By Laura

February 29, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Mary: Tyranny would mean requiring all children to participate. Forcing your beliefs on someone else is telling others what they can do when they form a group with like-minded others.

By Mariaaa!!!

February 29, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Laura! For the benefit of Joe Mamma and others, I have been to the National Jamboree. It is an exceptional event for young men. It is held at Ft. A.P. Hill, VA every four years. It’s my understanding that BSA has spent a substantial amount of money (millions) on infrastructure at the Fort. This infrastructure is used by the military and BSA and represents improvements not paid for with tax dollars. In many ways, not to be listed here, the military has actually benefitted from the Jamboree being held at A.P. Hill. In my view, BSA has not gotten a free ride from the government. BSA has, in fact, “paid it’s own way” which is a value that is encouraged with the Scouts. It’s also important to realize that all citizens; you, your neighbors, your families, and those you don’t know, WHETHER IN AGREEMENT OR NOT with the federal governments’ stand on gays, ARE ALLOWED to make use of public services and facilities. All citizens are allowed to drive on public roads. Individual citizens, private groups, churches and civic organizations, all with different values, regularly make use of National Guard armories, town squares, state and national parks, and, yes, military bases. None are questioned about their stand on gays and denied use of these public facilities although there are many who would deny Scouts this right (specifically Ft. A.P. Hill) even though Scouts pay for usage like everyone else. Even though the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the BSA. Merit Badges are updated on a regular basis along with their relevance to today’s Scout. Occasionally some are deleted while adding new ones. On the subject of religion and the BSA. BSA does offer a religious award to Scouts. It is not a requirement for Scouts to complete the award and is not a merit badge. It is voluntary. Over 35 religions are offered for the Scouts to choose from and is a very diverse list. Scouts usually pick their own faith to study and can do so with a religious leader from within their faith. According to BSA, in the troop setting, religion is to be approached in a very generic way. “A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and REVERENT.” At least the Boy Scouts of America stands by a set of values that it believes in and doesn’t waver every time the wind’s of political correctness change direction. How many other groups for young men are there that can say that? Scant few. As our society continues to degrade, the Boy Scouts of America remains steadfast in it’s attempt to influence, in a positive way, the lives of our young men. As I said in an earlier post, if you don’t agree with what the BSA is, then don’t join in the first place. If you join anyway and don’t like it, then quit and find something else that suits you better or start your own group.

By Laura

February 28, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

The scouts have, in the past, paid a fee to use the base for their camporee. At the same time, the military used that as a training opportunity. The scouts do not receive any government money, unless you consider their tax-exempt status (as a non-profit organization) receiving government money. As a matter of fact, United Way removed them from their list of qualifying organizations, which is one reason I wil not contribute to United Way. Although we have taught our children tolerance of others, we have also instilled strong Christian values. There are numerous organizations available for young people that I see no reason any one organization should be expected to change everything it stands for to pacify a few. If someone wants to have an organization that is exactly what they want, then they should form it themselves.

By Mary

February 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Laura, I assume you do not teach math (or just made a math error as we all do from time to time), but in case you do, 84% is the remainder, not 86%. More importantly, that still does not justify tyranny by the majority, in case you teach social studies, government or political science.

By teachermom

February 27, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

David, actually I do lean more toward the Democratic party now and I intend to vote for Hillary Clinton if she gets that far. I am not overly-impressed with either of the Democrats in the running, but I think after the time with George W. and Taft I am ready for anything that is totally different. You may be surprised to know that I voted for George Sr. and one time an independent too. My point is that I don’t feel that small children need to be involved in political campaigns, especially when they are leaving school property without their parent’s knowledge. Nor do I agree with mixing religion and school. I feel like the district superiors were imposing their belief systems on my child. I can recall John Boehner coming to my school during his campaign when I was little. I think I was a little star-struck, not because he said anything that I understood but because I thought he was so incredibly tan in the winter. I am Teachermom, and I approve this message.

By Laura

February 27, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

If 16% do not affiliate with any religion, that means 86% do.

By jake

February 27, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Scott, I heard the new Ruskin will be populated by East End Accerlated Academy, a charter school. Can you report about this? Thanks

By joe mamma

February 27, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Mariaaa…I think when the ACLU types refer to support for BSA they are talking about facility usage. I believe the annual BSA Jamboree has been held on military installations in the past.

By JT

February 27, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I am an Eagle Scout and my son is a Cub Scout and I do not recall ever being asked about religious beliefs. As a Boy Scout in the ’70s I was lucky enough to meet presidential candidate Ronald Reagan because I was directing traffic with my troop for a campaign stop of his at Dayton International. I was not asked about my political background, I was just wearing my uniform (along with my best friend, who was not a scout, but we needed extra help and he wore my extra uniform). The point is that for a majority of the people in this country, BSA is a fine organization that teaches good values but for a very small and noisy minority, the Boy Scouts represent everything they hate, the United States. Political correctness demands that everything perceived as exclusionary to one person be torn apart and destroyed. There is not an organization in the world that doesn’t exclude someone in some way. But if it is somehow related to Christianity, then it is condemned by the libs and PCers

By DavidSS2

February 27, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this

I wonder if teacher mom dislikes Bush so that a sitting president on the campaign trail wasn’t worthy of her kids seeing him in person. Too bad her son “didn’t enjoy himself anyway.” …….I suspect if President Clinton or Obama or Hillary were to have been speaking the local town, we wouldn’t be hearing about the danger of walking into town and the offense of not notifying parents.

By Mary

February 26, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Chris, do the boy scouts allow for families or boys who do not affiliate with any religious group? I heard a T.V. report last night that I think pointed out 16% of Americans do not affiliate with a religious group. How would the badge programs impact them?

By teachermom

February 26, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

I had a very hard time dealing with an activity that my son participated in. I am not a fan of George W. The last time he was on the campaign trail he happened to unexpectedly hit our little town. Apparently, the school district and others knew about it ahead of time but never notified any parents that they had decided to pack up all the kids and walk into town together to hear the president speak. The reasoning that they gave later was that it could have compromised the president’s security. I have never agreed much with his policies, nor do I feel he is a competent speaker. So I was appalled that time was taken out of the school day to go hear this man and his campaign nonsense. I know my town is predominantly Republican and Baptist, but I am neither. I could see MAYBE having students attend something if parents were aware AND it wasn’t just a bunch of campaign promises. I know everyone was concerned with the president’s safety, but what about the safety of the children ? Didn’t anyone care that THEY could have been in harm’s way ?? As it turned out, my son didn’t enjoy himself anyway. If I had known ahead of time I probably would have done a protest at his appearance about NCLB and more. Wouldn’t that have been something, for all the students to see that not everyone in our town thinks George W. is a swell guy.

By Laura

February 26, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

I think Mariaaa!!! said it well. No one forces a boy to join the scouts. And in most cases, if a youth doesn’t make a big deal about sexuality and religion, neither do the leaders. Sort of a don’t ask, don’t tell policy. As to the govt. financial support, there are a lot of places my tax money is being spent of which I do not approve. As a union member (of which I have no choice but to join and receive the benefits or pay an equivalent fee and not receive any benefits)my dues are used to support and promote issues and candidates of which I do not agree with or approve. Such is life.

By Chris

February 26, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

I thought for sure this entry was going to be an online sales pitch to sell cookies to GOTB bloggers! (BTW - where are my cookies???) I have not (yet) had any activities of my children come into conflict with my religious or political views. But we send our kids to religious schools to help avoid those situations and to help them understand our common heritage - just like my parents did. On the Boy Scouts - they have badges for just about any type of religious expression. It is not exclusively Christian.

By Mariaaa!!!

February 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

I’m wondering what “government support” is being referenced by some writers. I’ve been involved in Boy Scouts for 13 years, have one son who is an Eagle Scout and another half way there and have yet to see a U.S. Government check made out to their Pack or Troop nor have I ever heard of this happening. Must be some people out there who know more than me.

By joe mamma

February 26, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this but I agree with Oldprof :). I wouldn’t have a problem putting my kids in BSA. But I would hope the BSA would attempt to minimize or eliminate the support it receives from government. Receiving support from the government just ends up opening the door for government busy bodies to involve themselves in the operations of a private organization. That being said, I’m intrigued about folks being worried about the boy scouts. Are these same people as worried about the garbage their kids see on MTV? Or the clothes being sold at their kid’s favorite store? Or the music their kids are listening to?

By Dan Kennedy

February 26, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

I’m an Eagle Scout from Tecumseh Council. Scouting was a fantastic experience for me from troop camping, summer camp and backpacking at Philmont up through National Camp School training for running summer camps and Council level activities. National organization politics aside, my experience was that there were more gay scouts then I would have guessed at the time. The state of those youth was never an issue that was at odds with the mission of the organization. Don’t let your politics get in the way of the wonderful opportunities that Scouting can offer you as a youth or for your son.

By Mariaaa!!!

February 26, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Have I ever found my personal politics come into conflict with an activity my child wanted to participate in? Sure. All the time. But, then, that’s life. If I found my personal politics conflicted with an activity my child was participating in and I felt that it wasn’t in my child’s best interest to remain in the activity then I would take my child out of the activity and look for an alternative activity or start a similar activity that mirrored my personal politics. I would expect that everyone who joined my child’s activity be tolerant of my personal politics and that they wouldn’t try to change my activity to suit their personal politics. Even if it was a popular activity, I shouldn’t HAVE to change it to satisfy others’ politics. Remember, I started it to mirror MY personal politics for my child. If people don’t like my child’s activity which mirrors my personal politics then please don’t join or do like I did and leave to start your own activity with your own personal politics. I don’t have to change my child’s activity to please someone else just as someone else shouldn’t have to change their child’s activity to please me.

By Oldprof

February 26, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Having had a couple of boy scouts in my home, I’ll note that the tone of the organization depends on the local troop more than the national organization. That said, the BSA official positions on sexuality and religion are prejudicial, and they should either revise their position to reflect civil rights standards, or refuse to accept support from any governmental agency. Thus far, they’ve tried to have their cake and eat it too in this regard.

By Mary

February 26, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

I vote for 4-H Club which stresses head, heart, hands, and health and keeps the sexes together. It seems a lot of youth and adult activities get mixed up with religion, politics, conservatism, and liberalism. My daughter seemed to think the Honor Society in the schools was that way. Don’t the Boy Scouts also pull religion into their programs and badges? Athletics and religion are being mixed here and there. Politics and religion are being mixed. Despite the name, I have not noticed the YMCA Clubs being heavy handed about participation in their activities. I think basic values being stressed is okay and defensible for large organizations for youth. However, I might disagree on what the “basic” values are. Traveling in herds, or group participation, is not something I have stressed for my kids. The way most groups are run undercuts individual thought,ideas, and integrity. “Groupthink” is part of our cultural problem. We also have a lot of groups and cliques. Some activities tend to enhance divisiveness over not so critical or pertinent issues.

By Happy Homeschooler

February 25, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

I have 1 Cub Scout (Bear), 1 that will be a Cub Scout next year and an almost 9 month old daughter. I love the Cub Scouts and can honestly say that I have no intention of allowing my daughter to become a Girl Scout. They are a bit too liberal for my preference and I will probably look for/start an American Heritage Girl troop when she is 5-6 years old (depending on if I am still running a homeschool co-op, which takes a lot of time right now). At this point, every activity my children have asked to participate in has been allowed, and GS is the only group I can think of that I woud not allow a child of mine to participate in. Nothing against anyone that choose GS, but it just isn’t my cup of tea.