are about Ms. Littlejohn then maybe you would appreciate our feelings of serious DISTRUST. Having a School Board President who has no experience as an Educator is alarming enough, but having one who discredits their teachers and makes them feel DEVALUED should be criminal. One would think she might like to know what a real SCHOOL was LIKE, but apparently she just prefers offices still(and fancy ones at that !). I have never seen one single board member until I looked on the DPS Website ! These people are very out of touch with the teachers and students. It is NO WONDER they don’t care to cut at the schools first, they can’t relate to what goes on in one ! Hey, here’s a thought…give each Board member an office in a school building and have them be held accountable to volunteer some in their buildings. Sell Ludlow I & II. We might have less of a deficit and the BOE will develop consciences !

By Mary

November 6, 2006 7:18 PM | Link to this

What do people really expect Littlejohn to be to turn a school district around? - A cheerleader - A gushy politician promising and giving everyone what they want. The complaint that she exhibits an attitude “if you are not with us, you are against us” is the same complaint one could level against teachers’ unions. You see this attitude regarding board of education elections and endorsements by unions. So, it seems hypocritical to complain about Littlejohn this way. Once elected, her obligation is to the people of Ohio in an executive role. She is not there to run for Miss Congeniality or be a card carrying union member. Many school boards are dysfunctional because they are not willing to stand up to powerful political forces and do what should be done for the public interest.

By daytondriver

November 6, 2006 6:23 PM | Link to this

One more thing: I think the only reason Scott is a little surprised by the reaction of teachers is that he spends more time at Ludlow talking with the public relations apparachniks than he does with the people in the trenches who do the real work. Nothing personal, just an observation. If 115 Ludlow were struck by lightning and burned down tommorrow, killing everyone inside, the schools would go on operating just fine. Think the same could be said if the opposite were true? The days of public relations personality worship are coming to an end. Thank goodness.

By daytondriver

November 6, 2006 6:20 PM | Link to this

The only thing that would entice Gail Littlejohn and/or Percy Mack into a classroom would be a television camera. The class differential between those who actually do the work, and those who push paper is truly insulting. After all, we all use the same bathrooms and end up in the same condition when this life is over - dead. So if you think that you are somehow above the little people, oh how you will be brought down to reality in the end.

By DPS teacher

November 6, 2006 6:14 PM | Link to this

Here’s a proposition…. why don’t we suggest on Wednesday that the bargaining team go back to the table and tell the board several things: 1) We do not want an open contract wherein we will be setting ourselves up for “less” in the coming year; 2) They can have their one percent “bonus” in exchange for saving 58 teaching positions slated to be cut in January. I don’t want their “blood money!” 3) we don’t accept this contract proposal and it drags out for 30 - 60 more days. We have to remember that the board NEEDS US to support the upcoming levy. Let’s not lose the small amount of leverage we have left! Vote NO on this proposal!!

By Barb

November 6, 2006 5:46 PM | Link to this

Is it true that the Board is really having work done on the building next to Ludlow I and that is why the windows are blocked. That would make 3 administrative office sites in addition to Jackson Center which was also redone a few years back. My son came home today and said his DPS classroom can not have literature books because they do not have enough of them for all the students. Scott I know it would be really appreciated if you could straighten out these perhaps, “misconceptions.” Hindsight would be on the buildings that were purchased in the past and millions were poured into but if they are actually working on a building now what might the public think. I think it says a lot when the people that work for you are asking you to really put the kids first and step down. I am sure Mrs. Littlejohn is considering this as a way to show good faith to everyone. How many times will the state have to chastise DPS for being too top heavy and suggest they need more people who actually work with students. I am sure all the schools would appreciate volunteer help from any of the people who are writing in. How about it Gail a week in an actual classroom, dealing with actual students and not just students on paper. Maybe you will have what it takes.

By Oldprof

November 6, 2006 3:47 PM | Link to this

Hey, strike supporters—answer me this. Votes aren’t counted yet. What will you do if this contract gets accepted by a majority of your members? (If you’ve taken a valid survey of a random sample of your members, please just share the results).

By dan coovert

November 6, 2006 3:47 PM | Link to this

GIVE A COMPLETE EXPLANATION ON WHAT HAPPENS A TO Z IF WE GO INTO STATE RECIVERSHIP IN YOUR COLUME SINCE LITTLESTICK KEEPS THROWING IT OUT IN HER NEWS INTERVIEWS,IF THE STATE COMES IN DON’T THEY START AT THE TOP and elimenate the 5ormore new positions at90,000 and up that was just given out.

By Oldprof

November 6, 2006 3:46 PM | Link to this

Now, there’s a novel idea—term limits for school board members. Let’s parse that one. At present there’s one member who’s been on the board for more than two terms, and he’ll be gone to the state house in a couple of months. Then there will be three board members in their second terms and four in their first (three of them appointed to replacements). So, create turnover where there’s already too much? Not to mention that at the state level term limits are a roaring failure, having turned the administrative staffs of elected officials into the real legislators while the politicians bounce from one office to another (Betty Montgomery will be attorney general again and again, with short breaks to moonlight as auditor or something).

By Nancy R.

November 6, 2006 3:17 PM | Link to this

Angry doesn’t begin to cover it. My decision is made! NO!

By Concerned Teacher

November 6, 2006 3:07 PM | Link to this

If you’re going to post to a public site and claim that you are a teacher, you should use proper grammar to represent the high educational standards that you hold for both your students and yourselves. Your voting public is reading these comments and should be horrified by the lack of spelling errors and grammatical mistakes present in your postings.

By lou

November 6, 2006 3:02 PM | Link to this

Yes, I am angry. I cannot speak on how others see Littlejohn, I can only speak on how she, and the rest of the board, has treated us, the teachers. We supportes her when she ran. We needed new leadership. She made all kinds of promises to us. “When you …”, “If you….”. We have delivered and now it is time for her to deliver.

By mla

November 6, 2006 2:59 PM | Link to this

Hey Scott! Why don’t you write both sides of the story instead of sticking up for the Board all of the time. Littlejohn is a lawyer and can stick up for herself quite well I’m sure…she doesn’t need your help, the teachers DO! This just goes to show how the Dayton Daily News is NOT a fair and balanced paper!

By i gotta eat

November 6, 2006 2:32 PM | Link to this

I am glad to read that Scott clarified some of the misrepresentations that were being bantered about in the blog over the week. Ludlow was a huge mistake but hindsight is 20/20. The marble floors and furniture were already there when the district bought the buildings, just like the elevators and carpeting. It would have been a bad idea if the building weren’t in such bad shape. Thanks Reynolds and Reynolds. Gail Littlejohn is a polarizing figure, much more so since she lost half of her “Kids First” team. I can’t believe that I am about to say this, but her ideas were ok at the beginning but she has lost her vision and becoming much more of a liability for the district. Why aren’t there term limits of Board members? I agree with you Scott that a strike would be a huge mistake and ultimately hurt teachers. DPS teachers are not happy with the “raise” and the tentative settlement but I am hopeful that cooler heads will prevail and the agreement will be ratified. I think the DEA negotiators and leadership have done their best with an impossible situation and I congratulate them. There is no money and complaining about something that happened 5 years ago will not bring that money back. I am sure the Board would love to give us some love by giving us raises but they are restricted by state law in doing so, so their hands are tied. The funding of schools and charter schools are major problems for the district and until the state changes its ways in the legislature, we are stuck at a dead end, so maybe Old Prof should run for the State B of E or the legislature so that he can fix all of education’s and society’s problems. And then after that, maybe he can start on the Ash Borer infestation threatening the Miami Valley.

By DPS TEACHER

November 6, 2006 2:00 PM | Link to this

He** ya, were angry. No, we have not settled,and in case you’re not sure, We will vote down the proposal on Wednesday. Several DPS teachers have already applied at the tempory agencies, Most DPS Teachers have second jobs already, and can pick up hours for the holiday season. Let the School Board come teach. Do they remember where the schools are? They only show up for Photo oportunities. It’s been years since I’ve seen a school board memeber. They only show up when they want something and Hello, this teacher has no more to give.

By Dayton Teacher

November 6, 2006 1:53 PM | Link to this

What ever, the young teachers might cross the picket lines, however they are the ones getting their positions cut. I’m a 15 year employee of DPS and I’m not working for peanuts, I’m willing to strike however long it takes!!!