By Oldprof

July 23, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Hey Calvin, good question. Based on some data from 2000, US teachers earn less in adjusted dollars and work 35% more hours than their European counterparts. Teachers in Switzerland earn almost twice as much as those in the USA. Adjusted per hour, US teachers earn $35; the international average is $41, and South Korea’s average is $77. http://www.therationalradical.com/documents/teacherssalaries.htm This 2005 chart seems to show that Portugal has even higher salaries. http://www.eurydice.org/ressources/eurydice/pdf/052ENindicateurs/052ENXX010D37x0101f.pdf So by comparison, US teachers are overworked and underpaid—a conclusion that should surprise no one while disquieting educational dilettantes like Checker Finn.

By Concerned Mom of 3

July 22, 2008 6:53 AM | Link to this

Just a quick note of thanks for your responses to my questions about testing in DPS… I suspected that the testing wasn’t very consistent. Perhaps this is an issue that should be addressed in order to save time and money. (On a Federal level, State level, local district level, and a building level.) Consistency is so important. (My opinion.)

By Oldprof

July 21, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

Concerned Mom: yes, the Ohio state tests flap in the wind. That’s why DPS, under Percy Mack and the 2002-2006 BOE, decided to use Terra Nova testing—so that they could have a consistent way of tracking their progress year to year. As for ETS, no one familiar with their history, their past failures, and the validity of even their most widely-used tests is NOT surprised.

By Mary

July 21, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Calvin, I do not think we should limit comparisons to teacher pay and use of standardized tests. There should be many other ways to compare and contrast the system there and here. What is their calendar like? Does the school meet year round? What are the class sizes? How is the ability grouping used throughout the school years? Do they track students into various careers and apprenticeships? Do the schools there pay for afterschool sportsand other activities? What degrees do their teachers have? How do their curriculum degrees compare to ours?

By Laura

July 21, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Concerned Mom: It would be impossible to provide a comprehensive list of the tests because it changes from year to year, from school to school. There are tests that the state requires, there are tests that the district requires (such as Terra Nova for certain grades and then quarterly “practice” OAT tests) and there are other tests that individual building administrators sometimes add. Over the years the grade level the tests are given in has changed so many times that teachers and even administrators get confused if they give a certain grade level test.

By Riverdale Ghost

July 20, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Would you rather (maybe) do the police beat or (maybe) world news?

By Calvin

July 20, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

While we’re drooling over the reported methods of use of test results in Europe vs the use here, maybe we can compare teacher pay from Europe as well. Who has some data for comparison?

By Mary

July 19, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I agree with the comments of Concerned Mom of 3. I had noticed they actually use the test results to “ability group” - a dirty phrase in the education system here (except for varsity sports, of course). deb, I agree that the lack of validity in the results not only adversely impacts teachers, but students, as well. Standardized testing should be fixed, not thrown out.

By deb

July 19, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

There are also teachers who have had their licenses in jeopardy because ETS has messed up the scoring…Imagine being told you can’t get the license for your job because ETS messed up the scoring????

By Concerned Mom of 3

July 19, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

I took a few minutes to read over the linked article and the comments following the article. It seems like the tests in Europe are actually used to gain meaningful information about student abilities. It also seems like the European schools use the test results for proper placement in the schools… What a concept! And no wonder the European community is up in arms about the poor system of marking and returning accurate scores! They actually use the results for decision making… I haven’t ever seen consistent or effective use of test scores. The tests in DPS seem to change like the wind… As a parent, I haven’t ever come to expect consistent score reports about my children’s progress- except for their report cards. I know my children take multiple standardized tests/practice tests throughout the school year, but it seems like I rarely see the results- unless I ask for them. Maybe that is because our testing system only focuses on certain grade levels… I find it to be confusing. As a concerned mom, I feel like I should be in tune with any consistent process for testing and receiving results. I am not. The Europeans seem to know exactly what to expect from the testing. Their system of testing seems more consistent than ours. Is there any teacher in Dayton who can summarize a comprehensive list of the battery of tests Dayton students go through from K-12th grade? Maybe with a couple of comments about what the test results tell you or how you use the test results once you have them? Just wondering. (I am sure it is not an easy answer.) Perhaps Laura or someone who has been in the field for a long time could respond?

By Mary

July 18, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

It appears not only was the system poorly managed, but some of the the “markers”, who are apparently teachers, have some problems in competence. I do not understand why there are “markers” used for math, etc. Apparently, none of the sections are “bubble” tests which can be machine graded, but are instead marked and scored by “markers”. I am confused about the test after reading the link. It sounds very dependent on the competence of individual “markers”.