By Laura

June 1, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Concerned Mom: Don’t stop with teacher’s who can’t figure out the difference in word usage. I have had assistant principals who couldn’t speak or spell correctly, I have worked with Parent liasons whose grammer was appalling. It extends to businesses anymore. My son downloaded a job application from a very large corporation. As I was looking it over I noticed numerous grammer and incorrect word usage mistakes. I quit looking after 5 as I thought I just might have to stop patronizing the store! In defense of youth, very little grammer and spelling is even taught anymore to make time for what is perceived as more critical skills. Sad.

By Concerned Mom of 3

June 1, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Mary, I have always said that parents should be involved in their children’s education. Not sure where the part about “parents should have no sayso about what goes on in the classroom” fits into my personal viewpoints… Also, don’t lump me in with others who call the man stupid. I make no judgement about that. I tried to made the point that I think proficient parents will be more likely to produce proficient kids. I think there would be an extremely high correleation if the parent and child scores were compared. (Not only in urban districts. Suburban districts too.) Is it possible that the biggest reason some schools look so good on the state report card is due to the parent’s level of proficiency? (Think about that for a minute.) Further, I don’t believe low test scores reflect a teacher’s (or a district’s) inablity to educate. I maintain my view that “the parental piece of the education puzzle is a critical piece.” If you still consider my point of view “huffy and self-righteous,” Ok. Let’s agree to disagree on this one. Everyone involved in a child’s education needs to be proficient… On a side note, it bugs me to no end when actual teachers don’t properly demonstrate the difference between “two, too, and to” and “they’re, there, and their.” It also bugs me when an actual teacher doesn’t begin a sentence with a capital letter and end it with proper punctuation. I wish there could be a human resource committee in each building. I wish the committee could interview potential teachers prior to an actual placement. This would prevent a school from getting stuck with a bad teacher… The good programs in the Dayton district are being “poisoned” with bad teachers who happen to have seniority. At what point does a teacher’s skillfulness in teaching take presedence over the number of years of experience? In a few cases, Dayton needs to “weed out” those who are less proficient in teaching.

By teacher

May 31, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Funny, Jimmie - I was thinking the exact same thing while I was reading her response.

By Mary

May 31, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this

But “teacher” and “concerned mom of three” you should also ask if the teacher, principal. superintendent, board, and any of us getting all huffy and self-righteous over participation in the graduation ceremony could also pass the test. When school districts have been known to alter or provide fraudulent grades to keep a student athlete eligible for college scholarships, it seems ludicrous to worry about a student participating in a graduation ceremony that has no legal basis or added expense to the education system or others. All of a sudden it is all the parents’ responsibility to see their child pass the test. I thought schools knew better than parents about the classroom. Be consistent. How did the school fail the child in preparing the child to pass the test after 13 years of schooling at over a hundred thousand dollars taxpayer investment? Parents should have no sayso in the classroom, right?

By Concerned Mom of 3

May 30, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmmm….. Interesting point made by the teacher….. Could the parent pass the test????? That is probably a very valid question….. I bet there would be a high correlation between student and parent scores if anyone ever took the time to look into it. Maybe if parents were held accountable for being proficient, the kids would be proficient too.

By teacher

May 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

What an idiot!!! No wonder his kid is a failure. I wonder if he could pass the OGT????????

By Please, please let it happen!

May 30, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

For those who think that students should not have to provide independent proof of the required knowledge (objective testing), I sincerely hope your next surgery is performed by an MD who received his medical license the same way.

By jimmie

May 30, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Re - Jessica’s paragraph below calling the ogt “ridiculous” There (yes I know which “there” to use) are at least 4 punctuation or grammatical errors in your one paragraph. You are the perfect poster child for why we need the ogt.

By Oldprof

May 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Let’s keep one thing clear; the OGT is a seriously flawed test that, in fact, is not a reliable indicator of student achievement. The solution to that problem is to reform the state board of education and to fix the standarized tests, NOT to cave in to argumentative parents and students.

By bystander parent

May 30, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

You all are SO right! A “certificate of completion” means nothing and should not be given to anyone. Tell the whiners to go home and allow those who earned the right to graduate celebrate their achievement!

By tongue in cheek

May 30, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Maybe they can hold 2 ceremonies…The GRADUATION ceremony for those that graduate and receive diplomas, and a RECOGNITION ceremony for those that want to be recognized for completing high school and receiving their certificate of attendance.

By Barb

May 30, 2008 7:11 AM | Link to this

Remember passing the OGT is failing at anything else you would do. Between 40 - 50% of the test correct. Six times to try. Help offered to you at every corner. I am sure this whole episode should be more embarrassing to the student than not walking in a ceremony. Without a diploma there are already many things a child can not do. College is out and I believe most civil service jobs so what is really important to this parent. Mr. Domineck I think your child already has a lot of problems headed their way in the future without a diploma that marching will not change. I wish our parents could focus on what is important. What is important a party or a secure future.

By deb

May 30, 2008 5:31 AM | Link to this

As it has been mentioned before, any student that doesn’t pass a portion of the test, AND meets the criteria for an exemption to passing the test can receive their diplomas. My guess since these parents are in court, their kids didn’t even meet those standards…That’s my personal reason for the “Too bad, too sad” attitude. Secondly - Kim - as a parent of a developmentally delayed child, then my assumption is that you should know that your child is exempt from the consequences of not passing the test if his/her IEP is written correctly…The FEDERAL LAW states that a child can be exempt from those consequences and RECEIVE his/her diploma. Yes, he/she will have to take the test, but he/she doesn’t have to pass it. If he/she is extremely developmentally delayed, then the student can be alternatively assessed on the OGT and still PASS the test. Parents MUST be aware and INVOLVED in their children’s education. At one of the DPS bldgs, the students who were alternatively assessed for the OAT all scored “accelerated” or “advanced” - the top 2 ratings the State offers. WAY TO GO KIDS!!!

By Caroline

May 29, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

The OGT is necessary because here has to be standards. If graduation was based on just grades, the schools would happily graduate all their students just to look good. DPS loves to pass students just to get them out of their classrooms. The curriculum is already “dumbed down” just so that more students will pass the classes. Many DPS students are not prepared for the real world. They are used to having their hands held, and being told that “it’s o.k.,” if they just do half the work. This is doing nobody any favors.

By null

May 29, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

This is completely absurd.

By Phil

May 29, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

This is yet another example of education’s climate of entitlement: if one simply tries—no matter the result—then one deserves the reward. Unfortunately, while this climate is apparent in education—both in high school and in college—such is not the case in the “real” world. As the district’s attorney wisely points out, workplace promotions are not granted merely because someone “tries hard.”

By painfultruth

May 29, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

The biggest problem today in education are “helicopter parents” who swoop in at the sign of trouble, and argue that “thier” child is “special”, and therefore rules must be changed to accomodate. The rule was simple; pass all the requirements and you graduate. Don’t, and you don’t. Exactly what is wrong with this rule? NOTHING! Sure, let’s ignore the kids education and not be an active participant until there’s trouble. If trouble comes, sue! The new American way when you don’t get your “entitlement”.

By Oldprof

May 29, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Just what we need: more self-serving novices on the school board. And three judges who don’t care what the district has to pay for legal fees to defend against an ignorant lawsuit. THIS LAWSUIT, DAYTONIANS, IS COSTING YOUr TAX MONEY THAT MIGHT BE BETTER USED TO EDUCATE.

By former ICS parent

May 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Now he’s going to run for election to the school board? This is just what DPS does NOT need—a board member who’s sole motivation is seeking retribution for his personal emotional crisis. It’s been said several times already—where was this sense of responsibility these past couple of years, when the child was repeatedly failing the exam? The board needs members with the ability to set goals and plans to achieve them, not someone who sits idly by, doing nothing until its too late, then launches on an emotional binge.

By Brooke

May 29, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

I hope the judges do the right thing and rule against Mr. Domineck. Students these days are given multiple times to take this test(and yes before you say anything, I took this test and passed with flying colors). It would set a VERY bad example to the rest of the class (who earned their chance to walk at graduation by passing the test) to allow this student(s) to walk with them (regardless if they failed by a few points). I have to agree with Mr. Concannon’s logic on the situation. “Trying” doesn’t (always) cut it in the “real world”, so it shouldn’t count in this case either.

By Kim

May 29, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

I am a licensed teacher and I believe that, if the students have truly tried and have attempted the test at every opportunity, then they should be able to march. I will qualify though, that the students should also be in good standing as far as behavior and attendance is concerned. Some students just do not possess the ability to pass those stupid tests. That, and, some students just do not test well. Why punish them if they have truly tried, attended school as mandated, and are good kids? There is no reason for it. I know my one daughter will never pass the tests…she is developmentally delayed, yet still has to take the tests. Why? Because some stupid politicians think they know what is best for OUR kids! I hope these attitudes have changed when she graduates in 4 years. Otherwise, I will be fighting the same battle.

By Jessica

May 29, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

I think they should let the kids march even though they did not pass the ogt. That really isnt fair because even though they did not pass the ogt does not mean that they did not pass all there classes. Personally i think the ogt is ridiculous if the students can pass all there classes they shouldnt have to pass a test in order to graduate. But thats just my opinion……..

By Dustin

May 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

The OGT’s are a good base, and I understand why the state requires them. This guy needs to suck it up and deal with it. OGT’s are administered your sophomore year, and on a spring/fall basis after that. That gives her AT LEAST 2 times per calendar year to attempt the test. I understand some schools are weaker than others, and that some people simply do not have a choice when it comes to the matter…but there has to be a baseline for the state to judge how well schools perform. But there is a need for a Zero-Tolerance policy. If there weren’t one, then the test would be a completely useless benchmark for the school system.

By Jimmie

May 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Why in the heck are the courts involved? Pass the darn test and then you can participate in graduation. How tough can the test be? Another example of the dumbing down of America. Perhaps the embarrassment of not participating in the graduation ceremony will prod the students to do better.

By Socialwrkr

May 29, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

I feel so sorry for the kids who DID meet all the requirements for graduation who don’t know if they will have a ceremony because of a few. It’s completely unfair to THEM, and their families. I’m sure they have relatives supposed to come to town, parties planned etc but because a parent wants to be mad NOW that his child didn’t pass a requirement, they are put on hold. Shame on Domineck and the Ohio Appeals Court.

By follow the rules

May 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Plain and simple — follow the rules. The expectations are there for a reason. Pass the OGT and graduate. It’s called a GRADUATION test for a reason! Quit wasting taxpayer money with the lawsuits and appeals.

By JW@GM

May 29, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

If this parent would have spent more time helping his daughter study for the Ohio Grad Test, his daughter would have been able to march. He needs to stop clogging up the courts time with this silly matter.

By Kevin B.

May 29, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Great. Mr. Domineck wants to run for the school board just so he can further lower standards and expectations for a school district that is already struggling academically. If he were this vigilant during his daughters’ four years in high school, she would have most likely either 1) passed the OGT or 2) achieved the 2.5 minimum g.p.a. and 97% attendance rate allowance for those who don’t.

By deb

May 29, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

i understand the parent’s being upset about their kids not participating…why weren’t they fighting this fight(changing the policy & procedures concerning graduation) back in the fall when they got notice that there could be an issue?? There have been a lot of legitimate points raised throughout these articles….but count me in the camp of folks who still don’t think the kids should be able to march saturday morning..

By Davidss2

May 29, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to watch the news to see this guy’s appearance. He has the strangest logic as to schools and rules. If his child couldn’t pass the test one time in 9 tries (or whatever the number is for max tries) then the gene pool must be very shallow. As for running for school board, that is just what we need… more people running for school boards without real knowledge and for their own personal agenda. Duh.