By Nancy Chandler

July 27, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

This past year our district experienced a distinct increase in teacher absences due to sick days. Our administration and contract negotiating team has a plan in the works that teachers who miss an excessive number of days due to illness will be closely monitored. Pay cuts may result and possible termination of job. Some of my colleagues do miss an inordinate amount of work, but many do not. What happens when a teacher is legitimately ill with an extended illness? I was fortunate enough to miss no days (luck) last year and was compensated with two extra personal days. Most teachers would prefer compensation in the form of extra pay. Our jobs are stressful, to say the least. Additional expectations face us every fall as we return for another year; nothing is ever removed from our workload. Personally, my classroom is in an outer mobile building and when I need to use the restroom, I have to go outside in all types of weather and unlock the outer door to enter the building. This increases my chances of becoming ill, not to mention the children I come into contact with every day who are often sent to school sick because parents can’t take time from work.

By Avoice

April 25, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

That is a little harsh, Former DPS teacher. Be careful or Scott may delete your post. Go back and look at all the information he has gotten from other teachers and you will see that much of the input Scott has gotten has been acknowledged and addressed. It has been acknowledged and addressed by other teachers, not by Scott. I will let Scott tell you why he knows so much about DPS schools. It is his bully pulpit

By Scott Elliott

April 25, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Former DPS Teacher — I was covering education long before my wife changed careers and began working in a school. (BTW, I have mentioned before that she is a guidance counselor at Chaminade Julienne HS, for those who have asked). I am from a family of teachers (mother, father, both brothers). I have always found education issues the most interesting thing to write about and the most important. That is why I have passed on opportunities to write about other topics in the past. It is true that I have never been a teacher myself. On that front, I concede that I don’t have personal knowledge of all the issues teachers face. BTW, I got a laugh out of your comment about my “buddy” Husted. I doubt he would agree.

By Former DPS Teacher

April 25, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Scott, Perhaps you decided to write and report on education because your wife works in a school? I personally feel that you, as a reporter, are too biased to be a good reporter in the arena of educational matters. Why not write about something you know about? That’s what good writers do. What some of the articles you have written and some of the remarks you’ve made, it’s rather apparent to the many of us in the education profession, that you are about as out of touch as your good buddy, Jon Husted.

By "Sick" of this

April 22, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this

There is no questoin that teachers are sicker this year because of stress. This is BY FAR the most tiring job I’ve ever had and it’s especially bad this year with no planning/break time during the day. Two of the five days a week I get a total break of 15 minutes (lunch) while the students are in the building. Scott, what you don’t understand is, these kids require your full and focused attention the ENTIRE TIME you have them or they will, in all seriousness, do almost anything, including things so dangerous JACKASS! wouldn’t try them. In the morning, if I’m not at 100%, I have to sit and think about whether it’s a SAFE IDEA for me to be in the classroom. Luckilly, I’ve been able to say yes I can do it, almost all of the time.

By greener

April 22, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

sorry scoot this report on your lunch room visit’s should be out by the time schls.leave out for the summer see if it can make front page.

By greener

April 22, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

ok scoot you started it again you want to really aee why teachers are losing out,go to all lunch rooms stay all lunch periods as an observer un announced now you we see failure from the top down,and the why the rest does’nt work in the class room for the rest of the day.multiply times 5 days plus a whole schl. year! remember unannouced get the REAL story then talk sick leave which should be CALLED personal leave leave.remember USED CARS/ now called PRE- OWNED

By dps sped teacher

April 21, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

I teach special ed in DPS. This is my sixth year in the district and I have been one of those teachers who have taken more sick days this year than any other previous year. I have been sick more this year and had dr appt. Now that we have less planning periods per week and shorter ones at that, we are unable to schedule dr appt around planning and lunch so a dr appt requires you to take the whole day off. Plus not having any down time during the day has worn me down this year. I am much more tired this year which leads to weakened immune system especially if you have a chronic health condition as i do. Days without specials mean twenty two minutes to eat and go to the bathroom and be back to pick up the kids. so saying teachers who need bathroom breaks are whining is not right. i have friends who teach in several districts and they do not face that same situation. Yet for now like so many DPS teachers I choose to stay.

By Laura

April 21, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Scott, I had a stomach virus. On the second day of the runs and vomiting, I did the required DPS thing and went to the doctor. He wrote me an excuse for 3 more days absence. That’s 5 already. When I mentioned your comment to my husband that you thought 6-7 days was excessive, he laughed heartily because he had just been to a staff meeting and been told by his boss that too many people were coming to work sick and passing it around to others and that they needed to start staying home. That is what they were given sick leave for. I am in the same position as dps teacher. I am not young anymore, (I refuse to say old) and have things that need to be done. I have been putting off having procedures done and other appointments because I cannot make them without taking off an entire day. Unlike you, if I need to see a doctor, it usually means a day off. I can’t just take an hour off, come in a little late or leave a little early to make an appointment. As dps teacher mentioned, specialists often have limited hours. My son has a chronic disease and his specialist opens at 8:30 and closes at 4:30. I can’t get home to pick him up and then back to the doctor after school. That means I take a day off. When I do that, I do usually try to schedule more than one appointment in the same day.

By charterschoolhater

April 21, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

The parents who don’t want the kids home all day push the sick kids out the door. Such as it is, a sick child cramps many an parent’s style. Let the school care for them they say. The sick child comes to school and coughs in the face of the bus driver, teacher, teachers aide, and the custodian. Pretty soon everyone has the flu because Mom wanted to play bingo instead of caring for the sick child. This may sound sarcastic, but the very true state of affairs in Dayton’s schools. No wonder the sick leave utilization is up for teachers. These sick kids keep infecting them.

By urban_girl75

April 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Here is my daily schedule…Students come in at 9:25am. Lunch is at 1pm. Students leave at 3:15pm. I don’t get a chance to leave my room until then. There is no way to use the restroom because there is no one to cover the class. Going 3.5 hours without a restroom break is a very difficult thing for many to do. My class has several breaks a day, but I do not have that luxury. As far as sick days go, the workload has increased tremendously which has increased the stress. Teachers are expected to do their regular jobs, but also the jobs of the attendance clerk, custodian, substitute teacher(since classes have to be divided when we don’t have subs),and many other things have been thrown on our plates this year. Many children in my room come to school in filthy clothes, unbathed, sick with vomiting and fever. Parents send their children to school because they cannot AFFORD to miss work, literally. In my building, there are several teachers out with long-term illnesses that have to be out for check-ups. Many teachers have better sick leave than their spouses so we stay home. Many teachers are also single parents and when their child is sick they have to stay home. I think I am one of the few who truly enjoys being a DPS teacher. I have said repeatedly that I am in it for the long haul. No one can compare DPS to any other school district in the area. There are far too many variables. Scott, please come to a DPS school in a few weeks when it gets hot in the old buildings and shadow a teacher’s schedule for the day.

By Caroline

April 21, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

There are many reasons why DPS teachers have to take sick leave. The old buildings are are filthy and dusty. The only way to get something truly cleaned, is to do it yourself. The kids come in very sick. They don’t wash their hands, they sneeze and cough on you, and they wipe their snot on their papers. (Gross, I know, but true.) The stress is very much a cause for greater illness. The teachers are under more and more pressure to accomplish more with less tools. They have less support from the admin as far as discipline issues. This stress leads to more viruses, as well as higher blood pressure. The teachers do not get breaks to go to the RR! They have to be in their classroom during class (of course), and they have to be in the halls between classes. Actually, when I went to school to be a teacher, I didn’t realize that it involved not ever being able to go to the bathroom! In a suburban district, you may be able to run to the bathroom between classes. However, in DPS, you have to always be available to stop fights. It does not surprise me that teachers are taking more and more sick days.

By lou

April 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Scott, my son had the flu, I had the flu. Not a sromach virus he flu. That is 10 days. I guess when your children are sick 1 stays home 1 goes to work. I don’t have that advantage because my son lost his father several years ago and I am the only parent. I have no family in the state either.

By Avoice

April 20, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Why did ask for input from teachers when you are going to dismiss that input? Scott, did you teach in Dayton? Are you facing this everyday? Does your wife teach there? Are you dealing with these parents, students and illness like we are? You are adding your bias. You are not there and your point of reference is skewed. You asked for teachers input but when you get it, you do not like it. You are not there, we are. If you do not want the truth, do not ask for it. Sure I have a bias, a bias that DPS kids are getting a raw deal. So let the truth be told. DPS teachers miss work because of the many conditions outlined over the past years; it just became much worse year due to the budget cuts. They tell you they are stressed, they tell you they miss days do the listed conditions and issues at DPS and you don�t believe it or accept it. Go back Scott and re-read all the input form AnneL, Barb, Laura and other DPS teachers. They have been telling you this from before the last levy vote.

By anneL

April 20, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Look � I taught in DPS for years � this year I am in another district. Now I teach children who are kept home when they are ill. I get a planning period and a lunch break. My building is clean and I am not under the incredible stress faced everyday by the DPS teachers. This year, I am not often sick, but I KNOW how unfair it would be to compare my attendance with the attendance of ANY DPS teacher. Please don’t even try to think you understand teaching at DPS just because you know about teaching in other places. It is a different game. Scott, you said you wanted to know from the DPS teachers, I was there, I know. The number of children coming to school with serious illnesses, combined with the incredible stress, long hours outside of the classroom, no breaks during the day, along with classrooms that are rarely cleaned except by the teachers themselves, well this is enough to explain high sick rates. Use the restroom during breaks � the public is not hearing this because the reporters refuse to expose it � the DPS teachers are not getting breaks. Scott, spend a day in a classroom, just one, in Dayton, then go back to your computer, you won’t believe what you see.

By Barb

April 20, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Scott perhaps it would be interesting to compare these figures with other school districts. Perhaps some of the suburban districts around here and some of the inner city districts. How do Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus stack up? More, less around the same? Is there a pattern that coincides with the economics of the population of students and parents? Where do Jefferson, Trotwood, Vandalia and Northmont fit in? And no I don’t think teachers knew they would not have time to go to the bathroom. In DPS we have students who can not be left alone for even a minute or two while teachers go to the bathroom. I think if you talked to teachers you would find that the workday has lengthened as the students have changed. I am not sure you will find teachers having the same issues in all school districts. I don’t think a lot of teachers are complaining they would just like to see the acknowledgment that is is a job not many people would want to do yet so many have advice how to do it.

By a dps teacher

April 20, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure what the average absences of any worker in any industry/corporation might be. I don’t think that 6 or 7 days absence is all that much for a year. If you get two bouts of laryngitis or bronchitis (which I get with regularity every year), it is not unreasonable to take 2 or 3 days for each bout. Maybe you have a day of flu or need a test on top of that. There are your 6 days. Maybe, like many of us over 50, you need procedures done like colonoscopies (which need 1-2 prep days), shots to hip,back or knees, or root canals. Surely, no one is objecting to a person taking a sick day or two for a medical procedure. Many of us 50-plus people see specialists who do not fit into our schedules - we fit into theirs. Again, why would anyone have a beef with someone seeing their specialist? When I was young, I was starry-eyed, thought working like crazy & sacrificing my needs was the smart way to get ahead. Now I am nearing retirement, need to work longer than I ever expected, and continue to give physically, mentally & financially to this job more than I should. But I will take days off when I need them no matter what for - illness, tests, procedures, or mental health days. Because I have worked hard to earn them and no one else is going to take care of me, except me.

By Concerned Mom of 3

April 20, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

It would be interesting to see if there is any statistically significant attendance data on students and teachers in the six or seven urban districts of Ohio compared to the student and teacher attendance data in suburban districts. Or maybe compare the attendance data of districts whose levies have failed and those in districts whose levies have passed. I still stand behind my belief that when a person works under stressful conditions, their immune system weakens.

By Scott Elliott

April 20, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

I know Avoice likes to personalize things. But he or she is reading an awful lot of their own biases into this post. I do not know why DEA members average 6 to 8 sick days a school year. That is why I asked teachers to chime in here. My gut reaction was, and still is, that 6 to 8 is a lot of missed work days. Whether it is justified or not — I don’t have enough information to make that call. I used myself and my wife as simply a frame of reference. The comparison is not intended as any sort of value judgement. We typically use 2 to 4 sick days a year (over 9 months for her and 12 months for me). Does working as a classroom teacher alone justify doubling (on the high end) or tripling (on the low end) the number of expected sick days? Statistically, that would seem extreme to me. But I am not an economist. Maybe there is a school nurse or public health expert out there who can chime in?

By Avoice

April 20, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Nice bait tactic Scott. I think that you are learning more and more on how to increase participation in your blog! So I will bite on this quote, �I think I was out sick twice last year and I can�t remember a year I was out more than four times for non-extended illnesses.� This is spoken like someone who has never been a teacher, much less an elementary teacher or one who works with inner-city children. Sick kids come into the classroom and hand you papers and other items. You have to come in contact with the kids to teach them. You can not do this via remote control. These parents can not afford to spend time home with their ill children. Come on Scott, this is not the burbs, it is the city! Your wife works in what system? She works with what age students? She is a teacher? She is a teacher in Dayton? Your building, peers and her building and students are under the same conditions that DPS teachers work? I thought that this was about DPS? As others have tried to tell you, our DPS classrooms are dirty, mold is everywhere, priority cleaning is common and the kids, well they have so many issues that I will let other teachers try to tell you, again. I wonder how many DPS teachers have been to the board buildings. I wonder how far they got in so they could see the clean rooms, nice carpet and furniture and breathe the clean air? (There does not seem to be too much priority cleaning going on there.) Then the guessing game would be over. Compare your personal work attendance record with those in the 2 board buildings Scott. That would be a little more realistic. Heck Scott, I bet that you can leave your office and use the restroom during the day? Try that one in DPS and find out what happens. The film will be on channel 7 at eleven PM. Yes, Pat is correct with the information regarding the school day and teachers doing other jobs because of the elimination of so many other teachers. Many DPS teachers see other people come in to the system as subs as tell us how they are going to turn things around. They know better and that the job is easy. Very few have lasted more than 4 days. I really worry about you Scott. You seem to want to give the impression that you have learned very little over the past couple of years as it applies to teachers and working conditions in DPS. So is it intentional or are you really that out of touch with the DPS system and the worsening environment in classrooms? Perhaps you need to have a New Day Dawning?

By Concerned Mom of 3

April 20, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

I was typing a post and it suddenly disappeared. I hope it did not get submitted for posting- because I did not have chance to proofread my comments. Anyway- If I am repeating, I apologize. Scott- Cute picture. The only thing missing is the stack of papers to grade and the red grading pen! :-) Dayton Teacher- I am usually the teachers strongest cheerleader… I don’t know if your intention was to convey the idea that the district owes you something- but it did. Further, I personally think it is the wrong attitude. When you signed up to be a teacher, you knew there would be times you would not be able to go to the bathroom. That is part of teaching- so I have very little sympathy for your complaint. I agree with your principal, but I might have stated it in a different way… If you can’t wait until your breaks to use the restroom, see me to problem solve. The problem solving might involve some Depend undergarments, some Immodium AD, or staying home sick. Lastly, for those who continually complain about not getting paid for the work you do outside the school hours… That is also part of teaching. If you did not go into the profession with your eyes wide open, well, that was your own problem. Now, having said all that- I do not think teachers are paid what they should be. Teachers deserve to make a fair wage. I do not believe teachers make a fair wage. The continuing education required in order to maintain the state license is a huge burden. I also do not agree with the way schools are funded. I also think cutting the special subjects at the elementary level is the wrong place to make cuts. Not for the teachers benefit, but the kids. If you read my posts on a regular basis, you know that. Stop the whining. Get the job done right. Take a sick day when you are truly sick.

By Teacher and Taxpayer

April 20, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

I am curious how DPS’s numbers compare to suburban districts. We teachers in Dayton frequently have children come to school with fevers and green stuff coming out of their noses. I would like to know if this is the norm in more affluent districts as well. I do know that parents often cannot take off work to care for a sick child but can leave work because the school called to let the parent know that the child was sick. I personally have had more serious illnesses in the last two years, resulting in using more sick leave, than I have experienced previously.

By Mary

April 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Scott, regarding your third point. Maybe the kid germs are less intense in a counselor’s office. I thought you said your wife was a counselor. She does not get all 20-30 sets of germs attacking her at once. I thought AnneL provided a good description of the classroom teacher exposure. However, I also agree “sick building syndromes”/bad ventilation systems do not apply to just schools. I have worked in a few old government buildings that probably had decades of old germs left over and still floating around the ventilation system. A lot of workplaces have been known to have the problem. I think “Legionnaires’s disease” occurred first in a convention hotel.

By Scott Elliott

April 20, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

OK, let me make a few points in response to recent comments. First, I asked the district for five years of data but they could only produce three years. If Old Prof prefers, perhaps we can call this a “mini trend.” Second, it was the teachers’ union that brought this issue up and initially asked the district to pull the data and made it public, not me or the school board. Third, I am not buying the argument that working in a school naturally results in more sick days. My wife works in a school. She has never had more than four sick days in a school year. DPS’ average in its best year of the data set is almost six and a half sick days per person! All I am saying is that sounds like a lot. I have three kids who attend school/child care and bring home a lot of germs. And I go to the office twelve more weeks a year than my wife. But I am pretty certain I’ve never used more than four sick days in a year except when I had surgery. (Remember, we’ve subtracted out the long-term illnesses like that for this study.) And consider that until this year there was no limit on the number of sick days I was allowed to take under company policy. In answer to another question, at the DDN our union negotiated up to three days bereavement leave for the death of a close family member. But when our kids are sick, we have to take a sick day for that. The two sick days I took this winter were for sick kids.

By Barb

April 20, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I bet if you really looked into it you would find that many teachers come to school sick. It is when they have a sick member of their family, a child sick or something of that nature. Many jobs if you have a Drs. appt. you can leave and come back. These are things that are not possible for most teachers. I think when you want to compare teaching to other jobs please don’t forget to include the overtime hours which are volunteer and never compensated, perhaps the hours of grading and planning on your own time. My husband might bring home work about once a month that takes him less than half an hour. He is in an upper management position. I think we all know high stress jobs induce illness. When a person is under a lot of stress their immune system breaks down. Most jobs have some down time, a few minutes to sit, take a break, eat lunch. There is no down time in teaching at least in Dayton. Once again we have a lot of people who comment say they know what it is like because they have seen it. Try living it for a week. Follow the schedule of a DPS teacher both during the day and after the day is completed. In there somewhere we are suppose to raise our own children, take classes, and if we are lucky have friends, family and a social life.

By Paul

April 20, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Once again, Scott Elliot does his “Duh” approach to teaching. But more to the point, most contracts mandate 1.25 days of sick leave for every month of teaching. But then when teachers use what is entitled to them (legitimately), somebody has to “track it” and harass those that use a benefit that the board agreed to. Rem. too, sick leave also must be used for funerals. In Scott Elliot’s job, I’m sure if his father died, the DDN wouldn’t make him use his vacation leave. But even still, sick leave also covers if you have a sick child. Sooo.. I know that we all like to pay lip service about the great work that teachers do, but the concept of sick leave is very comperable to the “Business world”. Only difference is what it is called.

By Oldprof

April 20, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

My memory is that there were three particularly rough strains of flu going around this winter, and recent medical analysis found that the flu vaccines dispensed created zero immunity to one of them and only partial to the other two. I myself had to take sick days this academic year, and I can’t recall the last time that happened. And Scott, taking data from two years and calling it a “trend” is a misuse of statistics; you need several years of consistent data to call anything a trend.

By AnneL

April 19, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Okay, Scott, It�s really NOT fair to compare the number of sick days you�ve had to take to the number a teacher would have. First of all, if you go to work sick, you are not chancing infecting 30 children. Then, you do not come into contact with 30-120 children everyday. Children come to school sick, often. They cough, sneeze�all over papers that they then hand to � the teacher! Teachers are in classrooms full of children everyday, many of whom have not yet perfected the skills of good hand-washing� Yes, we instruct them to cover mouths, wash hands with soap� Tell you what, move your office into a room with 30 kids, then when the 30 leave, let 30 more come in�, and have them using your computer and handing you papers. Work on their desks, hug them when they come in, work on the same computer that these children use. hold their hands to show them how to form a letter, feel their heads when they don�t look like they feel well. Then care enough about them to know that their parents can often not afford to get them to a doctor, so you know you don�t need to infect them if you should manage to get something that they haven�t given to you. Then we can compare your sick days to a teacher�s.

By Dayton Teacher

April 19, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

I predict the number of teacher absences will sky rocket after next weeks OAT. As a teacher, I have to say after OAT, I take days off work because I feel I deserve them. The student’s behavior is way beyond out of control, the test is over, so why should I try so hard when no one else does. Teachers are stressed out and pushed to the limit, we deserve better pay better treatment, and with buildings closing, people being uprooted and moved around, changing grade levels, it makes you feel like not going to work. The buildings are old and stuffy, allergies act up, we feel like we can’t breath, we need the day off. My principal has openly said, if you need to use the restroom more than twice a day, you need to call in sick. There is no one to cover your class. How inhumane.

By Laura

April 19, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

My personal experience is that only a handful of teachers actually take what we refer to as “mental health” sick days. I think the reason teachers as a group have more sick days is that they are constantly exposed to children who are frequently sick. I know when I began teaching that is one of the first things I was warned about. “You’ll be sick all the time the first few years you teach.” Well, in my case, I have always had a relatively weak immune system so I tend to get anything the children are passing around. I do know that a lot of teachers don’t take off as often as they probably should since so many come to school obviously ill and pass it on to everyone else. Scott, assuming your children have been in group care and/or school do you mean you didn’t notice a difference in how often you became sick after having children as compared to before? I can’t imagine a parent that hasn’t. I know that even after I had children mine brought home anything I didn’t catch at school.

By Mary

April 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

My sincere and unapologetic thoughts and opinions are that first priority for discretionary education funds or school fund raisers should be for promoting cleaner air and water for the school buildings, better lunchroom food, and smaller class sizes. School districts and supporters (including local medical and health care businesses) get fired up over lead tainted turf for football fields that are rarely used while students and teachers are breathing bad air and drinking bad water. It would be interesting to see if student sick days are also increasing. Crowded classrooms are physically and mentally stressful for students as well as teachers. Better air, water and food help combat illnesses. Did you also ask for student data?