By mike

January 14, 2011 12:12 AM | Link to this

This is great news actually. Too many times the playing field has not been even as the private schools mostly get to pick and choose from good players in a wide area while public schools are confined to just their school district boundaries. This should have happened a long time ago. No more domination for schools such as St.X, Moeller, or Cleveland St. Ignatius. Or even Alter or CJ for that matter.

By jimmie

January 14, 2011 12:59 AM | Link to this

One of the three criteria to be used to determine the division assignment is the number of free lunches served. What does that have to do with athletics? How stupid can these folks be.

By Even?!

January 14, 2011 5:55 AM | Link to this

Life is competition. As you inhale your first breath, you’re in the game to compete and survive…like it or not. An even playing field applies to the physical surface where the competition will be played. The occupants/teams/players walking upon the field know thier foes, thier strengths, weaknesses, advantages, disadvantages. To paraphrase a certain drill Sargeant: go back to mamby-pamby land. Let’s make it all “even”, in fact, why keep score? We don’t want to hurt the “feelings” of those not prepared, for whatever reason, to compete. You then can hand out trophies to all of the participants, call the grief counselors to boost up the fragile little ego’s of the “losers”, and then move on in your “even” march to mediocrity. Has anyone reading this ever “lost” at anything in life? I have. Sometimes my best was not the best to ensure success in the competition I found myself in. I didn’t cry “fowl”…I experienced being up against the current best, found out what my weakness was after losing, and learned from the best how to become the best, and even then did not measure up sometimes. The word “liberal” has now infected the simplest of all of life’s teaching mechanisms, organized competition using team sports. You know, it wasn’t “fair” that I ended up at Sinclair, then U.D. and Wright State instead of Harvard or Yale. It’s not “fair, so I don’t want to play anymore! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Need a tissue?

By rj

January 14, 2011 6:36 AM | Link to this

Goodbye.

By Coach

January 14, 2011 8:03 AM | Link to this

Catholic schools are successful in athletics for the same reason they are succussful in academics. The high expectations from parents, teachers, administrators and coaches are met or there are consequences. Most public schools have low expectations and live down to them.

By Question

January 14, 2011 8:06 AM | Link to this

“Obviously, if all three factors are against us and we end up playing a school with 1,000 boys, that’s ridiculous.” Then why did you play Centerville this year?

By Question

January 14, 2011 8:08 AM | Link to this

“Obviously, if all three factors are against us and we end up playing a school with 1,000 boys, that’s ridiculous.” Then why did you willingly play Centerville this year?

By Truth

January 14, 2011 8:09 AM | Link to this

Fairmont could drop to D IV and still fininsh 3-7. My kids go to a public school that doesn’t care about sports, but now they’ll somehow benefit from not caring?

By thehumanbeing

January 14, 2011 8:32 AM | Link to this

Don’t let the door hit your a$$ on the way out. If the Cathloc schools are going to cry that the playing field is finally leveled after years of having an unfair advantage then let them leave. And do not suggest there is no advantage. Dating back 20 years, Catholic schools have won 47% of all sports (Boys and girls) championships , but comprise on 17% of total schools. the percentage is higher in football and higher yet in small school football ( D4 through d6). I am an Alter fan, but it is simply unfair for a school which can draw from a five county area to small community team like Clinton Massie in the playoffs. There are exceptions over th eyears, but the pattern of unfairness is simply to consistent to ignore anymore. BTW, the propsal will not likely be passed, as the OHSAA board of directors has a very strong Catholic presenece and significant influence over its member schools. This “proposal” is mostly window dressing to calm the masses for another few years.

By Tony

January 14, 2011 8:37 AM | Link to this

It’s no secret that Catholic schools recruit, but so do public schools with open enrollment. Other schools from larger districts can get by without it. But, a top notch player in a district that doesn’t care about sports or with lower academic ratings will most likely end up elsewhere and since a lot of times Catholic schools rank high in educational merit, it is easy to get the kids there and make it about education.

By Mac

January 14, 2011 8:39 AM | Link to this

If Fairmont doesn’t care about sports then why: -do they have some of the best facilities in the area. -do they have a rich sports tradition and history. -do they hire some of the finest coaches. Please don’t judge their football success and have it reflect on the entire sports program (I am not from Fairmont)

By voiceofreason

January 14, 2011 8:51 AM | Link to this

whats next? looking at results and comparing urban schools to rural schools? what about schools in the MAC? they dominate at the state level yet make up a small percentage of the total # of small schools in ohio - you going to level the playing the field for the rest of the small schools somehow? where will this end? a school is a school is a school. get better or get out.

By Spend It Because I Got It!

January 14, 2011 8:54 AM | Link to this

I say do it! Every weekend would be like the playoffs with Catholic schools playing each other. All the good catholic games will be attended by the college recruit scouts and the fans will pack the stadiums for the big games. The OHSAA will cry foul and wonder why nobody cares about their state playoffs. Then they will ask for the catholic schools to come back and I hope they tell the OHSAA “SCREW YOU!”

By Gom

January 14, 2011 8:59 AM | Link to this

Does anyone really believe the only reason Catholic schools have an unfair advantage is that they can pick and choose which athletes attend? With few exceptions, the Catholic schools provide a stable academic and social environment for students and parents. It’s not just athletics at these schools. I can see the dismay on the public school side but the ridiculous criteria set up to rectify the situation is LOL. I agree with Domsitz, the Catholic schools should form their own association and let the public schools finally get their chance by not playing the best. Hope everyone is happy then

By hank

January 14, 2011 9:13 AM | Link to this

They are heading in the right direction with the split but it should only be for the playoffs. In New York they have done this for years. They have a public school championship and a catholic school championhsip and then top teams from both divisions meet for the federation championship.

By Harry

January 14, 2011 9:17 AM | Link to this

When catholic schools recruit players there is an unfair advantage. Public schools that recruit are penalized but the catholic schools get away with it. Before you say they do not recruit then why is it kids who are not into athletics pay to attend and kids who are good in athletics get to attend for free? I am sure there are kids at St. I, X and Moeller that could not afford to pay the tuition to go there but somehow they are there with no financial burden or worries. The private schools want to play in the public arena but they do not want to follow the rules!

By Waiting to hear from Brian Kelly

January 14, 2011 9:17 AM | Link to this

Will Notre Dame split from the NCAA as a show of solidarity?

By Facereality

January 14, 2011 9:23 AM | Link to this

Just like in other facets of society – people that are lazy or don’t work as hard will always complain (natural complainers!) about people do that dedicate themselves to being better students, workers, athletes etc. It is a basic form of jealousy, envy and sloth. Its been a thousand years that these vices hold back people from rational thought. And you know what – it will last for thousands more. Catholic schools (and few public schools as well i.e. Centerville)win because of two basic premises - dedication and discipline. Its not rocket science people! And by the way - I’d like these idots who cry “recruiting” to define what that means. That word gets thrown around only to justify their own ignorance and lack of effort.

By Dagwood

January 14, 2011 9:23 AM | Link to this

To the person that said public schools with open enrollment recruit too. Those public schools might only get one or two players to go to there school. The private schools recruit the whole team, not just one or two. The private schools have had an advantage in all sports for years. Just look at all the titles in all sports that they have won. Just look at college sports, the playing field is even because both public and private college institutions recruit the whole team.

By Dagwood

January 14, 2011 9:26 AM | Link to this

Notre Dame recruits all there players just like the rest of college teams do. Private schools in the state recruit there whole team and the public schools do not. What a stupid comment Brian Kelly!!!!!

By Harry is mistaken

January 14, 2011 9:35 AM | Link to this

Harry, you need to check for facts before making a comment. My kids attended Catholic shools, played sports and we paid full tuition, no assistance what so ever. We have friends whose kids are top athletes. They were recruited by Catholic school, but could not afford the tuition and therefor attend public school. Just because 1 Catholic school may offer athletes full scholarship does not mean every athlete gets a free ride.

By Richard

January 14, 2011 9:37 AM | Link to this

Hey, Even! How did politics get into this? It is a case where private schools do recruit. That is not fair. Let the private schools form their own leagues, hire their own refs, and have their own play-offs. The rest of us will watch our kids play in our home towns.

By JRichardson

January 14, 2011 9:37 AM | Link to this

Wake up people talking recruiting and catholic schools. I guess you don’t see Wayne, Trotwood, Dunbar, Thurgood, Jefferson, or any other public schools recruiting? You think its a little harder to recruit when tuition has to be paid? CJ costs almost 9k a year. Kid has two options, go play for that crook Trice, for free, or play for CJ and hope he can get some financial aid. Is that a level playing field? Kid’s can’t pass at CJ, within the same year they are playing at public schools? This is started by a bunch of parents, who never won, who never worked hard to get what they want. They think it should be given to their kids. Catholic School demand more, and win more. This would be a terrible decision. And while you are at look at the facilities the publics have versus the Catholic Schools. Level playing field?

By Rick

January 14, 2011 9:39 AM | Link to this

Give me a break, private schools get to choose who goes to this school and in the article above Domsitz actually admits that it will create a larger recruiting war. That already exists now. A good student with the grades to get in a private schools but has no athletic ability would not be accepted over a marginal student with great ability. They can pick the number of kids they want in the the four grades which ultimately determines what division they play in also. IT’s about time!

By B.R.

January 14, 2011 9:45 AM | Link to this

This is ridiculous.You have people saying catholic schools recruit that have know idea what there talking about. My son went to a public school and left because teachers were telling him not to answer questions in class. He is a decent athlete but I will tell you that when we talked to the coach he did not recruit him he told us about the program and talked about the academics. The school he left has gotten worse year after year.I will tell you that another kid from that school was leaving and was taken to eat and talked out of it even though it would have been a better situation for him.Who is recruiting? Its about the parents and the dedication, plain and simple it is a different atmosphere. Believe me if you watched the respect these kids have and there dedication they give you would not say what your saying.What do school lunches have to do with sports. Life is not easy, and changing the rules instead of kids working harder is crazy.I would love to see Alter move but thats because there tough to beat every year not because they have an advantage. Go Coach D! You have earned the right to speak your mind.If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

By truth

January 14, 2011 9:47 AM | Link to this

Check the basketball/football rosters at Dunbar, Wayne, Trotwood, Centerville and tell me who recruits. DOn’t bother checking Fairmont as it obvious they don’t.

By Jrichardson

January 14, 2011 9:50 AM | Link to this

Rick you got to be an ignorant person to believe that CJ’s drop down to a different division is so they can compete, or any catholic school for that matter? You looked at CJ’s basketball schedule this year? They have played every public school that matters in basketball. They lost a starter to Dunbar two years ago, so he could shine. They lost two other probable starters due to grades for a semester. One transfered and now plays for Dunbar. Don’t give me this Catholic schools only recruit. Yeah any kid can go to any public catholic school, if he pays almost 10k a year? Tell me about these kids that can go to Dunbar or Trotwood from anywhere in the city of dayton? Is that fair to Stivers, or Ponitz or Belmont?

By coach

January 14, 2011 9:52 AM | Link to this

Oakwood has some of the worst jr high sports coaches in Ohio and it shows once they get to HS. Alter has some of the best youth coaches anywhere, and it shows when they get to HS…so penalize them!

By old buck

January 14, 2011 9:52 AM | Link to this

The Catholic schools have cheated for years.Can any of you holy boys tell me how Jeff Graham ever showed up at Alter?What about your former qb from Trotwood?The parents of these guys couldnt afford your tuition.How does that happen?I guess friends of the program!

By Walt

January 14, 2011 10:11 AM | Link to this

Coaching and teaching at public schools throughout my 33 year career, I experienced first hand the blantant recruiting by non-publics. It’s questionable when disadvantaged youth who are “great athletes” somehow get “academic scholarships” to attend non-publics. 43% of state championships go to non-publics — it has nothing to do with “their superior standards and expectancies” and it has everything to do with recruiting!

By Mojo

January 14, 2011 10:19 AM | Link to this

It’s about time. This should have been done a long time ago. The public schools haven’t had a level playing field since the private’s started recruiting. It doesn’t matter how many boys you have in school if you’re paying for all of the best in the area to attend your school.

By BR

January 14, 2011 10:19 AM | Link to this

What about Wayne’s QB from Springfield and Northmont has been known to receive kids from Trotwood. Kids that apply can receive help with tuition now you are talking about punishing kids who want better schooling just because of sports. What a world we live in that high School sports has gone this far.It is amazing to me that this is talked about. I believe Wayne might have beaten one of the schools we are speaking of, on there way to the state finals.If remember Alter lost to a public school(Kenton) who beat Clinton Massie. Those were great teams who could have won State but lost. Those are just a few examples.I really am amazed that people know what people can afford to pay for there child having a better education and better chance going into college.

By Oakwooder

January 14, 2011 10:43 AM | Link to this

Seems to me that the public schools who want to win find ways to do it. Those who don’t/can’t are the ones driving this discussion. As for Oakwood/Alter comparison, same demographics and school size but different expectations. I don’t want to become Alter. Ever.

By Matt

January 14, 2011 11:14 AM | Link to this

to the commenter about NY… They only have the Federation Championship in Basketball. In Football, there are Championships in NYC, Long Island, NYC Area Catholic league, and the rest of the state Championships. Some really good teams on Long Island don’t get to play for a state football championship. Ohio does it right, coming from someone who grew up in NY and played in the championships, Ohio’s system is so much better.

By sandbagger

January 14, 2011 11:27 AM | Link to this

Alter would play a third grade public high school team in the D4 Playoffs and beat them 100 to nothing and think they have done something!! Alter to afraid to play where they really need to be with the others that recruit (cheat).

By A Mom

January 14, 2011 11:31 AM | Link to this

My son played a varsity sport for one high school and was being recruited by Alter HS to play for them…sad thing is, he was already attending a rival Catholic HS. Alter doesn’t care how they recruit. He turned them down.

By nullReality

January 14, 2011 11:46 AM | Link to this

After reading this blog it amazes me the stupidity we have in our society. People like Sandbagger personify the lack of knowledge (and grammar!)that exist. Obviously a public school product! He probably votes too! It’s no wonder we have an idiot for a President because idiots voted him in. Thanks Sandbagger!!!

By Playing the System

January 14, 2011 11:54 AM | Link to this

Public schools cannot deny students that are in their district; therefore, have no control over what division they will be in. Private schools can pick and choose how many athletes they admit. It’s simple as that. Alter has Division I caliber talent playing against Divison IV schools. I could care less about recruiting because I’ve seen it in public schools as well. It really comes down to private schools being able to set the number of students coming into their classrooms

By alter alumni

January 14, 2011 12:02 PM | Link to this

Playing the System, your theory is BS. Alter’s been trying to increase enrollment for 7 years and can’t due to various factors like the economy and tuition hikes. The future Performing Arts bld won’t have a weight room or indoor practice fields. They have bills to pay, too. The ignorance on this topic is amazing.

By Volleybal parent

January 14, 2011 12:24 PM | Link to this

There are a large portion of the girls volleyball coaches in the state, especially in D-I, who would love to see the Catholic schools in their own orbit so they had a chance at a state title. Catholic schools, especially in Cincinnati, have dominated volleyball more than any other sport for the last 20 years.

By Catholic empoloyee

January 14, 2011 12:42 PM | Link to this

@ Playing the System Do you really think any Catholic high school is choosing to have less students in these economic times? Most of the Catholic schools have declining enrollment and are battling it tooth and nail to get numbers up. ALL Catholic schools offer financial assistance to ANY student that can’t afford regular tuition. It is the purpose of annual funds, scholarship fund drives, fundraisers, etc. We want to give as many students possible the best education possible.

By Lucas

January 14, 2011 12:55 PM | Link to this

BR, Alter got beat by Columbus Bishop Hartley which is a private school. Which went on to destroy Chargin Falls in the final. Just like YU destroyed Coldwater, just like DSJ destroyed a little farm school. Lets see D3 yep another private school beat a public school from Akron which is fair in my Opinion. I say a mutlipler would work just fine. I’m tired of watching non competitive games because urban catholic teams are killing a town of 2 or 3 thousand people. I think the muliplier is the best way, but In my opinion all Catholic schools within a certain radius of a town of 50K are D1 sorry no questions ask if you can pull from D1 population then play D1 in the playoffs. Sorry D6 private schools your brother privates schools ruined it for you but I would rather have 20 private schools complaining unfair then 400 public schools at an unfair advantage.

By Alter Parent/Alumni

January 14, 2011 12:58 PM | Link to this

I am an Alter alumni and current Alter parent. I have been watching Alter football for the last 8 years. Almost all the boys who have played and helped Alter achieve their great seasons (2 state championships back to back) have gone to school with my child for 12-14 years or attended another local Catholic elementary school. I know most of the parents. So, were they recruited in Pre-K??? Also, if Alter is a big recruiter, why hasn’t our BB team been state champs recently???? I am proud of all our teams and our school…go Alter!!

By Middletown Middies

January 14, 2011 12:59 PM | Link to this

Catholic schools have been cheating/recuiting for years, they just lie about it. Let them form their own association, the public schools don’t need them.

By Mr Fair

January 14, 2011 1:01 PM | Link to this

If you’re going move Alter/Fenwick/CJ up to DI or DII, it’s only fair that you drop Fairmont to D IV and Oakwood to D IX.

By Gom

January 14, 2011 1:13 PM | Link to this

Look, most of the comments about the Catholic schools are so far off base it is laughable. Don’t make up ridiculous rules just to keep the public schools competitive. Just separate the playoffs and tournaments into Public and Catholic. That way the public school’s can have their sense of accomplishment just like the Catholics. And, hey, let’s penalize any Catholic HS grads at least 25% on their SAT and ACT scores so the public kids can compete academically as well.

By Catholic Employee

January 14, 2011 1:14 PM | Link to this

@Mid Middies: Prove it? You mean Fenwick is cheating to steal kids from you? It has nothing to do with a subpar education Middletown provides compared to Catholic schools even an hour drive away? SOME Middletown residents just prefer a good education for their kids and are willing to go above and beyond to get it. (in this case “Middletown” can be any of a large number of public school systems in the Cincy/Dayton area).

By Tony

January 14, 2011 1:25 PM | Link to this

@Dagwood…then explain to me how public schools like Pickerington have entire starting lineups getting full sports scholarships year in and year out when the year before, the players were living/playing elsewhere…don’t tell me that public schools don’t recruit. In Cincinnati, private schools are in districts so you go to the one where you live at…how come no one is complaining about Purcell Marian or Roger Bacon? Or do you only complain about winning programs?

By catholic employee

January 14, 2011 1:30 PM | Link to this

@ Tony: To be fair, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati did away with “boundaries” a couple years ago.

By COACH WAYNO

January 14, 2011 1:32 PM | Link to this

I love how Coach Minton at Wayne said that if it were not for Catholic Schools he would have two State Championships. Does he not realize that Wayne will not only have to deal with all the same Catholic Schools that he does currently..Moeller, St. X, St. Ignatius, but also with all the ones they may move up to D1. Like DeSales, Watterson, etc. Sometime you know someone is not very intelligent and then they open their mouth and remove all doubt.

By Go Bucks

January 14, 2011 1:50 PM | Link to this

Middletown & Massillon is the only Ohio high schools to ever go on probation for being cheaters. Both public schools

By Marvin 74

January 14, 2011 2:02 PM | Link to this

I have to agree with Alter parent/alumni. My kids have been playing with the same group since kindegarden. They play well together becuase they have played togther for so long. The only time new blood comes in is if families move in from out of town or have difficulties with the school they are in. As far as limiting enrolment, I will guarantee you anyone willing to write the check will be enrolled. So lets review, Catholic schools recruit by offering the most sparten facilities and by charging stiff tuition while encouraging their students to excell in whatever activity they select while enduring strict disiplne. Well it worked for me and is working for my kids now. Its all about tradition and taking what you have and making the most with it. These are just a group of motivated individuals with parents who suppot them. In short that makes them winners.

By More money for us

January 14, 2011 2:30 PM | Link to this

The GCL can include Springfield CC, Lehman, and Lima CC. That would give us 10 schools. We can schedule the Toledo and Columbus diocese schools like we have in the past and move on. An all Catholic school playoff would keep the $ in the diocese rather than go to OHSAA. Good luck with attendance at the public playoff games. If it came to head to head competition on a Friday or Saturday night, guess which playoff games the scouts and football fans will attend?

By SEC Rules

January 14, 2011 2:36 PM | Link to this

Jay Minton…OSU would 2 more Championships if it weren’t for SEC schools. Maybe we can exclude them to make the Big Ten better. Doesn’t make sense does it. Play, coach, and train better! Public school education…you get what you pay for.

By caj

January 14, 2011 2:49 PM | Link to this

So a parent is unhappy with their kids public school experience. They approach a Catholic School and they receive some financial aid to attend that Catholic School. Whether the kid is smart academically or gifted athletically does not come into the equation. The parent wants what is best for their kid and somehow this is “recruiting”. Give me a break.

By sconley

January 14, 2011 3:03 PM | Link to this

Public schools have no choice to take a student or not take a student like a private school can. Thus our enrollment number are inflated due to student enrollment of student whom will never participate in athletics.Free lunches are an indicator of the socioeconomic situation of the school, along with that indicator is a level of parental involvement and that goes a very long way. Private schools and Catholic Schools have a very high level of parental involvement and higher level of socioeconomic status, thus giving them an advantage in that “support” level. If your program is successful, private or public, athletes are going to want to come to your school to participate.

By Joe

January 14, 2011 3:09 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Cincinnati try this once before with the Cincinnati Academy of Physical Education?

By Jack

January 14, 2011 3:23 PM | Link to this

There needs to be a common sense approach to the placement of teams in the proper divisions. Not coming with answers, but for a school like Alter, not fair for them to be in D1, but certainly not fair for them to be D4 or whatever they are in for footballl. Then a schools like Oakwood, Valley View, Eaton etc.. are DII in some sports and that is a complete joke. I would like to see D1 stay the same, most Catholic schools move to DII and allow schools to petition to move up or down and have a OHSAA committee vote upon the petitions.

By Triplle Option

January 14, 2011 3:23 PM | Link to this

I would love too see the split. How many years have we seen schools like Alter and St.X go out and recruit players to goto their school and everyone in kettering wonders why fairmont has no talent in their sport programs, cause they all the kids goto alter

By Fairness

January 14, 2011 3:32 PM | Link to this

Let’s say Alter has 350 boys. Let’s give them half of the 200 plus underpriveleged boys that go to Fairmont that aren’t eligible academically and receive no support from home that Fairmont is forced to take and count in their enrollment. That is what this all about.

By Joe

January 14, 2011 3:40 PM | Link to this

So tell me how fair this is for schools like Portsmouth Notre Dame, Fairfield Christian, small schools that struggle to field a team. You don’t think the Glenvilles and Massilons recruit? I went to Portsmouth Notre Dame, no only did we not recruit, we didn’t have one kid on the football field that wasn’t a Catholic, they were kids I grew up with, went to church with, the families all knew each other. That’s the secret guys, it’s a close knit community that want their kids to excel, and they provide the means to do it. It wasn’t easy for my parents to send us to a Catholic school, but it’s what they wanted for their kids. If you say the Catholics recruit and you can’t compete with the Catholic schools then explain to me how we have schools like Glenville, HIlliard Davidson, Springfield, Huber Heights with great seasons. Wy didn’t we recruit DePriest, Miller, and the Glenville kids to go to Alter, Watterson, and St. Ed’s. I’m sure the kids would of went if it meant they would be assured of winning a state title. I guess the ain’t Catholic also believe that the government had a hand in the 9-11 disaster, that we didn’t land on the moon and that Custers last stand was an inside job.

By MAC

January 14, 2011 3:47 PM | Link to this

Allot of Catholic haters out there. Sure doesn’t seem to bother you when you pickup your state voucher. The programs are better because of the better quality of student. The parents pay to keep them away from the learning curve called the city student. Don’t blame the system for what truly is the mistake of the people.

By MAC

January 14, 2011 3:50 PM | Link to this

Allot of Catholic haters out there. Sure doesn’t seem to bother you when you pickup your state voucher. The programs are better because of the better quality of student. The parents pay to keep them away from the learning curve called the city student. Don’t blame the system for what truly is the mistake of the people.

By lucas

January 14, 2011 3:53 PM | Link to this

Jack, why is it not fair to move Alter to D1? For the last 5 years all Alter fans have been saying is we can compete with the big boys but when it comes down to changing rules, all of you change your minds. Then alter Fans start making other excuses like why hasn’t are BB team been good. Name one catholic school that has been good in Football and Basketball. Usually its one or the other. Funny how the presidents of some catholics schools admit to recruiting because they have to have students too keep there jobs but all the fans say no way we don’t recruit. It’s all a bunch of blah blah blah because like someone said before the OHSAA board is made up of mostly private school backers so they just put this out there to shut us up. Go ahead private schools and create your own association and see how fast you run out of money. the person talking about attendance has no clue what here talking about. I was at the Badin and Coldwater game. There was about 200 people form badin at the game and about 2000 for coldwater. Was the the Kenton Vs. Alter game and Kenton people where sitting on the visitor’s side. No one wants to see private vs. private play and the recruiters can watch game tape.

By lucas

January 14, 2011 3:53 PM | Link to this

Jack, why is it not fair to move Alter to D1? For the last 5 years all Alter fans have been saying is we can compete with the big boys but when it comes down to changing rules, all of you change your minds. Then alter Fans start making other excuses like why hasn’t are BB team been good. Name one catholic school that has been good in Football and Basketball. Usually its one or the other. Funny how the presidents of some catholics schools admit to recruiting because they have to have students too keep there jobs but all the fans say no way we don’t recruit. It’s all a bunch of blah blah blah because like someone said before the OHSAA board is made up of mostly private school backers so they just put this out there to shut us up. Go ahead private schools and create your own association and see how fast you run out of money. the person talking about attendance has no clue what here talking about. I was at the Badin and Coldwater game. There was about 200 people form badin at the game and about 2000 for coldwater. Was the the Kenton Vs. Alter game and Kenton people where sitting on the visitor’s side. No one wants to see private vs. private play and the recruiters can watch game tape.

By Willie

January 14, 2011 3:56 PM | Link to this

One thing OHSAA could do to help would be to keep from assuring that a private school will make it to the championship game. Check out the last couple of years, OHSAA always pairs two private and two public schools togehter in the semis, when you assure that one school is going to be private you have a 50/50 chance of a private winning. But then you might show how horrible the public schools are by assuring two private schools in the championship. It’s the old thing of we can’t beat them so let create a whole new level so that little public school Johnnie can feel good about himself by stacking the tables against the private schools. Like someone else said in these posts how is that Pickerington can have all that talent and no one’s complaining there. How can Hilliard Davidson be a constant threat and no one complains, how about Glenville, I’m sure that’s all on the up and up. Why don’t we just take all the winners from the year before and tell them you won last year you can’t compete this year as we have to spread the winning around to all those who haven’t won. You’ll be able to compete in 5 years. What a load of malarkey!!!

By Willie

January 14, 2011 4:00 PM | Link to this

Lucas, the lowest attendance for any of the final games this past year was the public vs public DII game. Check it out, no one wants to see public vs. public. They all want to see private vs public or private vs. private. Hate to bust your bubble but truth hurts.

By Willie

January 14, 2011 4:04 PM | Link to this

Lucas, the lowest attended game of the state finals this year was the DII public vs public game. It’s public vs public no one wants to see, it private vs public or private vs private that people go to. Hate to bust your bubble but truth hurts.

By stushe

January 14, 2011 4:29 PM | Link to this

This debate about Catholic schools recruiting has occurred over and over again. The only “unfair” advantage that a Catholic school may have over a public school is the ability to provide a more stable environment for kids to learn and excel in. When any school is able to provide a stable environment for a student, that student is going to excel at more than just academics. The students may excel at sports and leadership. Providing the stable environment helps to make a person more confident about themselves and the things that they do. My children attend a public school. Fortunately, the school that my children attend, also, helps provide a stable environment. This stable environment has, also, made better athletes and leaders out of the students. My children’s school excels at both academics and athletics. In order to be competitive in all areas of life, a stable environment must be the first thing that is established. Catholic schools help provide this, but public schools can do the same thing

By Tom

January 14, 2011 4:44 PM | Link to this

What about demerits for drinking vs. kicked off of the team? I KNOW of kids in private schools that have had DUI’s and played on that Friday due to demerits! I guess that is called “high expectations!!” Another example of a difference between the two!

By Tom

January 14, 2011 4:49 PM | Link to this

Either way, public or private, recruiting is allowed no matter what the area to draw from consists of. As long as the school markets the entire experience (athletics, academics, etc…) then schools can attempt to get as many transfers as they want. Look in the paper for CJ or Dayton Christian or even public schools offering recruiting fairs. Maybe Catholic Schools have to do more of it to increase enrollment and funding but publics do it as well.

By Catholic Employee

January 14, 2011 7:24 PM | Link to this

Ok, here’s a plan…you must match up kids to play against each other. If my biggest man on the offensive line is 6’1” 200 lbs, you are not allowed to have a defensive lineman any larger than that. That is fair right? As to the dude calling out the “fisheaters”…first off—nice and mature post there. Second, isn’t it the public school people who have been crying for years? Here’s the deal…schools are there to educate and the kids should be fortunate just to have a sports team to be part of (and parents fortunate to have a sports team to babysit their children). As for being on the team, it is about (And SHOULD be about) much MUCH more than championships. It is about creating a team atmosphere of hard work ethic…the destination may be sweet or sour, but the journey getting there is the most important part.

By Tomas

January 14, 2011 8:01 PM | Link to this

This would be great as I get sick and tired of private and parochial schools recruiting like colleges while the public schools can only play the kids in the district. The best example is Cincinnati Moeller that, under Gerry Faust, recruited in a three-state area to produce a national powerhouse. Let Alter play Delphos St. Johns as it would be a matchup of master recruiters.

By mark

January 14, 2011 9:09 PM | Link to this

this will not do anything to div 1 since they are already in div 1. Akron Buctal and huber heights could have won their games don’t blame it on watterson or st eds.hartley had not won since ‘86. i think we should separate, because moving up a division will not hurt d1 and there are catholic schools that never win. What happens if mooney moves to d2 and still wins? Public schools will still complain. we never here any thing win all public schools win.

By Just Wondering

January 14, 2011 10:09 PM | Link to this

Name one kid that Alter recruited for football over the past 5 years?

By HHRes

January 14, 2011 10:50 PM | Link to this

Recruiting isn’t the big issue IMHO. I believe it is the unfairness in the scheduling. Public schools have to play in a conference and play against teams that will not give them the harbins needed for playoffs. For example Wayne, Centerville, and Northmont has to play against teams like Beavercreek, Fairmont, etc. While private schools have the ability to schedule out state teams or teams in state that will give them the harbins. Which is why you can see a 8-2 public school not in the playoffs versus a 5-5 private school in.

By HHRes

January 14, 2011 10:55 PM | Link to this

Recruiting is not the issue for me, it’s the scheduling. Public schools have to play conference games and play against teams that do not give you the harbins needed for playoffs. For example Wayne, Centerville, and Northmont playing Beavercreek and Fairmont. Private schools make their own schedules and can choose to play teams out of state or in state that gives them the points. This is why you see an 8-2 public school team not in playoffs while a 5-5 private school is in.

By Leroy

January 15, 2011 12:26 AM | Link to this

I hope what Mr. Domsitz says is true. The whole recruiting thing (real or not) has been a black cloud over Ohio high school sports for too long.

By mike

January 15, 2011 12:33 AM | Link to this

the bottom line is catholics who give tuition breaks to certain kids is a form of recruitig isn’t it ?? it’s like giving a scholly to a kid who meets a certain criteria financially who has a special skill ?? the lack of parochial boundaries also unevens the playing field doesn't it ?? the crux of the matter is there is an inherent advantage of being able to draw from a wider area that enables better talent to come together to produce a stronger team. public boundaries ensure that having a lot of kids that have top end talent together at any one time is entirely cyclical whereas private and catholic schools have a much greater chance of having top end talent being together on a much more cossitent level .how hard is that to comprehend ?? it's like AAU teams goig against a city or town team , the advantage is obvious isn't it ?? in any given year you might see an outstanding public team that happens to ahve a cluster of kids with top end talent , but that is not the norm even in the best programs , but if you look closley the privates and catholics they ahve a higher incidecne on a yearly basis of having an ALL STAR type team that they can put on the field , not to mention more depth that is always a factor in a long football season. why does say the little league world series have strict boundaries adn numbers certain leagues can draw from?? simple , it’s becuase Tawain won every year because they didn’t follow the same drawing area numbers they complied with . they drew kids from 1000 kids where the numbers the united states teams had much lower numbers they could make one team with. they pulled out when they were forced to comply , they eventually complied adn ahven’t won at nearly the same level since then. no need to get defensive, but then again it’s that defensiveness that suggests that you know the inherent advantage exists. if the drawing area and numbers mean nothing why are there even seperate divisions at all ? the smaller enrollment catholic schools have the biggest advantages obvioulsy and it shows in the final scores of their play-off games . what chance does a small public school have of having an offensive line that averages 250 across the board as the small catholic schools have ?? NONE THAT IS HOW MUCH , SO IS IT SATISFYIG TO BEAT UP SMALLER SLOWER KIDS FROM SMALL RURAL COMMUNITES AT THE LOWER LEVELS ALMSOT EVERY YEAR ??

By Don

January 15, 2011 12:42 AM | Link to this

Let’s see what happens when the private schools state championships are packed and the public schools can’t make enough to pay the costs of holding theirs. Ts is a big mistake OHSAA and they are going to regret it. So are the public schools when their attendance goes down. Right now in the Columbus City League attendance is so bad , unless they are playing a neighborhood rival or a private school, you can count the crowd on one hand. They will live to regret forcing the private schools out.

By Yellow_Jacket06

January 15, 2011 1:36 AM | Link to this

Reading some of the typical private school elitism on here is quite comical. News flash: Not everyone was born with a silver spoon their mouth. Just because you pay thousands of dollars doesn’t mean public school folk don’t care as much.

By Rider

January 15, 2011 1:52 AM | Link to this

This is stupid, Alter played Centerville this past year, and could compete and probably beat any of the division I teams. All of you guys saying that the catholic championships would be packed and the public championships would not is just foolish. A lot of the catholic schools outside of the Big Division I schools don’t have the huge following like a true community would. The OHSAA also tends to give a public school the “home” bleachers because they know they will bring more fans than the private school. This is something that has been getting out of control the last 10 years and it’s about time the OHSAA and its member schools do something about it. Otherwise why even show up to play.

By Yeah I said it.

January 15, 2011 1:59 AM | Link to this

Catholic schools lack the ability to see reality…and won’t admit to using the loop holes in the system. Catholic schools can recruit yes I said rectruit any player in they want to…doesn’t matter where they are from or how they get him as long as he is eligible. Public schools on the otherhand get punished if we go out and try to “recruit” players…They say well public schools have open enrollment, but really how much is it helping? It’s not like we are allowed to go out and recruit the best talent in the surrounding counties…we basically hope and pray for a move in that just so happens to be a good athlete, and then if that does happen we get accused of recruiting a player. SMH, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

By BleedsCJGreen&Blue

January 15, 2011 6:57 AM | Link to this

More public school “Race to the Top” on display here? In reality, it is the “Race to Mediocrity” if this proposal passes. What coach or school could proudly display championship trophies when they knew they did not play the best competition in their true division? With open enrollment at public schools now, it is not about recruitment at all, but rather about the higher overall expectations of parents and teachers and the student athletes themselves at private schools. This might be another case of “Be careful what you wish for”.

By hanson

January 15, 2011 8:00 AM | Link to this

This is hilarious. Everything was great when the catholic schools were stock piline state championships. Try to level the playing field and they want to secede from the union!! Cowards!!

By Jammin

January 15, 2011 9:05 AM | Link to this

1st- Catholic schools in Cincy/Dayton have only had “no boundaries” in recruiting (they recruit students to fill the halls, not athletes!) for 3 years….so are we all agreeing that this has only been a “problem” for 3 years? Second, I think schools like Colerain would beg to differ with MUCH of what is being said on here. They would join the GCL if they could knowing it would make them even better than they are.

By Quit whining and Hit the weight room

January 15, 2011 9:20 AM | Link to this

Alter players start hitting the weight room a few weeks after the season ends,hard work is why they are successful.Why don’t we leave the divisions the same but give the Public school teams 6 downs every series and make the Catholic school players play with one hand tied behind their backs? Will that make you whiners happy?

By Lucas

January 15, 2011 10:02 AM | Link to this

Willie, I know the lowest attended game was the public vs. public D2 game but that was and I’m not racist at all just stating what I’ve always seen. The mostly african-american teams don’t bring a crowd to any games no matter how good they are. Just read my other comment about how many catholics were at the Alter or Badin games. In 07 Alter Vs. Coldwater, which was the best game I ever saw. There were about 300 Alter people at the game I remember because I froze to death because no one was at the game. When I go to a playoff game public vs. private I always sit on the private school side because I know there will be seats. Don’t compare the D2 game because that’s not a good example. Go to any Trotwood games and they bring no one. Willie next time you go to a private vs. public game just look at the other side of the field. Also, go to a Trotwood, Dunbar, Thrugoood marshall or any inner city african-american game next year and see the attendance.

By Jammin

January 15, 2011 10:15 AM | Link to this

@Lucas…which private vs public games are you going to? Obviously none that involved the following schools: St. X, Moeller, LaSalle, Elder, McNick, Fenwick, and though you mention Alter that really surprises me. IF any of these teams are playing within reasonable driving distance (Get off work at 5 and still be able to get home and to the game) then I don’t see an empty visitor stand…and if any of these teams are at home, I really don’t see their side being empty. Just my experience of going to GCL football games (against all opponents) for the last 14 years +

By Matt

January 15, 2011 11:42 AM | Link to this

Tomas, “DSJ Master Recruiter Huh”. Never Had Never Will, Check all players in The Past, all home grown hard working kids from parents (who at least 1 is usually alumni) who just care and support them! Just ask The other members of the close nit “Public” farm communities in the MAC Coldwater, St. Henry, Versailles, Marion Local Etc. All very sucsessful programs all around! How many Klaus’s do we need to prove it?

By Matt

January 15, 2011 11:43 AM | Link to this

Tomas, “DSJ Master Recruiter Huh”. Never Had Never Will, Check all players in The Past, all home grown hard working kids from parents (who at least 1 is usually alumni) who just care and support them! Just ask The other members of the close nit “Public” farm communities in the MAC Coldwater, St. Henry, Versailles, Marion Local Etc. All very sucsessful programs all around! How many Klaus’s do we need to prove it?

By matt

January 15, 2011 11:46 AM | Link to this

Tomas, “DSJ Master Recruiter Huh”. Never Had Never Will, Check all players in The Past, all home grown hard working kids from parents (who at least 1 is usually alumni) who just care and support them! Just ask The other members of the close nit “Public” farm communities in the MAC Coldwater, St. Henry, Versailles, Marion Local Etc. All very sucsessful programs all around! How many Klaus’s do we need to prove it?

By George

January 15, 2011 12:46 PM | Link to this

I think this is great! A bunch of Catholic schools getting mad because the playing field is going to be level. It is unfair to public schools in several ways. Catholic schools DO recruit athletes. Schools, like Alter and DSJ, keep that enrollment low so they can stay in lower divisons. Sure they send out letters to the whole community, but only the athletes are allowed in. Another issue is that even if a public school were to “recruit” a kid, even if they are open enrollment, that kid has to sit out unless his parents move too. Now if a kid, who goes to Centerville wants to just transfer to Alter, no issue, he does not have to sit out. that is BS.

By Showkiller

January 15, 2011 1:04 PM | Link to this

This is a good thing. It will put high school athletcs on a more even playing field. I coached varsity football for 10 years and I saw it amny times. Catholic schools were getting kids from all over the area and while public schools were land locked and don’t have open enrollment, that makes it tough to compete on the same level. When CJ can have a center from Vandalia start on their State Championshi team, and Alter gets their starting db/ss from Tipp City, it’s not fair. I’m glad that the OHSAA is looking into this, maybe now the public schools will have a better chance in the playoffs.

By James

January 15, 2011 1:38 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see how much these Catholic schools would win if they only had Catholic students enrolled at their schools. It’s easy to field championship teams when you can cherry pic all of the talent in your area, then surround them with kids from good homes (aka the linemen).

By jammin

January 15, 2011 1:39 PM | Link to this

@George…HA! You think Catholic schools are limiting their student body? You are NUTS. Catholic schools can only survive by having students pay tuition. They’d die to have classrooms full of kids each and every year. OH, and you might want to fact check. Kid goes to Centerville and transfers to Alter they have to sit out a year, just as if that kid went from Centerville to Fairmont. On the other side, if the kid starts at Alter and goes to Centerville they do NOT have to sit out a year!

By David Klopfer

January 15, 2011 1:53 PM | Link to this

Domsitz is concerned about playing a school with a 1,000 boys instead of Alter’s 350! Now, they have a disadvantage and that’s not fair? Alter might get beat. What was his quote after the Centerville game? It was good thing but we probably won’t make this a tradition. Why not, because Alter might get their a$$ kicked every year. How is fair that he has boys play on his football team from 5 different counties! Not communities, counties! I agree that life isn’t fair and the sooner you learn that as a kid, the better adult you’ll become. However, this topic is not about fair, it is about proper representation. Somehow, the United States Constitution figured it out. We call that the Senate. There would be nothing better for high school athletics and public schools if Catholic schools had their own State Championship, however scheduling is and should be done at the school level. If a public school wants to schedule a Catholic school, that’s their prerogative and I encourage it. Ask Domsitz how many boys from Centerville play on his football team? Can you imagine the outcome if he hadn’t? Ask Domsitz how many boys play on his football team that are NOT catholic. The fact is of the matter is recruiting has existed and will always exist as long as parochial schools exist and if the OHSAA took parochial schools out of the mix, no one could EVER argue or complain about recruiting ever again.

By BleedsCJGreen&Blue

January 15, 2011 2:12 PM | Link to this

This makes for humorous reading on a cold winter day, doesn’t it? Since most private high schools send well over 90% of their grads on to higher education, while public schools send, ohhhh, some number well shy of 90%, to be fair we should handicap those darn cheater private school brats. Let’s make them score higher on ACTs. Whoops, I forgot! On average, they already do! Not to worry, I’ll come up with something else for a handicap. Maybe no more church festivals or bingo or Holy Water. Yeah, that would do it!

By WHATEVER

January 15, 2011 3:01 PM | Link to this

I guess in the private school supporter’s eye it is fair, that they dominate. They recruit, they have better training methods, more money available. Why are they afraid to compete against possible tougher opponents? If they still win then God bless them, if not then they can work harder, recruit more, and go at it next year.

By TEA PARTY

January 15, 2011 3:22 PM | Link to this

How many of those private school coaches left public schools to coach at a private school? When its time to retire from coaching how many of those private school coaches leave to the public schools to collect those pensions?

By TEA PARTY

January 15, 2011 3:37 PM | Link to this

“Ask Domsitz how many boys play on his football team that are NOT catholic”. Ask CJ the same… Javon Ringers father is a Baptist Minister.

By KRoberts

January 15, 2011 5:02 PM | Link to this

@JRichardson Do you honestly think that calling Trice a crook will make your precious little CJ any better? Trice has done wonders for the basketball community and Im obviously not the only one who thinks that or he wouldnt be winning all these coaching awards that are voted on by other coaches. When you say that CJ has every public school that matters on their basketball schedule this year, you forgot the number 1 public school in the area : Wayne.

By KRoberts

January 15, 2011 5:05 PM | Link to this

@JRichardson Do you honestly think that calling Trice a crook will make your precious little CJ any better? Trice has done wonders for the basketball community and Im obviously not the only one who thinks that or he wouldnt be winning all these coaching awards that are voted on by other coaches. When you say that CJ has every public school that matters on their basketball schedule this year, you forgot the number 1 public school in the area : Wayne. @COACH WAYNO I dont think Coach Minton is hoping to eliminate the Catholic schools from his schedule completely. He has admitted in many interviews that playing the Catholic schools only makes Wayne better.As for the lower division schools that will finally be forced to stop hiding in the lower divisions and move up to D1,im more worried for them than i am for Wayne. There’s a reason those schools have been hiding in the lower divisions all those years and they have no clue what kind of battleground theyre stepping into.

By rm miamisburg

January 15, 2011 6:21 PM | Link to this

Has any one on this post/comment line, taken a minute to take a look at where the best Div One FB schools are. Take a look at the Div One State Champs and see they are Cleveland and Cincy. It has nothing to do with Recruiting. It has to do with these Cities having PRO -NFL- Football teams. You don’t think that a Brown/Bengal player, living in C and Cincy, that doesn’t want his kid to go the best HS ? He will put his KID in a Catholic school in a heart beat knowing that KID will have a better chance for a College to grab his kid. If a Elder can win back to back State Champ game -02-03, and go against the BEST teams in OHIO and KY and Indy and other states, YET it is the Public teams that cry foul, when they can’t make it to the play off’s PLEASE> Give me an Elder-St X-LaSalle-Moe any time on a Friday night to watch. YOU ALL yell OH BUT ELDER Recruit’s. WELL Go take Elders Roster for 02 or 03. Take it and see that those kids live on a street WHERE Great Grandparents and Grandfathers live, Where their Uncles Live and male cousins., Where the Elder Fan base is so large they fill THE PIT every game. 10,000 plus. An Elder player has the History of FAMILY going to the school. Has nothing to do with OH They Recruit. When a Catholic male in Cincy is born. They are given Elder-St X- Moe or LasSalle Colors. They grow up wanting to play and go to Elder-St X-Moe-LaSalle. That is all the Recruiting the South Div of the GCL needs. It is PRIDE. Be it Elder Purple or St X Blue or LaSalle Red or Moes Blue and Gold. It is PRIDE. Hell I rather go to a GCL game in Cincy then to see a C-Ville or Wayne play. I was at Paul Brown Stadium in 01 when Elder and KY Highland Hgts played in front of 43,000. I have sat in freezing weather with snow falling surrounded by 14,000 Elder fans in Canton to see them win Div One State. I can’t say that about any Dayton team. Heck by half time most Dayton teams would have left. You Dayton FB Fans tickme to no end. Go watcdh a Cincy GCL game then come back and talk about your team.

By frenchie

January 15, 2011 9:48 PM | Link to this

Private school supporters need to quit ignoring the facts that make it obvious to even the lower educated public educated graduates that private schools have advantages in the athletic arena. I think most do realize the private’s have an advantage, the difference of opinion is it unfair. Private’s pay for their kid to have a better education and are not likely to have kids who parents don’t support their kid’s endeavors. That doesn’t mean that public schools don’t have parents who care and support their kids as much as private schools. You have to be an idiot not to recognize how that would favorably impact private schools. I agree with many of the comments that are made about the differences in the support the two systems provide but that just supports the facts that there is a difference that plays into the privates having the advantage. How about we let Alter take on all the kids that don’t have parental support at one of the public’s and let’s see what the does to their performance academically and athletically. There are many great parents and kids in public schools that are put in the same system with parents and kids who don’t really care much about academics or athletics. Many of the parents don’t have the option of paying for a private school or the availability to a private school. Public supporters recognize that privates do have rigorous curriculums and that carries over into the athletics. Somehow that is used as an argument for the privates but they have their nose so far up in the air that they can’t see the truth that is right in front of them.

By ed

January 15, 2011 11:12 PM | Link to this

Did you know that Trotwood just recruited and stole CJ`S Starting QB who is now enrolled at Trotwood,they did the same thing to Alter when they stole Michael Shaw it looks like Trotwood will do whatever it takes to compete.

By The Truth

January 15, 2011 11:36 PM | Link to this

If the OHSAA would simply enforce their own recruiting rules that are already in place, none of this would be necessary. Pariochial schools recruit, anyone that says different is either very ill-informed or simply fooling themselves. But in order to compete, public schools have begun to recruit and it has become more and more blatant over the last few years. I am from eastern Ohio and I can tell you no one recruits more that Steubenville. They were voted out of their Jr. High League because they were openly (and successfully I may add) recruiting kids from other schools at Jr. High events. They even went as far as to recruit kids from outside the state. It’s become a running joke because everyone knows it and they have been reported to the OHSAA on numerous occassions, but the OHSAA refuses to do anything about it. They took an All-Ohio lineman off of a district that doesnt even border their district and that school didnt even bother reporting it because there was so many failed efforts by the OHSAA to do anything about all of the other reports. It’s sad that decency has to be regulated by a state association.

By CatholicSchoolGuy

January 15, 2011 11:56 PM | Link to this

I just read through these comments. Most are just ridiculous. Saying that catholic schools have an unfair advantage because they have the athletes, or can pick who they want is just crazy. Please, go walk the halls of a catholic school, then go walk the halls of a public school. I guarantee you will not see any more athletes in the catholic school. In fact, you will see less. Being from catholic central, I know this is not true nor will it ever be true. Catholic or Private schools are successful because of effort, and care. A lot goes into making them successful. Coaches care and work hard, the student athletes care and work hard. It goes the same in the classroom. Catholic Schools get their results from the time and effort they put it. I know a guy who left the catholic schools to coach at a public school. He has told me the same thing. There is no recruiting that goes on. Recruiting!? Please, give me a break. Again, walk the halls of a catholic school and tell me which one of those kids was recruited… People who throw the fits about catholic and private schools are the ones who have lost to the talentless catholic kids. Therefore they are upset and need an excuse. Try working hard… try preparing… try knowing what you’re doing….

By RamFan

January 16, 2011 12:18 AM | Link to this

@Truth…Ridiculous! Really? We all recruit? How do we do that, by the way. Simply because we advertise? That isn’t recruiting, that is marketing. If WE ALL KNOW the Catholic schools recruit, please give some concrete, specific examples. Just because a kid change from a public school to a private school doesn’t mean he was recruited. As for this myth about free education for athletics, I dare you to show that has happened at ANY of the local Catholic schools in Dayton. As for the others who say Alter draws from 5 counties: Where do you get that? MAYBE they have students from 5, but I bet about 95% of their students come from a radius of about 15 miles around the school. Check their program; they show the schools that their players went to, and the vast majority went to nearby Catholic feeder schools. Want to argue other factors, go ahead; but this crap about alleged recruiting is played out!

By The Best

January 16, 2011 12:36 AM | Link to this

Ok, let’s all be honest here…..how many african-american catholics are their really? Walk into any catholic church and it is pretty much 100% white. About your little elleged recruiting….That is why high school coaches are now going to pop warner football games to find the next big stud football player, tell them to come to their “feeder schools” so it makes it look like they were here all along…Complete BS and I hope the privates go cry to the OHSAA and leave.I’m getting tired of the arrogance and stuck up fans that we have to deal with that are “supporters” of the catholic school.

By enough is enough

January 16, 2011 12:43 AM | Link to this

Ok,I would like to know the amount of students at private schools that ONLY attend classes and are not involved in any out of the classroom events or teams. Now at a public school their are FAR MORE kids who just attend class and are not involved in anthing….Private schools cheat high school sports and anyone who doesn’t see it is ignoring reality.

By RamFan

January 16, 2011 2:15 AM | Link to this

@The Best and enough is enough… Wow, great comeback: Blacks aren’t catholic. Really?!? Again, I say, if you are going to make ridiculous broad statements like that, get your facts. Again, how many players from these teams that allegedly recruit DO NOT come from one of the feeder schools. As for the stuff about recruiting kids: again, a “general statement” about coaches going to “pop warner” football games. Well, first, we don’t have pop warner around here any more. And most of the Catholic school players play in the FEEDER PROGRAMS!!!! Carroll has one, CJ has one and Alter has one and the vast majority of kids go to the Catholic Feeder schools. Once again, your arguments are off the mark and completely invalid. Hard not to feel superior when arguing with someone who can’t form a cogent thought or keep to the topic at hand. Enough…you’re right. There are more kids at Private schools who also participate in sports. Know why? Because most of the schools you speak of are SMALLER (Carroll, Alter and CJ) are D-2 or smaller. You are comparing them to the D1 schools (Fairmont, ‘Creek, Stebbins)…guess what? Go to other smaller/D2 schools (Urbana, Bellefontaine, Franklin, Ross, Kings) and the participatio level is higher also. The smaller the school, the higher the percentage of kids who participate. I will also say that more kids participate because in most Catholic grade schools, participation and extra hard work is TAUGHT and ACCEPTED. So yes, more kids participate…but don’t you DARE say that we keep kids OUT who don’t participate and only let in athletes. Plain and simple: If you can pay the tuition, you can get in to a private school. WE NEED more kids to come to school; we aren’t turning anyone away to keep numbers down. That is a joke……Ignoring reality? YOU are ignoring common sense.

By Steve

January 16, 2011 6:41 AM | Link to this

alter fans can say they do not recruit (tell me about Michael Shaw) but where they have a distinct advantage is drawing kids from five counties, with more than a million people. A team like Coldwater gets all of it’s kids from one small town of four thousand. They all live in Coldwater. That is the difference. By the way, most of the kids at Coldwater are catholic. They had more Catholics than Youngstown Ursaline. R thousand

By gtpjeff

January 16, 2011 7:15 AM | Link to this

thank goodness schools like alter are the root of all the problems in high school football

By BleedsCJGreen&Blue

January 16, 2011 7:28 AM | Link to this

By the way, PUBLIC schools like Coldwater, Minster, New Bremen, St Paris Graham and Marion Local (and many others) will also be negatively impacted by this proposal. They draw from very large geographic areas, have minimal free lunches, and all have rich tournament success histories. Three strikes against them! So in striking a vindictive blow against private schools many schools like those mentioned will be collateral damage. So they also have a dog in this fight, and do you think they will not scream “foul”? I repeat, be careful what you wish for!

By coach24

January 16, 2011 7:39 AM | Link to this

lets take prayer out of schools. lets not call the bomb hail Mary in the public league. lets call the caths league ROME, public league can be the JUDAS. yea, that will separate church and state play offs.THIS IS EXCATLY WHY THE AMISH DONT PLAY FOOTBALL.ALL THROUGH HISTORY THE CATHAHOLICS FEEL THEY ARE THE ELITE THATS WHY THERE IS ALWAYS WAR, WONDER HOW MANY OHHSA GOVERNING BODY ARE CATHLOIC. I don’t know why we cant just have an eighth grade draft for all high schools. state winners pick last. what a joke are school systems are. all of them

By Lucas

January 16, 2011 9:37 AM | Link to this

Jammin, I never mention the big D1 catholic schools did I. I know there attended well, watch Moeller in the 80’s. By the way I watched the Mcnick play roger bacon on TV this year and both sides were half full. Then your making excusses about making it to the game on time. If my team is playing that I follow esplically in the playoffs I’m at the game way before kick off. Only the D1 schools are well attened and when you have 1000 boys in your school shouldn’t they be well attended. Like I said nothing will happen because the Catholic OHSAA members will never stand to have there Catholic schools lose.

By NO BcS

January 16, 2011 11:03 AM | Link to this

We are definitely going in the wrong direction here. The model to follow already exists. Just look to the NCAA for guidance. Fix it the way the NCAA fixed football. Just break off the GCL, MAC, and other top performing conferences. We can call it the “BCS”. These major high schools win the championships, they draw the fans, they make the money for OHSAA. OHSAA should only promote those games and provide funding to drive the success for those programs. The only games broadcast on TV should be qualifying high school BCS teams. In fact, the state of Ohio should fund a cable channel dedicated to only those qualifying schools. Those schools should keep the money they generate by pooling the gate and splitting it only amongst member BCS high schools. Those conferences should be considered automatic qualifiers for state championship tournaments. Schools that don’t qualify as ‘BCS’ should be re-labeled ‘mid-major high schools’ and would not even be eligible to play for the titles. That is only fair. One spot could be left open for a mid-major school that doesn’t meet the “BCS” criteria. That way the best of the ‘non-automatic qualifiers’ or as we can call them ‘mid-major’ high schools can fight it out for that one spot (only though if they are undefeated multiple years in a row). We should definitley emulate college football and make the break at the high school level. The mid-major high schools just don’t deserve it and should not even be in the calculations. That is how the BCS would look if we applied the BCS to Ohio high school football. It really demonstrates how stupid the BCS is when the same mentality is applied locally. Ask Boise, TCU, and locally Miami. High school BCS is the only way to go! Just exclude the mid-major high schools and split the money. Fair is fair.

By NO BcS

January 16, 2011 11:04 AM | Link to this

We are definitely going in the wrong direction here. The model to follow already exists. Just look to the NCAA for guidance. Fix it the way the NCAA fixed football. Just break off the GCL, MAC, and other top performing conferences. We can call it the “BCS”. These major high schools win the championships, they draw the fans, and they make the money for OHSAA. OHSAA should only promote those games and provide funding to drive the success for those programs. The only games broadcast on TV should be qualifying high school BCS teams. In fact, the state of Ohio should fund a cable channel dedicated to only those qualifying schools. Those schools should keep the money they generate by pooling the gate and splitting it only amongst member BCS high schools only. Those conferences should be considered automatic qualifiers for state championship tournaments. Local high schools that don’t qualify as ‘BCS’ should be re-labeled ‘mid-major high schools’ and should not even be eligible to play for the titles. That is only fair. One spot could be left open for a mid-major high school that doesn’t meet the big time “BCS” criteria. That way the best of the ‘non-automatic qualifiers’ or as we can call them ‘mid-major’ high schools can fight it out for that one spot (only though if they are undefeated multiple years in a row). We should definitely emulate college football and make the break at the high school level. The mid-major high schools just don’t deserve it and should not even be in the calculations. That is how the BCS would look if we applied the BCS to Ohio high school football. It really demonstrates how stupid the BCS is when the same mentality is applied locally. Ask Boise, TCU, and locally Miami. High school BCS is the only way to go! Just exclude the mid-major high schools and split the money. Fair is fair.

By DUTCH

January 16, 2011 11:47 AM | Link to this

Facts are facts, the ratio of public to private is almost 8-1, yet in all sports private wins over 45% I am not crying recruiting etc. The fact of the matter is, Alters coach gets to pick from 350 boys, to the most part come from full families, yes, families. do the demographics, compare it to a team like Carlisle who they played in the playoff a year back, look at the free lunch situation, I am sure the number is close to 35% that recieve this help. compared to Alter who probably have less then 2% if any. This means alot more one parent families and financially strapped families. all these factors come into play wether you like it or not. Alters coach gets a bunch of boys that recieve that structure and family stability alot of the other d-4 schools do not. He just has to worry about who he fits into his team structure based around football, Northridges coach has to first Mentor, teach, and do his best with the time he has to slightly mold a partialy responsible young man, then he teaches football. I applaud the OHSAA to factor this in. Is it really fun for Alter to just blow through all the D4 teams every year, until it gets to the final 4 where on occasion they either get beat by another private school or one of the top public schools in the Nation (Coldwater) because that is only shot public d-4 teams have against them. fun fun..NOT!

By George

January 16, 2011 1:03 PM | Link to this

LOL @ those who say Catholic schools do not have any better athletes than the regular public schools. They get to pick the best of the best! Every now and again a public school will be very good, Colerain in ‘05 and Coldwater here recently has fielded some GREAT teams. Year in and year out, Catholics are better and that is how it is. Personally, I do not think they should be completely separated. I think a multiplier should be put in place. It’s not fair that teams like DSJ have only 100 boys in their school and 75 play football. Then they go out and could have put 100 on the board in the state title game. This is because they RECRUIT the football players. Yes, they play a tough schedule and yes they have great tradition, but c’mon! It’s like having an all star team. They have the ability to keep enrollment low, and if you do not think this happens, you are full of it. Small catholic schools make plenty of money from their students, no need for excess. They give tuition breaks to athletes to get them to come, and then if a kid they really want does not have the money, the private boosters fund them. I just think it is not fair. And I did check my facts. A kid is allowed to move from public to private or from private to public without penalty. However, once you are in high school. you cannot transfer without penalty. I think this is unfair. Everyone should be under the same regulations. A kid can move if his family moves, or he stays where he is.

By WHAT?

January 16, 2011 1:06 PM | Link to this

Did I read that correctly???? “Recruiting wars”, I am glad that rumor has finally been confirmed. Maybe the OHSAA should take a look at Alter and their recruiting practices.

By NO BcS

January 16, 2011 1:17 PM | Link to this

When my oldest graduated 23% of the Centerville Football seniors attended her Catholic elementry and middle school. Centerville should be punished for recruiting away 23% of their entire senior class from another school by enticing them with 100% paid scholarships, free food, best in country facilities, and a government that forces taxpayers to pay for it all under penalty of confiscation of personal property and imprisonment. You expect me to believe anyone other than the publics have the advantage?

By George

January 16, 2011 1:17 PM | Link to this

I was not saying Alter is the only one! All Catholic schools do it, some more than others. And yes, There are public schools who do too, Trotwood is a great example, they have been caught! I do not agree with it. I do not think Alter or anyone should be allowed to put out an ad on the radio asking for kids to come to their school. They send out letters and packets to families. It is crazy. If Coldwater, Clinton Massie, or Kenton was sending out info packets to kids from other schools. That is a major rules violation, but Catholic schools can do it all they want!

By Soccer State Champion '80

January 16, 2011 2:43 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Carroll does. They are only very good at Soccer on a very consistent basis. State Champions in ‘80, ‘08 & ‘10. 3 more title opp’s came up short in ‘03, ‘04 & ‘05. Close but no cigar. Let me know if I am wrong on my assumption. Academics were more of a focus from what I recall, sports was a privilege to participate in.

By NO BcS

January 16, 2011 6:28 PM | Link to this

I get a recruiting packet from my public school twice a year. In fact, every household gets one and all tax payers are forced to pay for it whether your kids go to the government school or not. It brags about facilities, success, and future plans and always includes a direct appeal for fundraising through taxes. Publics also get lots of free advertising from the newspapers and other media especially at levy time. Those funds are then used to build more facilities and hire more people. This has a lot to do with the high number of kids recruiting away to public schools where everyone is on scholarship. If you are in a district that can not pass a tax levy…welcome to the world of private schools. Other than the St Xs of the world, most struggle greatly and sacrifice is common.

By man up

January 16, 2011 8:23 PM | Link to this

I’m a little confused as to why the private schools whould fight this proposal.They’ve said they win because of their better coaching,their betterdisapline,the better education at their schools,thier better parent backing etc.No where in this proposal does it take any of those things away from the private schools.If they believe what their saying is the reason for their success thenthey should back this proposal.However as you can see by their response thats not the case why?In the in reather your a coach,a player or a fan that W at the end of the day means a lot.I don’t blame the private schools for fighting the proposal as they know down deep the W’s will be a lot harder to get playing schools on a more equal playing field.Why is it these kids who these schools say they make better seem to lose all of it at the next level,look at the fighting irish in football they don’t time and time again why?Could it be because at the college level schools play by the same rules and have a chance to get their players equally.It;s time to man up a say I;m against the change because we’ll lose that advantage or your for it because believe the reason your winner is what you say they are.Want to bet which they go?

By djay

January 16, 2011 9:51 PM | Link to this

I am an Alter grad from long ago. When I went there the football team made the playoffs for the first time in like 15 years. Alter has a fundraiser every year where alumni donate money to support the school, there are fundraisers throughout the year. Alter has never turned away a deserving student, athlete or not on the merits of financial need. As far as recruiting, I can remember Alter-Dunbar basketball games at UD Arena where every good player in the city went to Dunbar. Are you telling me Dunbar didn’t recruit??

By Logic Please

January 17, 2011 9:30 PM | Link to this

Do not know the correct answer but it is as simple as many of these posts make it out. I believe the Catholic Schools do not really recruit but their open boundries allow good athletes to choose to atted their school. Any why would I not do that as a Parent—- you get a better education for your kid and play for a great program. The real issue is how to fairly account for this fact. The bigger question is why no one wants to address the morality drop in our country that has lead to so many single parent families and the fact that the public schools 100% suck in the urban sttings and pretty much suck if you’re not in the College prep class as every public school!

By idiots

January 17, 2011 9:46 PM | Link to this

Let’t take the current Alter Freshman football team…Someone who says that Catholic schools recruit many of their players PLEASE name for me all of the kids that were recruited vs. ones that attended Catholic grade schools and came up through the Alter feeder program. If you can name two, then I will be thouroughly amazed.

By idiots

January 18, 2011 9:13 AM | Link to this

‘Cmon all you people who say that Catholic schools recruit many of their players. Name two players on Alter’s freshman squad who were recruited. You can’t because almost all of those kids went to Catholic grade schools or played for the Alter feeder program with the intention of going to Alter when they started High school. These are the real facts. You want to believe that schools like Alter are good because a majority of the kids are hand-picked and recruited, but that is just not the case. As I invited you above, prove me wrong with just the example of the Alter freshman squad.

By Coach

January 18, 2011 3:25 PM | Link to this

No matter how you slice it, recruiting is legal, public or private, schools are allowed to market the school to any potential student as long as they are not specifically marketing the athletic program(s). Schools can petition up or down as well, I am pretty sure CJ petitioned up to D1 when Tamika Williams went there. I doubt anything will happen but even if it does, I doubt the Catholic schools will form their own conference. Here is a stat that I want to see, what is the percentage of championships won by schools from Cincinnati and Cleveland compared to the rest of the state? Maybe those two should form their own division and the rest of the state play for different titles, you know, to be fair.

By good-bye

January 19, 2011 4:18 AM | Link to this

Good-bye and good riddance.

By dad

January 19, 2011 2:28 PM | Link to this

My gradeschool son, who is freakishly tall and athletic, was met in the parking lot of a local school last week after a basketball game by a coach from another local but much bigger public school asking him about his future and if he’d like to play for his team. Funny how our local coaches have never seen anyone in the youth program even play.

By BleedsCJGreen&Blue

January 19, 2011 3:43 PM | Link to this

Wow! I guess I never realized just how much jealousy and/or hatred there is out there! If any coach or school really wants a first place trophy to display that badly, just go ask one of these cheater private schools to loan you one. They all have so many they put the overflow in the basement storage room.

By BleedsCJGreen&Blue

January 19, 2011 3:43 PM | Link to this

Wow! I guess I never realized just how much jealousy and/or hatred there is out there! If any coach or school really wants a first place trophy to display that badly, just go ask one of these cheater private schools to loan you one. They all have so many they put the overflow in the basement storage room.