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Home > Blogs > Ohio politics > Archives > 2009 > June > 12 > Entry
Pledge of Allegiance policy slipped into state budget bill
The ACLU of Ohio is calling on lawmakers to remove a provision added to the state budget bill that would prohibit Ohio’s 613 public school districts from passing policies against reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms.
State Sen. Gary Cates, R-West Chester, inserted an amendment in the budget bill after hearing that Oberlin city schools near Cleveland decided in May to stick with its no pledge policy.
Currently, school districts set their own policies on whether the pledge is recited.
If Cates’ amendment becomes law, districts would be barred from passing policies that would prevent teachers from requiring the pledge be recited in their classrooms. The legislation also would prohibit anyone reciting the pledge to alter it in any way, such as adding or removing words, according to the ACLU.
“This is a transparent attempt to force all school districts into mandating the pledge to be recited in all classrooms. Local school districts know their communities best and should be permitted to make decisions that they feel are consistent with those they represent,” ACLU of Ohio Executive Director Christine Link said in a press release.
“In addition, mandating that people may not alter the pledge in any way is a clear violation of their First Amendment rights. The Ohio General Assembly should not be in the business of dictating what people may or may not say and how they may choose to recite the pledge,” Link added.
In a landmark free speech decision in 1943, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that students could not be required to recite the pledge. The legislation would still allow individual students to choose not to recite the pledge.
“I hope they come to their senses or there’s just going to be a lot of expensive and unnecessary legal work coming forward,” Link said.
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Comments
By Leslie
June 14, 2009 9:14 AM | Link to this
Confused, the amendment does not require anyone to do anything. The amendment protects against it being prohibited. Why? Because organizations like the ACLU are trying to stomp out everything that represents America. The ACLU does not want you to be loyal to your own country. If you consider pledging loyalty to your country as repressive, one can only say you are not loyal to anything. You are probably also one of those people that constantly fights for stupid laws taking away our freedoms to make our own choices. I bet you even support all of the Obama policies where government will control everything.By Confused
June 13, 2009 9:53 PM | Link to this
Freedom to do say Pledge of Allegiance. Great. Required time to do so for all school kids: repressive. It’s not difficult. If the goverment is telling you to do something, it’s probably overstepping it’s bounds.By hunkerdown
June 13, 2009 8:11 PM | Link to this
The fascists running this country are in for a rude awakening. No democracy will survive if the people are evil. We can redefine what evil is in the usual lying manner this country has of dealing with issues, but somehow pornoigraphy, pedophilia, drug abuse,murder of human babys, corruption in government are probably not at the top of the list defining civilizations that have survived in the past.By TRS
June 13, 2009 7:43 PM | Link to this
Yet, Washington also said “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” Washington was saying we were not a theocracy but if a democracy is to succeed, it need be based on judeo-Christian values. Even ol’ John Adams said “Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality along, which can establish principles upon which freedom can securely stand.By Brenda
June 13, 2009 5:50 PM | Link to this
I believe all schools in this country should recite the Pledge on a daily basis. After all, it it a pledge to the United States, not just tha flag. If anyone here has a problem with pledging allegiance to the United States, they are more than welcome to leave.By nouse4aname
June 13, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this
Norman: not sure what your post has to do with mine. I am merely refuting the idea that the founding fathers were guided by JudeoChristian morals. “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion-George Washington”. The concept of nationality makes no sense to God, if you believe we are all his children. You are just driving lines between ourselves.By too funny
June 13, 2009 3:53 PM | Link to this
Alanzo you are so full of it….but you do crack me up.By you go leslie
June 13, 2009 1:53 PM | Link to this
So with all these pathetic, “intellectual’ objections to pledging allegiance to the USA…which country deserves our loyalty? Cuba? China? Mexico? You people don’t even realize the implications of your brainwashed, mindless stance.By Leslie
June 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Link to this
Ben you are the one that is confused. Obviously you do not understand what the Pledge of Allegiance is about. Read my earlier posts and get educated. There are people that want to prohibit the pledge of allegiance being said, this amendment simply prevents that from happening. It is sad that in our own country we have to have legislation protecting us from being prohibited from saying the pledge of allegiance. In 2005 legislation was passed to protect us from prohibition of flying the American Flag. Sad that we have to have these laws in our country. The ACLU is a big player in this. If 1 person whines to the ACLU that they are offended, then the ACLU takes away freedoms from all of us. That’s why the ACLU is fighting this. The ACLU does not want anyone pledging allegiance to America.By ben
June 13, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this
Leslie - You’re confused. Removing this amendment to the bill will not be “prohibiting (people from} pledging allegiance to their country.” Anyone could still recite the pledge at any time if their patriotic fervor drives them to do it. And the pledge has nothing to do with loyalty; nor does have anything to do with the United States Constitution. You may want to brush up on that last item (the Constitution) by the way.By Leslie
June 13, 2009 9:53 AM | Link to this
Every country has a flag to represent their country. They even have songs (national anthems) representing their country. People are proud of their countries and loyal to their countries. Why should America be any different? What other country has laws prohibiting pledging allegiance to their country? Why is it wrong to pledge allegiance to your country? If you are not loyal to America, then why do you want to be an American? If you disapprove of our constitution, then why do you want to be an American? This is the 21st century, global, you are free to be whatever you want to be. Don’t like American laws and symbols, then move to the country you like and are loyal too.By Norman Moore
June 13, 2009 9:23 AM | Link to this
By nouse4aname “June 13, 2009 2:12 AM | Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law. Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man -Thomas Jefferson Guys need to get your fact straight. We were founded on a basis of liberty. Which means freedom of religion and speech!” To the contrary God and Creator are used throughout the Constitution. They meant that this new Government should not establish an official State Religion. They never meant to exclude God which is a concept common to all religion. Atheism is not a religion but the lack of one so it doesn’t count in that sense. Thomas Jefferson was a deist but not an advocate of Christianity. Big difference, read some more and get all of the facts.By me
June 13, 2009 9:19 AM | Link to this
This is to John, the idiot. Before you respond to anything, might I suggest you do some research on the ACLU so as not to make yourself appear retarded?By Lasermoth
June 13, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this
This is why I support the ACLU. Our Republican legislators are continually pandering to the fear and prejudice of narrow-minded fundamentalists. Hold on kids, here’s a scary one for you: God is not a person, and the Creative power doesn’t require your kudos.By Spitbaby
June 13, 2009 8:28 AM | Link to this
Freethinker: immigrants prior to WWII made this country great. Immigrants after WWII have turned the US into a 3rd world country.By t-dayton
June 13, 2009 7:53 AM | Link to this
the pledge is totally lame, scrap it.By Jim
June 13, 2009 7:48 AM | Link to this
It is the Constitution and constitutional tradition that distinguishes Americans from others; not a creed or ethnicity.By Jim
June 13, 2009 7:44 AM | Link to this
Members of the federal government, from the president on down, pledge allegiance not to the flag but to the Constitution (and Bill of Rights).By nouse4aname
June 13, 2009 2:12 AM | Link to this
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law. Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man -Thomas Jefferson Guys need to get your fact straight. We were founded on a basis of liberty. Which means freedom of religion and speech!By fed up with clowns
June 13, 2009 12:41 AM | Link to this
What beliefs would that be John F. Homosexuality, abortion, dru guse, kiddie porn, pedophila….Yea you liberals have a real strong record of honor and truth…as well as a true sense of obligation towards the military. I guarantee when you come knocking I’m not running anywhere.standing your ground onBy hey johnf
June 13, 2009 12:31 AM | Link to this
Don’t worry John..you’re going to get your wish soon enough….and it won’t be any middle east scenario stud.By resident
June 13, 2009 12:27 AM | Link to this
..of any citizen with any common sense in this country. As usual the ACLU represents the fringe element…including you two clowns.By resident
June 13, 2009 12:24 AM | Link to this
Wow Jim and Cameron..what incredible intellectuals you are. So other than the differences you mention concerning the AVERAGE man and woman, the question remains…when will the ACLU represent the average citizen in this country? Contrary to your obviously biased views of American conservatives, the KLAN does not meet any of the requirements mentioned earlier. If you both could come down off of your high horses for a minute and control your obvious hatred for the country that has provided you with the ability to spout your hatred for this countryand views the KLAN is not representitiveBy Pharrell
June 13, 2009 12:06 AM | Link to this
So you’re a Christian then. Do you understand, though, that there are good and moral people out there who are not?By Dee
June 12, 2009 11:45 PM | Link to this
The one true God. The only one aloud in our classrooms years ago. The one our country was founded on. “one nation Under God”. does not refer to any other God but the God of Abraham.By Pharrell
June 12, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this
What God are you speaking of, Dee? Ra? Zeus? Odin? Quetzalcoatl? Allah? Vishnu? Yahweh? You use “god” like that somehow narrows it down to one entity.By Dee
June 12, 2009 11:13 PM | Link to this
We take God out of the schools, kids get killed, raped and have no morals. (And when something goes wrong we ask where was God?) Remove our founding believes of this country and you are raising a generation that has no respect for their country. So don’t ask why we are not a free country with liberty and justice for all in 20 years…God help us…oh that’s right we don’t need God? I guess we don’t need this country either.By John F
June 12, 2009 11:00 PM | Link to this
To all Republicans- Just leave if this is the best that you have to offer in moving this country forward. First graders have better ideas on how to improve this country. And that is not meant to be an insult to first graders. I for one want another civil war if it means getting rid of Republicans who want to infringe upon my beliefs. Would never happen though. Kind of hard to fight someone when you have to chase them…By Bill
June 12, 2009 10:06 PM | Link to this
Well we’ve heard from “Dan” who I take is brain injured who can only comment on people he doesn’t like because of their race. Tiny minds like his are exactly the reason the ACLU exists. I happen to say the “Pledge” often myself but they better never try and pass a law to force me or my kids to say it. I am a Vietnam Vet and will defend your right to be athiest,jew, muslem or any religion or lack of it you choose. There are way to many people, mostly right wingers that can only justify their beliefs by shoving them down every one else’s throat. Then there’s morons like Dan that should not be allowed to reproduceBy Jim
June 12, 2009 8:32 PM | Link to this
From reading all the comments, it’s obvious Dayton isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. The ACLU is reacting to yet another slight of hand by the GOP, which added this provision to a totally unrelated bill. (Just like firearms in the National Parks) The GOP wants to impose their rhetoric sense of morality and patriotism, while helping the rich get richer. It’s smoke and mirrors on the grandest scale. The ACLU is correct in this case because of the 1943 Supreme Court ruling, and will win easily if it goes to court. Say the pledge with your children before they go off to school in the morning if it’s that important.By sparkey
June 12, 2009 7:34 PM | Link to this
If we allow the government to get away with this, then what is next? An amendment saying you must pray to a catholic God?By Bender
June 12, 2009 7:10 PM | Link to this
What Country do we live in again???… Because this is a load of BS! I had to learn the Pledge in school and my kids better learn it to, and have to say it every dayBy dan
June 12, 2009 6:59 PM | Link to this
the usa has already gone to hell!! busing,blacks tearing up every neighborhood they move into and all the porchmonkey politics we have in the white house wow has america gone to hell!!!By Freethinker
June 12, 2009 6:34 PM | Link to this
America was originally started as a trading post and nothing else. It wasn’t until 100 years later that the Puritans came over to America. Unless you are Native American you are from an immigrant family. Everyone should remember that fact. Also, it is Freedom from religion. That means that you can practice ANY religion or non at all.By Philman
June 12, 2009 6:30 PM | Link to this
The aclu is on record defending Kiddie Porn, &the north american man boy love assoc.they hate GOD, they are aDiscusting group of WEIRDOSBy Jason
June 12, 2009 5:50 PM | Link to this
The ACLU is carefully orchestrating the creation of laws that make it legal to discriminate based on religion. Look at their history and you will find they always back anti-religious and anti-American views. All this while using our own judicial system to promotehatred.By john
June 12, 2009 5:27 PM | Link to this
The ACLU has never done a positive thing. I did not vote for the ACLU and don’t need those thugs making choices for me. Who is the ACLU to decide what is right or wrong? Who elected them? Who appointed the jerks? Why are you morons following that bunch of idiots?Why have you decided to follow a group none of us were asked to join, where are their meetings? They are obsessed with abortion and whacko agendas. Screw them and anyone who suppots themBy Waiting for carnage...
June 12, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this
All of your points of view will be moot when all of us start killing one another on a grand scale…and it’s coming…By Pat
June 12, 2009 5:12 PM | Link to this
It should be required, they removed prayer and look what happened. The ACLU and the liberal idiots and atheists have ruined the country. Don’t like it, leave, go to Liberia. Take your stupid rap music with youBy Emily
June 12, 2009 5:05 PM | Link to this
Since when is it the school’s decision or the state’s decision whether or not I recite the Pledge of Allegiance or alter it (ie. leaving out the part about God). It’s no one’s business but my own whether I say any part of it or sit down through the whole thing.By Jim
June 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
Leslie, Patriotism is a maggot in your head.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this
The amendment does NOT force anyone to say the Pledge of Allegiance. The amendment protects your right to say the Pledge of Allegiance. The amendment protects you from having the Pledge of Allegiance banned. An Ohio school district has decided to keep its policy of not having students say the Pledge of Allegiance during the school day. Voting 3-2 earlier this week, the Oberlin school board rejected a plan from Superintendent Geoffrey Andrews. His compromise proposal would have allowed the pledge to be read over school public address systems a few days per month and without the words “under God,” which were added to the pledge by Congress in the 1950s. One parent whose children hold Dutch and U.S. passports said he wasn’t comfortable having them publicly proclaim allegiance to one country. Don Damyanic said the flag represents patriots, such as the rescuers who raised the flag at ground zero or the escaped slaves who traveled through Oberlin to obtain their freedom. Damyanic, whose parents immigrated to the United States from a Communist country, said living elsewhere would convince all Americans to “beg to come back here so you can say that pledge.” “You can choose not to say the Pledge of Allegiance and I will go to my death to defend you,” Damyanic said. Without the amendment the ACLU will continue to work to wipe out our entire heritage.By flipper
June 12, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this
Scrap the pledge. Along with the oath taken by all military members (that has God in it too). Let’s not stand for anything anymore. Yet “do waht you like” and nothing to knit us all together any more.By what?
June 12, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
I agree with the ACLU this time around..why should we not have the right to choose. Schools should have the right to decide. That is what freedom is all about. What part of that cant you rednecks understand?By what?
June 12, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
I agree with the ACLU this time around..why should we not have the right to choose. Schools should have the right to decide. That is what freedom is all about. What part of that cant you rednecks understand?By the Strawboss
June 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this
ACTUALLY, the Pledge was ALREADY altered from its original form. “Under God” was added LATER and not by the original author. Look it up.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 3:43 PM | Link to this
The thirteen stripes stand for the thirteen colonies revolting against the British government. There are fifty stars in the blue rectangle above the stripes which depict the fifty U.S. states. The white color signifies purity and peace. The red hue symbolizes valor, courage, enthusiasm, blood and life while the blue color indicates perseverance, justice, and vigilance. The stars in the flag according to tradition are associated with heaven and how the nation aspires to achieve it where as the stripes are the light rays from the sun. The official day the flag was made is June 14, 1777 and it was in this day that the congress of US finalized the red and white stripes alternation design of the flag with the blue rectangle containing fifty stars. The blue canton is also named as the “Union” because of its symbolism. The flag truly embodies a whole lot of implications that enable individuals to band together as citizens of a specific country. Without the common goals and symbolisms that the flag brings, it would definitely be difficult for a country to prosper and to inculcate to its citizens, the value of patriotism and nationalism that they are reminded of whenever they see the flag.By Cameron
June 12, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this
dang, jim beat me at pointing out aclu acorn’s incredible ignorance. It seems that people simply bash “Anti-American” things like the ACLU without actually knowing what they are about. When will people realize that issues aren’t simply black and white.By Cameron
June 12, 2009 3:37 PM | Link to this
You mean like when they sent a jewish laywer to represent the KKK when they denied the right to protest? or is a white supremacist not white american male enough for you??By jim
June 12, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
aclu acorn, the aclu represented the KKK so that they could publicly march in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood in Skokie, Ill. Those marchers probably satisfied most of your citeria, except I wouldn’t consider them “conservative.”.”.”By aclu acorn
June 12, 2009 3:23 PM | Link to this
Just once I would love to see the ACLU represent a taxpaying, white, male, non homosexual conservative, married with 2 children and a job who pays his nmortgage and taxes and attends church. Just once.By resident
June 12, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
Alexander Hamilton WAS a good American..he spoke the language, had a job, was educated and a love for his adopted country. That’s a huge difference from the American hating, ethnically proud…to the worst degree..non- english speaking, unemployed scammers that come in to this country now…from everywhere. There is so much truth to the line love it or leave it. If you REALLY hate this country so badly then why are you here? It’s no longer a cliche..it’s a legit question.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why Oberlin city schools prohibits the pledge. But if you read what is happening around the country, you will find that it only takes 1 person to complain and the ACLU fights for that 1 person. In other words if 1 parent doesn’t want the Pledge of Allegiance than the ACLU gets it shut down for all.By jim
June 12, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this
mendoblather, you obviously believed everything you learned in high school and haven’t picked up a book since.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this
The amendment does not force anyone to do anything. The amendment is protecting the right to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I guess many of you have missed the fact that the ACLU has been trying to shut down our history and our symbols. Did you know that it 2005 Congress passed legislation protecting our right to fly our flag. Now why would we need legislation giving us that right? The ACLU. The ACLU is trying to remove the flag, the ACLU is trying to remove crosses from veteran’s cemetary’s. Pay attention the ACLU is trying to remove anything that has anything to do with our heritage. The amendment is protecting our right to say the Pledge of Allegiance.By Josh
June 12, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this
And Leslie - taking an “oath” to the country doesn’t make you a good American. I don’t always agree with the ACLU, but this time I do. Slipping a policy like that into a budget bill is bad. I hate how politicians can do that.By Josh
June 12, 2009 2:49 PM | Link to this
Horrible. I didn’t recite the pledge my entire senior year at Troy because it seemed pointless. If you listened to the class it was just a bunch of drones repeating something that had been “brainwashed” into their heads for the past 12 years.By Jim
June 12, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this
Leslie, Thanks for the history lesson, but did you read the article? There was a Supreme Court ruling in 1943 that says you can’t force students to say the pledge. The ACLU is spot on in this matter and will win easily.By Jeff
June 12, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this
Alonzo, I am all for free speech. However, when students are taught the Pledge, they should be taught the correct words, not an altered version based on a teacher’s opinion. Additionally, when the teacher tells a class that they are going to recite the Pledge, the they should recite it correctly. If they choose not to, that is their free speech option. If they purposefully recite it using different words, they are not following directions and are not showing discipline or respect. A teacher saying it’s time to say the pledge is not permission for a sutdent to “exercise free speech” by reciting the words to their favorite song or TV commercial. Additionally, if a teacher choses not to recite the pledge in class, they still have that option. The amendment is in place to prevent the administration from telling teachers that they are not allowed to recite the pledge.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 2:38 PM | Link to this
I Pledge Allegiance (I Promise to be faithful and true) to the flag (to the emblem that stands for and represents) of the United States (all 50 states, each of them individual, and individually represented on the flag) of America (yet formed into a UNION of one Nation) and to the Republic (And I also pledge my loyalty to the Government that is itself a Republic, a form of government where the PEOPLE are sovereign,) for which it stands, (this government also being represented by the Flag to which I promise loyalty) Indivisible, (and can not be separated. (This part of the original version of the pledge was written just 50 years after the beginning of the Civil War and demonstrates the unity sought in the years after that divisive period in our history) with Liberty (The people of this Nation being afforded the freedom to pursue “life, liberty, and happiness”,) and Justice (And each person entitled to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper law and principle,) for All. (And these principles afforded to EVERY AMERICAN, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, or any other criteria. Just as the flag represents 50 individual states that can not be divided or separated, this Nation represents millions of people who can not be separated or divided.) Sounds like something our children should be taught. Why would the ACLU want to shutdown loyalty to our country? Why does the ACLU want to divide the citizens of this country? one Nation under God, (These 50 individual states are united as a single Republic under the Divine providence of God, “our most powerful resource” (according to the words of President Eisenhower)By Jesus
June 12, 2009 2:36 PM | Link to this
Did everyone miss the part where I said “love one another”? Christians are too pissed off, that’s why I choice to be Jewis.By mendoblather
June 12, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this
“you’ve been drinking some serious atheistic kool-aid if you think that the Founding Fathers were not primarily Christians.” Perfect example of someone who never actually studied in high school. The ACLU represented both Ollie North and Rush Windbag. Liberals?By alanzo
June 12, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this
Well, this has been an amusing little side show, but I have other responsibilities that will occupy me for the rest of the day. It’s been entertaining seeing how many rightwing loudmouths are willing to posture and beat their breasts. Keep up the good work, all you mighty keyboard warriors.By JD
June 12, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this
As a student, I get tired of reciting the pledge EVERY SINGLE DAY. Furthermore, why don’t adults do it at work? Why do only students have to do it? Isn’t it enough to pledge our allegiance one or two times through a year? It’s not like we’ll change our minds overnight. I’m sure most of you adults would gripe if you had to say the pledge before you began work.By alanzo
June 12, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this
“I am VERY opinionated and PROUD of it, “Alanzo”! ” We noticed. You certainly have the right to blab to your heart’s content. Everybody else has the right to listen to you (or not) and laugh if they choose. And if you decide to judge people based on trivial things like board names, you deserve all the laughter that heads your way. A long time ago, I used to post on another board as “AtheistPatriot”. If I had used that name here, I suspect I’d have heard your head explode.By Chris
June 12, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this
I’m all for the students saying the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. It’s about time somebody stood up for Old Glory and gave her the respect she deserves. God Bless America.By socal buckeye
June 12, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this
Easy fix. If your district opts to not recite the pledge of allegiance once a week, your district doesn’t get ANY stte funds.By alanzo
June 12, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this
“Why would any American not want to take an oath of loyalty to our country?” So much for the right of free speech. (That also ignores any religious beliefs — there are some religions that don’t allow for oaths. Of course, you probably believe those religions don’t count.)By American Made
June 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this
I am VERY opinionated and PROUD of it, “Alanzo”!By American Made
June 12, 2009 2:11 PM | Link to this
AMEN Brenda & Leslie!!!! Can I get a Hellelujah?By Leslie
June 12, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this
The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States flag is an oath of loyalty to the nation of the United States of America. An oath of loyalty. Why would any American not want to take an oath of loyalty to our country? ACLU has no loyalty to America. ACLU should be disbanded. Maybe we American citizens should sue the ACLU for destroying and attacking our country and our heritage.By alanzo
June 12, 2009 2:06 PM | Link to this
“Alonzo…what nationality is that? Hmmm. American? I think NOT. Shut up and go back where you came from. ” Better to be silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it. You had to go open your mouth, I see. “Alanzo” is a ‘pen name’. You honestly think I’d use my real name here? I prefer to set little traps and see which bigoted loudmouth idiot walks into them.By alanzo
June 12, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
“You came here to get away from something bad in your country. Don’t try to change us or call us wrong. Except and learn the values of people that you came to live with!” Oh, I get it — you think that because I’m using the handle “Alanzo” here, that I’m an immigrant or somehow not a native. Well, that shows you to be the fool. “Alanzo” is not my real name; it’s a handle I picked to find out who judges based on trivial surface appearances. You totally failed that test. Perhaps you should stop judging a book by it’s cover and start thinking about deeper meanings. Of course, thinking requires actual mental work, while stereotyping and bigoted reactions are just reflex. Sorry to disappoint you — I’m an American native, Anglo-saxon descent, born in Michigan. On the other hand, I do admire your commitment to the Constitutional principles of freedom of speech and belief. Not.By American Made
June 12, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
AMEN Brenda & Leslie!!!! Can I get a Hellelujah?By Cletus
June 12, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
American Made: Nationality and Religion are not the same thing. I suggest you purchase a dictionary (or go to dictionary.com) it will help in your horrendous spelling as well.By jim
June 12, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
What makes a native born American more worthy of this country’s oppotunities than a naturalized citizen? Alexander Hamilton wasn’t born in what is now the United States. Do you think he was a bad american?By brenda
June 12, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this
C’mon! Are people such wimps and pansies these days that they cannot simply not say the word God when they recite? Can they not just ask to be excused from the room? Can they not just think of their chosen deity while they recite? Why does everything have to be legislated to death? Can’t the people just drive by things like the ten commandments on marble in front of the courthouse and look the other way? Why does everyone think THEY are so special?By American Made
June 12, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this
Alonzo…what nationality is that? Hmmm. American? I think NOT. Shut up and go back where you came from.By Leslie - I love you!
June 12, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this
You go Leslie!By no change
June 12, 2009 1:54 PM | Link to this
You came here to get away from something bad in your country. Don’t try to change us or call us wrong. Except and learn the values of people that you came to live with!By Leslie
June 12, 2009 1:53 PM | Link to this
‘In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.’ Theodore Roosevelt 1907By alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:53 PM | Link to this
“Incorrect Alanazo the vast majority were Episcopal, Quaker or Puritan background with some Baptists thrown in for good measure.” You are apparently looking at the “Founding Fathers” on the Adherents.com web site. Since that document doesn’t list “Deist” AT ALL, it’s reliability is open to question.By Change
June 12, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this
If you were not born here, then go home and change your 100 year tradition. If you don’t want to pledge allegiance to the flag of the country you live in, then go somewhere else and live! Go home!By alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
“if you can’t handle having the work God in your face, go somewhere where it is illegal,” If you plan on pushing the word “God” into people’s faces in violation of their rights, you should be prepared to have something less pleasant pushed back into yours. “i am also here to have religious freedoms, why should mine be taken so you can not hear the work God?” When your rights interfere with my rights, who wins? Your rights do not override anybody else’s rights.By taz
June 12, 2009 1:47 PM | Link to this
Lea, This is America was built on American values most that are bitching about this are mostly not American they came to our country live like it has beenBy American Made
June 12, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this
I like Leslie and Jim. Americans unite. If you aren’t American and don’t like our beiefs and values we’ve built this country on, you are FREE to leave.By commonsenseaswell
June 12, 2009 1:43 PM | Link to this
for those of you who just LOVE the aclu, did you know they also have sued our government because we didn’t let a child sex group whose motto was “if there 8 it’s too late” meet at a school auditorium for its meetings place? get a grip folks, aclu is bad, period, if they are for it, it’s bad for you. if you can’t handle having the work God in your face, go somewhere where it is illegal, i am also here to have religious freedoms, why should mine be taken so you can not hear the work God? get a grip..By ks
June 12, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
We have allowed activist judges and the likes of the ACLU to bring us to a very desolate and sad place. The Founders would not recognize America…By step away
June 12, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
OK everyone. Put down your crack pipes for a minute. Anything tacked on to any bill should not surprise you. No one proposed you have to say the pledge, just that you cannot ban saying the pledge.By KevinBob
June 12, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
Hows come the minority groups are always trying to push and dominate with their beliefs and policies as if they are the majority? This might happen in a dictatorship or a totalitarian like governed country but not in a democratic government like this country is presently and in the past.By no alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
Incorrect Alanazo the vast majority were Episcopal, Quaker or Puritan background with some Baptists thrown in for good measure. Quit trying to rewrite history for your own adgenda.By ID10T Lister
June 12, 2009 1:36 PM | Link to this
ID10T List - 1) hakko 2) rob 3) skeptic 4) eddie 5) jerry curl 6) Stephen bickford 7) Jim 8) Thomas 9) Real American 10) American made 11) Me 12) TiredBy jim
June 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
Alanzo, you’ve been drinking some serious atheistic kool-aid if you think that the Founding Fathers were not primarily Christians.By Insert
June 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Link to this
ACLU - what a collection of ID10Ts. The bill said you can’t prohibit the Pledge in schools. And if they say it thay cannot change it.By Leslie
June 12, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
The ACLU is unAmerican. They have been trying to remove everything about our history. The flag represents Americans freedom from tyranny. The flag represents America and her people. It was wrong to stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance. Every American should pledge Allegiance to her country. Pledging Allegiance to your country does not take any liberty’s away. The ACLU has been trying to ban the American Flag, they are trying to ban crosses at Veteran cemetary’s and memorials. And yes we were found on judeo-christian values. Another bad thing the ACLU has done. Destroying our history so that so many of you have no clue what our history is. How can have of you call yourself American and not be proud of your Flag.By resident
June 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
Air FARCE? This branch is not even recognized as being a military organization. I’ll bet you took a medical just like the other 99 percent didn’t you? Thanks for making sure we sometimes hit the dropzone..really appreciate it..on the way back to your air conditioning.By unreal
June 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this
So Frank you are now making excuses for terrorist bombings in the USA? Man, you are one sick dude.By L Berry
June 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this
I served in the USAF for over 20 years to protect the rights of all Americans. But I am getting a little upset in how many of out Patriotic symbols are being taken away by Liberal lawmakers and other non-God believing people. Notice I didn’t say citizens. Many illegal immigrants are voicing opinions against what we stand for. Enough is enough!!!By L Berry
June 12, 2009 1:22 PM | Link to this
I served in the USAF for over 20 years to protect the rights of Americans. But I am getting a little upset in how many of out Patroatic symbols are being taken away by Liberal lawmakers and other non-God Believing peoiple. Notice i DBy good point
June 12, 2009 1:22 PM | Link to this
Excellent point actually. So quit your job and head to Iraq where you can live the dream. I kind of like it here. Suicide bombers seem to make the same point..but take a lot of family ans friends with them. Just an observation.By Frank
June 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
Perhaps if the US wasn’t in the business of forcing our beliefs onto other nations at gunpoint there would be fewer people out there who would go as far as suicide bombing US targets.By hey frank
June 12, 2009 1:15 PM | Link to this
What do you care Frank if troops are sent to Albania. Just shutup, keep blogging and start screaming when the 1st suicide bomber hits the USABy alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this
“What ever happened to the old belief, the majority rules” Simple: the majority cannot vote to take rights away from the minority.By alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Link to this
“The bill does not force anyone to recite the Pledge. It does prevent school systemds from infringing on the rights of those who wish to recite it. It protects free speech.” OK, so far. “As for the clause saying that it cann’ot be changed, that’s a simple act to prevent people from perverting a nationally recognized and documented message.” At the cost of violating the free speech rights of somebody else. Are you saying you’re for free speech, only so long as you approve of it? Make up your mind, would you?By alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
“Why don’t all of you ateists, democrats, natzis, and the rest who do not like this country go to some oppressive country and leave the rest of us alone.” What? And leave the country in the hands of a bunch of bigoted ignoramuses? Not a chance.By CommenSense2
June 12, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this
We must all see that cramming a law about the pledge into a budget bill is politics as usual, and unfortunately not the first time these things happen. We need the ACLU and others to point these things out, before there are more liberties taken away. Is prohibiting the pledge any worse than mandating it? Is saying it without the “under God” not changing it as the bill prohibits. There is no freedom in the U.S. that is not under attack from our own legislators.By The Old Cold Warrior
June 12, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this
Hey, they can always protest by changing the words: “I pledge allegiance to the FAGs of the United States of America…”By alanzo
June 12, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this
“Our nation was founded by a bunch of Christians.” Uh, no. Actually, while the Founding Fathers had between them a large variety of beliefs, the primary religious belief was Deism, which is most certainly NOT the same as Christianity. Thomas Jefferson even went so far as to edit his own version of the Bible, with large amounts of writing removed (mostly about the divinity of Jesus). America was most definitely NOT “founded by Christians”. It’s also worth noting that the phrase “under God” was not put in the Pledge until 1954, as part of the Commie Scare of the ’50s.By Jeff
June 12, 2009 1:04 PM | Link to this
I agree taht a budget bill is a silly place to insert this amendment. However, people complaining about the bill are misrepresenting what it says. The bill does not force anyone to recite the Pledge. It does prevent school systemds from infringing on the rights of those who wish to recite it. It protects free speech. As for the clause saying that it cann’ot be changed, that’s a simple act to prevent people from perverting a nationally recognized and documented message. The Pledge is what it is. If you don’t agree, don’t recite it, but your disagreement doesn’t give the right to prevent others from reciting.By jk
June 12, 2009 1:02 PM | Link to this
Why don’t all of you ateists, democrats, natzis, and the rest who do not like this country go to some oppressive country and leave the rest of us alone.By tbill
June 12, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
Is the majority “Gay”? Yet they have rights. So it’s NOT only the majority who have rights, people. Sieg Heil, senator Cates!By Frank
June 12, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this
Our troops aren’t fighting for our freedoms, they’re fighting so that Bush and Cheney can flex their muscle in the middle east and lay down some oil pipeline. Our freedom’s have been in danger from the Bush administration more in the past 8 years than they have been by any foreign bodies. For that I appreciate the ACLU for fighting against atrocities such as the USAPATRIOT Act.By lawabider
June 12, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this
I refuse to say “indivisible” because that undermines the previously American value of government by consent of the governed. If someone believes the coercive force of government should be used to get kids to say what they want them to say, that person has no idea what liberty means.By Eyes Open
June 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this
Religion is a joke. Christians get so crazy over anyone would doesn’t believe in their ghost story.By Think about it
June 12, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
Skeptic - you are correct in that “Freedom does not protect itself.” However, it is our US Armed Forces and NOT the ACLU that has, is, and will continue to protect our Freedom.By tired
June 12, 2009 12:23 PM | Link to this
Guess what Lea, the pledge was written by a socialist and originally involved a salute quite similar to the nazi salute. “of the United States of America” was only added so that immigrants would know which flag they were talking about. Go ahead, freak out. If someone believes that saying a pledge to a flag is the same as worshipping an idol, they shouldn’t be forced to do it. Respect is more important than conformity.By me
June 12, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this
i am not even really sure i know what that means, but that was awfully snide for someone stating an comment in the comment spot of the pageBy jim
June 12, 2009 12:13 PM | Link to this
Me, watching someone recite the pledge of allegiance can hardly be compared to the religious persecution suffered by those in Europe in pre-colonial times. Also, the Christians who came to the new world prevented all sorts of horrendus activities of the natives, such as child sacrifice and cannabalism.By Daytonian
June 12, 2009 12:10 PM | Link to this
ajmorris, you really should get back to work. Your partner is going to need someone to pay the bills this month. If you don’t want to say the pledge, fine. Just shut up.By me
June 12, 2009 12:05 PM | Link to this
what is really interesting is that the people who were here first were Not christians, but the chrisitians killed them and their children to make this country what they wanted (even when it definitely was not their’s to take). and we are proud of what?By fedup
June 12, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
I wish they would pass something in our Government that would force the a.c.l.u to take the word American out of their name.By me
June 12, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
lea, didn’t people come here to escape religious persecution? interesting….By Lea
June 12, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this
Our nation was founded by a bunch of Christians. The rest of you - you’re still a minority. ONE NATION UNDER GOD. Period.By me
June 12, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
I refused to say the pledge a single day in my schooling, and it genuinely offends me that the schools try to get my to say the word’god’. i never have and never will believe in such a thing, and my son should never have to say it! (or hear it chanted in his face) in his schools.By me
June 12, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
I refused to say the pledge a single day in my schooling, and it genuinely offends me that the schools try to get my to say the word’god’. i never have and never will believe in such a thing, and my son should never have to say it! (or hear it chanted in his face) in his schools.By marco polo
June 12, 2009 11:55 AM | Link to this
@Grandma Sue: “Red-light cameras without benefit of trial… ” either you’re in the intersection when the light is red, or you’re not. it’s pretty cut and dry. if you happen to be in an emergency situation, well, deal with it. it doesn’t go against your insurance. @Stephen Bickford — you invoked Godwin’s Law and immediately lose the argument. “under God” should never have been added. which god are we under, anyway? Dionysus? oh, no, presumably the judeo-christian god. but what if you’re hindu? or buddhist? or gasp think for yourself and don’t rely on something that can’t be reliably and repeatably tested. “liberty and justice for all” is a grand gesture, but we need to disassociate ourselves with intolerance-breeding religion like christianity if we want to live up to that pledge.By Relax 2009
June 12, 2009 11:55 AM | Link to this
No one should be forced to say the pledge, or to say anything they are not comfortable with. However, as Americans I think the pledge is something we should all want to say and something that we should respect.By jim
June 12, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this
american made, naturalized citizens probably know more about american history than native born americans. I wonder if you love-it-or-leave-it types could pass the citixenship test.By coll
June 12, 2009 11:51 AM | Link to this
What ever happened to the old belief, the majority rules. Seems like one person can b!tch and win over the majority.By Rick
June 12, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
The ACLU are a bunch of hippy, dope smoking, left wing radicals who would glady represent Osma bin Laden than protect our countyr.By American Made
June 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
And I agree with the fella below - you don’t like it here - get on a plane and leave. A$$holes are ruining this great country. I think anyone not born an aAmerican citizen should have to stufdy up and write an essay on the Pledge.By Real American
June 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
This is not a godly nation with all the rhetoric I have read so far. This “love it or leave it” philosophy is un American. Remember that at one time WE were the immigrants coming here and we took the Native American’s land and rights from them.By Bill
June 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
Unfortunately politics as usual, but I agree with this one. I grew up in the fifties after “under God” was added and have come full circle to understand just what that means today.By Tomas
June 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this
This is typical right-wing stuff with taking away people’s rights in mandating things. It is up to schools, teachers, and districts to set their own policies. So much for states rights and GOP’s belief in it.By American Made
June 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this
This is AMERICA. Not India Mexico Asia or the Middle East. Until we were flooded by people (especially illegal aliens) from other countries, we didn’t have to walk on Eggshells so as not to offend some other countries’ religion. ONE NATION UNDER GODBy hmm
June 12, 2009 11:39 AM | Link to this
If you do not want to say “Under God”, then do not say it! I find it wrong to force schools to remove the pledgefrom being said.By CommonSense
June 12, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this
Well Jim, there are flights that leave daily for other great civilizations more free than ours…happy travels.By jim
June 12, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this
The pledge is a sham anyway. Our nation is not “under God” and there is no “liberty and justice for all.” It’s just a way to brainwash schoolchildren into thinking that we are “free.”By CommonSense
June 12, 2009 11:18 AM | Link to this
I’ll restate: The bill doesn’t mandate that the Pledge must be said. It precludes a district from enacting a rule that prohibits it from being said. No lawmaner in any state is required to have a background in law - or any other formal training - to become a legislator and write and pass bills.By Grandma Sue
June 12, 2009 11:12 AM | Link to this
Buy 5 kegs of beer in Ohio, sign away your right’s to having a warrant-less search. Commit a sex offense 20 years ago, end up being humiliated on a public registry for the rest of your life… Red-light cameras without benefit of trial… It was only a matter of time before lawmakers mandated what our children must be exposed to in the classroom. The most amazing thing: Lawmakers in Ohio don’t have to have ANY background, training, or formal education in law - to pass Bills and enact laws. Huh?By Frank
June 12, 2009 11:11 AM | Link to this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Pledge_salue.jpgBy CommonSense
June 12, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this
They also chanted for Hitler much in the same way people were chanting for Obama. You just can’t compare the two.By Eddie
June 12, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this
The pledge exsisted for 62 years (1892 - 1954) without the words “Under God” in it and we did just fine. Sadly there isn’t an action item on the ACLU’s website for this. However there are links there on contacting your local representatives yourself though.By Stephen Bickford
June 12, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this
You can’t have a truly fascist state without a mandatory pledge of allegiance.The people in Germany had to say “Heil Hitler.”By william ayers
June 12, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NEAR OBERLIN SHOULD NOT RECEIVE ANY FUNDS. I DOUBT IF OBAMA SAID THE PLEDGE OF ALLIGENCE IN SCHOOL. THE ACLU SUCKS.By CommonSense
June 12, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
Climb down off your soapbox Eddie. It’s time the majority who support the pledge take this country back.By Jerry Curl
June 12, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
What does the pledge of allegiance have to do with the budget?By william ayers
June 12, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT NEAR OBERLIN SHOULD NOT RECEIVE ANY FUNDS. I DOUBT IF OBAMA SAID THE PLEDGE OF ALLIGENCE IN SCHOOL. THE ACLU SUCKS.By Eddie
June 12, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this
Under god was added to the Pledge (and to money) in the 50’s during the Cold War to separate the US from the godless Soviets. Its sickening, and a show of whats wrong with our government that a simple budget bill can’t be passed without some politician attaching something that supports their own interests to it. I support the ACLU on this one. If this shyster wants his Pledge bill passed then get it passed on its own.By CommonSense
June 12, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
The bill doesn’t require it be said. It simply says districts can’t prohibit it being said. And if you don’t believe in ‘god’ don’t say that part.By 1096
June 12, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
Then don’t say it and respect the people that do believe in God.By Skeptic
June 12, 2009 10:50 AM | Link to this
ACLU rocks. Freedom cannot protect itself.By rob
June 12, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this
i have a problem with the :one nation under GOD: part. what if you dont believe in”god”?By amy
June 12, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this
A law related to the Pledge inserted into a budget bill/law ? Hmmm… Politics as usual, I guess.By hakko
June 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
The ACLU is correct on this issue. There should not be any policies made which require or prohibit the Pledge of Allegiance in a classroom or its alteration while recitingBy CommonSense
June 12, 2009 10:47 AM | Link to this
Down with the ACLU