By alisa

October 12, 2010 11:59 PM | Link to this

Crucial brief, purchase generic cialis. Generic Cialis is the maker name of the panacea whose on the go ingredient is Tadalafil. Orally administered in the blank of tablets, Stingy Tadalafil is adapted to concerning the treatment of erectile dysfunction (ED) in men.

By bradley

August 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this

GQ’s comment posted at 12 Aug 10:52 PM: “Can you imagine the motor vehicle worker getting a new position as an “end of life counselor”. “ Man, that is right on and scary.

By judy

August 14, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this

Why would anyone want their taxes raised if they could afford to pay for health insurance? It’s always more expensive when the gov’t is involved. I have seen no legislation involving the insurance companies.

By Rebecca

August 13, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this

so true KingPablo! post: August 12, 2009 3:07 PM another article quoted a Brown staff member saying “there was no effort to hide the meeting” WRONG! 1) nothing was noted on Brown’s website even as late as 15 mins before the event (the last time i checked). 2) nothing on OSUToday (email of “the latest news and information for faculty and staff of OSU”) beforehand nor day of 3) nothing on the univ online calendar of events 4) nothing on radio or tv that morning i work at OSU and only found out 15 minutes before (from a tea party listserv). called the venue and they confirmed, but i was unable to get away on such short notice. i was hoping to get some answers: 1) where in the U.S. Constitution is the congress given the authority to even consider a national health care proposition? health care is not a human right nor is it a constitutional right. i was taught the Constitution was designed to limit the power of the federal government. 2) can you honestly promise me that Senators, Congressmen and other federal government employees will have to give up THEIR benefits and obtain the EXACT SAME healthcare system that all Americans will be required to use? Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan. the bill mandates that all other Americans enroll in “qualified” health plans and submit proof of enrollment to the government. 3) have you, or will you promise to, read the bill in its entirety before any vote? i am outraged!

By joe

August 13, 2009 8:39 AM | Link to this

HR3200 Page 58….the government will have real time access to your bank accounts and finances…isn’t that really what this is all about? If people think that the administration really cares about your health..you are wrong. Wake up folks…they just monetized our debt on Thursday and raised the debt ceiling (do you all know what that means?) If they want health care reform they should start with consumer protection regarding the insurance companies, eliminate waste and fraud and tell the 13 million illegal immigrants that they will have to go home to get health care.

By JO JO IS RIGHT

August 12, 2009 11:12 PM | Link to this

Oh and to the writer of this story, WIlliam Hershey, I hope you pass journalism 101 next time you take it. Report Sen Brown’s talking points, get one quote for, one against, time to submit your story??? What % was the crowd for or against? Did Brown offer any solutions? Did he commit to or oppose HB3200? Did he schedule this 2 or 4 hours before the meeting time? Was the meeting helpful? In what way? Quit quoting press releases and start reporting facts!

By JO JO IS RIGHT

August 12, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this

Let me exercise my right to free speech and call all of you Obamacare supporters idiots! How does adding 40mil+ without health care change the Doc/Patient ratio? How long will you have to wait to get an appointment? Or does the bill magically create a million new Doctors? How do you add 40 mil + and lower costs? By cutting services or extending wait time for services. Maybe you can get an appointment to see a specialist for stage 2 cancer by the time it has grown to stage 4. Oh, and what is Obama’s plan, he has not committed to specifics yet? Think about it morons!

By GQ

August 12, 2009 10:52 PM | Link to this

Just a few random thoughts. Where are the limits on lawyer fees within this bill to control costs? Just for fun — add language that the administrators CANNOT be part of a union. Another fact — the 3rd largest employer in the world, behind the Chinese Peoples Army and the Indian Railway Workers is the British Health Care Administrators. And that doesn’t include the doctors or nurses. Can you imagine the motor vehicle worker getting a new position as an “end of life counselor”. And where is the media (DDN included) on reporting on all those people that are being bused in? to shout down and intimidate the few independent (angry) Americans. Good Night Dayton

By ProudMemberOfTheAngryMob

August 12, 2009 10:26 PM | Link to this

The elderly are upset because they know that their care will necessarily be rationed when the system is overwhelmed by an influx of 40 million people, legal or not, are placed into a system with a finite amount of money and doctors. That is the case everywhere universal coverage is initiated.

By Robert

August 12, 2009 10:18 PM | Link to this

I cannot understand why the elderly on medicare and medicaid is so upset. I wonder how they would feel if the table was turned and there was a bill proposed to allow working men and women to opt out of social security taxes being taken out of their paychecks.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 10:14 PM | Link to this

the problems with the “opt out if you want to arguements” are these; 1) even if I opt out this program will cost well over a trillion dollars and I will be taxed to support it, and my employer will be taxed to support it, and it ends up adding to the embedded taxes on everything I buy. thanks, but no more government spending on this monkey poo is a far better plan in my book. 2) where I work I am pretty sure my employer pays more then 8% of payroll costs for insurance. under this bill they could decide to pay 8% to the government and drop their insurance plans altogether. when this happens I am “forced into Obamacare” I work for a company with something like 8000 employees. Companies with much smaller payrolls could opt out for lesser amounts (4 to 6%)(read the bill, it’s in there somewhere around page 150). government run health care, the more I read the less I like. this bill is a nightmare people.

By Bill

August 12, 2009 10:12 PM | Link to this

Wow! Morons screaming at morons, even online. People like you make representative government seem like a bad idea.

By J

August 12, 2009 10:06 PM | Link to this

More people voted for Obama- wanted him..and his plan to change America. Health care included. I am on Medicare…before had United Health Care and now it is supplemental. Little change. Insurance companies rule. Hospital networks control the doctor. Drug comanies overcharge. I was - am an Obama supporter.

By ProudMemberOfTheAngryMob

August 12, 2009 10:04 PM | Link to this

“It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what it will be tomorrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule which is little known, and less fixed?” James Madison

By Robert

August 12, 2009 10:03 PM | Link to this

Observing Americans behavior at these town hall meetings remind me of the hatred displayed during the civil right movement. It is okay to be against the health care bill but when you see and hear your fellow Americans using hatred, and threatening harm against the President of the United States of America, I think all Americans should speak out against this evil behavior. But sadly I have not seen enough of my fellow Americans speak out.

By DDN hater

August 12, 2009 9:45 PM | Link to this

This healthcare plan is a way to cover illegal aliens and get more votes for the Democrats. have you ever heard a veteran talk about how good the VA is? Does anyone leave the US to go to Canada for a 2nd opinion? Once implemented, all small business owners will tell employees they have to use it because it will be cheaper but not better. Prepare to stand in long lines and get thrown into a beauracratic mess. The Govt is incapable of keeping track of your medical records and your care will suffer. We are all uninformed and they are making this up as they go. Just like the AARP endorsment that never happened.

By TRS

August 12, 2009 9:09 PM | Link to this

Lose the public option and this could be worked out; but, his competition spin they use is simply a trojan horse to single pay. There are over 1400 health insurers. If you allowed them to sell across state lines, there would be plenty of competition. Seems simple, but liberals desperately want the public option while they think they can get it because they don’t want to lose their vehicle to a fully run gvmt healthcare system.

By seriously?!?

August 12, 2009 9:04 PM | Link to this

To M Adkins: There are many reasons people in the US die prematurely. Living in an industrialized nation, we have access to many different things that affect our health status. People are dying prematurely d/t diabetes, high cholesterol, heart disease, cancer, etc. If you have ever spent any time in an ER, you would note that most of the patients seen there are those who don’t have insurance. They are getting care. As a healthcare employee, I see several acute patients a day that don’t have insurance, yet they are able to make it to the doctor’s office. Any of the reports you cited can be construed in favor of health care reform or against. I suggest those of you that are in support of health care (insurance) reform, spend some quality time in a hospital or doctor’s office and see that these people are getting the same care as those with insurance. If this health care reform passes, pray that you stay healthy and don’t need to see a specialist for any care.

By ricardo

August 12, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this

Dona nobis pacem.

By gary

August 12, 2009 7:52 PM | Link to this

To spade to spade and the rest. I’ve always had insurance but being laid off, then not being able to afford corba, now i need medical help, but can’t .the trade off here isupport other things like those of you who smoke, drink and use substances

By BigBen

August 12, 2009 7:47 PM | Link to this

All those with great health care should be allowed to opt out of any health care reform.That way if you don’t want it don’t take it.As for me I need better health care and I want better health care.

By JJ

August 12, 2009 7:43 PM | Link to this

It seems like all these people that have such great health care should be allowed to opt out of any health care reform.That would solve the problem if you don’t want it-don’t take it.As for me I want better health care.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 7:23 PM | Link to this

why is it that back in the days when HMO’s walked the earth they were bad things because they took decisions away from the doctor and patient and gave them to some bean counter but the BHO plan that does the same thing, only giving it to the government is a good thing. do we think the government is more benevolent then our insurance companies are? just wait until we have the fun and joy of er’s that close at 5:00 friday afternoon and do not re open until monday morning because uncle sam doesn’t want to pay over time. those are going to be good times.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 7:17 PM | Link to this

you are right, we can do better. but this government health care takeover plan as put forth in this document http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf is not the right answer. it would take the power of choice away from people and doctors and give it to the government. it would give the government unlimited and uncontestable power to make decisions about your health care based solely on the bottom line. Limited appeal, no judicial review of abuse, freedom from prosecution for the pencil pushers who pull the plug/cut people off. we do need a fix to our health care, this however is not it

By M Adkins

August 12, 2009 7:05 PM | Link to this

I feel that the average American doesn’t understand what affect our current Healthcare System really has on our great country. The World Health Organization ranked the U.S. at 37th on the quality of Healthcare in the World. According to the 2002 Institute of Medicine 193-page report, “Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late 18,314 people die in the USA each year because they lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care.” That’s 6.15 times the number of people who Al Qaeda killed Sept.11.2001 EACH YEAR! That’s 50 Americans die prematurely each day. More recently the Urban Institute in 2008 estimated “137,000 people died from 2000 through 2006 because they lacked health insurance, including 22,000 people in 2006.” If these facts are in error by 50% this is still a disaster. Just look at the numbers. If you’re an American you are more likely to die prematurely from your country’s lack of National Health Insurance than a Terrorist attack. These numbers don’t lie. Let’s not forget those have been left physically damaged and/or finically destroyed. According to the Health Affairs Journal 2005 about half of the bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to medical expenses. The high cost of Health Insurance has forced Employers to go to such measures as to limit the number of employees. This causing higher unemployment/more work hours, a more stressful and sometimes unsafe work environment. Don’t tell me we can’t be better than 37th on Earth when it comes to providing a Health Plan to our people.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf a couple of other people have posted links/tiny urls. try cut and paste on the one above it is merely 1018 pages long so I am not going to try to put it in the ddn little box

By MN

August 12, 2009 6:53 PM | Link to this

Congratulations on picking one moot point in the argument and going with it because you can’t come up with anything else. I picked on Sarah Palin because before her daughter became pregnant she was publicly saying that teenage pregnancy was the parent’s fault. So whose fault is it now? By her own words, its hers. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter because this is about healthcare and since you couldn’t come up with anything else I’m going to assume you have no other points.

By Terry

August 12, 2009 6:32 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Pres. Obama PROMISE he would have Bills posted online for American citizens to read for themselves BEFORE they got voted into law? Is the ACTUAL Health Care Reform Bill posted ANYWHERE? I keep “hearing” this and that about it but I WANT TO READ IT MYSELF. Anyone know where I can find the ACTUAL text…and NOT what someone “says” it says. And please do not insult me and tell me that it’s “too long to post” or “too complicated for the average citizen to understand”. If either side expects support they better cough up the ACTUAL Bill and stop dancing around. So…anybody seen the ACTUAL Bill or know where it can be read?

By Barry

August 12, 2009 6:28 PM | Link to this

in England, the land that brought us King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table and Robin Hood and his loyal Merry Men you now have to show an id and be over 18 to buy a pizza cutter (it is a knife don’t you know, knives are dangerous). if you need a medical procedure that costs over $45,000 (U.S.)(I think that is what the conversion rate is these days) you probably have to go out of country to get it because the government rations medicine (my boss’s mother in law comes over here once or twice a year to have work done) $45,000 and you are cut off, that’s it, no more, thanks for playing, R.I.P. this bill that we are looking at doesn’t have a cap in it, but the wording is there to establish one, it will have to be established in order to meet the preamble of cutting and controlling health care cost. My dad had cancer, and a liver transplant, and a lot of other things before he died. but we still had hope up until the last week of his life. If we had lived in a socialist medicine country like this bill provides for he would have been cut off 10 years earlier while I was in grade school because “that is too expensive”. All you blind little BHO followers who voted for him because he wasn’t Bush (never mind Bush wasn’t running in that election) remember that when you you want a new knee, liver, heart or hip and the government cuts you off because you are past your prime and not worth keeping around any more. that is what this bill will do. there will be a cap, and once you go over it… R.I.P. you are cut off it is a nightmare

By star1077

August 12, 2009 6:19 PM | Link to this

Hey “MN” look at the morals of Sarah Palin — not her daughter— when is fair game topick on people’s children? I’m sure there are lots of good liberal pols who have children with embarrassing behavior…Quit going after the kids!!! He who has not sinned may cast the first stone..I doubt you can live up to the standards you set for your conservative foes…shut up!!!

By rrhoop5469

August 12, 2009 6:19 PM | Link to this

How hard is it to just expand medicaid to cover all those who don’t or can’t get health insurance???? Why create this big government healthcare & mess it up for those who have good insurance!! It doesn’t take much to realize that companies would rather pay the penalties for dropping insurance than pay the super high premiums to cover their employees. Companies will drop health care like a hot potato and we’ll all end up on Obama’s sorry health plan that doesn’t cover much. How many Canadians do you hear praising their one for all health coverage? How many drive over the U.S. to see a doctor? It doesn’t work. Come up with another plan!

By MN

August 12, 2009 6:18 PM | Link to this

Also, if you get your health care through an employer you already have government interference. Through a strictly private insurance company, they can deny you because of “preexisting” conditions, rack up your costs, etc. But if you get healthcare through your employer then the government has place restrictions on the insurance companies and they must provide insurance to everyone. 60% of people of insured through their companies and they probably don’t realize the government is already partially running it. Our military has national health care (I have it through the military), Congress has it too. Generally speaking, most people who have good health insurance do because of the government. I’m tired of hearing all of these lies spewed out from the Republican party that get regurgitated back by people like “Barry”. Your grandparents are NOT getting euthanized. It merely gives an older person the OPTION of speaking with someone concerning their death wishes. Which is a good thing. Babies are not getting aborted because of healthcare, that is such a ridiculous notion and a whole other argument (whenever the Republican party is backed against a wall they throw out the “killing babies” line and idiots believe them). Don’t you think its sad that Republican officials have actually stated that they don’t really care about healthcare they just want to bring Obama down? If these are the FALSE attacks they have against healthcare, it makes one wonder why they can’t come up with anything else. They have resorted to coming up with lies and gathering people to make scenes at town hall meetings. Why? So the real issue can’t be talked about. For all you rabble rousers out there, why don’t you ask some questions instead of yelling at your congressmen?

By The basic issue

August 12, 2009 6:09 PM | Link to this

Those of you who oppose healthcare are sticking your heads in the sand. The question used to be, IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT OR A PRIVILEGE? That has already been decided. Everyone in the US has access to healthcare. It’s only a question of how much we pay for that. Without reform, we will continue to pay a ridiculous amount. With it, we have a chance at letting future generations be able to afford anything besides healthcare.

By He just lied 2 us yesterday

August 12, 2009 6:06 PM | Link to this

Obama in N.H. at his organized town hall just told them and American people that AARP was behing this and there NOT.Dangerous!Most people think Bush was bad (had his moments)you haven’t seen anything.Honeymoon is over.

By He just lied 2 us yesterday

August 12, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this

Obama in N.H. at his organized town hall just told them and American people that AARP was behing this and there NOT.Dangerous!Most people think Bush was bad (had his moments)you haven’t seen anything.Honeymoon is over.

By He just lied us yesterday

August 12, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this

Obama in N.H. at his organized town hall just told them and American people that AARP was behing this and there NOT.Dangerous!Most people think Bush was bad (had his moments)you haven’t seen anything.Honeymoon is over.

By MN

August 12, 2009 6:02 PM | Link to this

“R U Kidding me”, what you just made was a complete generalization and actually very hypocritical. You stated Democrats have less morals? Well what about Mark Foley? Mark Sanford? Sarah Palin’s teenage daughter had a child out of wedlock. Not to mention, statistics show that the highest educated and the working class are generally Democrats. Also you complain that an elite liberal would want healthcare yet state that they are underemployed and lazy? How did they become elite then? I guess I shouldn’t even bother responding to you because your argument is unfounded and would negate anything meaningful you would have to say about the real issue, health care. Congratulations on making the Republican party look even more uninformed and ignorant.

By Alanzo

August 12, 2009 5:59 PM | Link to this

Whenever you see junk spouted like the garbage “R U Kidding Me” posted, you know he’s not interested in actual discussion of the issues; merely slandering folks he sees as political opponents. As such, he’s not worth responding to in any depth, except to make fun of.

By BS

August 12, 2009 5:53 PM | Link to this

Obama himself said he was a proponent of “single payer” look it up.Not good. To:Judi Just because someone doesn’t agree doesn’t mean there morons or watch fox news.You lost the agruement right there as far as I’m concered.

By TRS

August 12, 2009 5:52 PM | Link to this

Here’s a pretty good link as well which rationally discusses the issue. http://patients.about.com/od/patientempowermentissues/a/rationing.htm This debate has three components. How much liberty do you want to cede to the government? To some, they seem to trust it implicitly and have no problem but many of us have real difficulty with that one. If you read the bill note how many times it says that someone “shall” do this or that. I think its about 187 times. Two - everyone is all moral about providing healthcare for all but have little concern about the debt they are leaving for generations to come. #3 - if anyone looks at the political class, the current group in DC, looks at their history, looks at the programs they create, looks at the waste, fraud and abuse inherit in gvmt programs which they have tried to eliminate since its inception but have failed to do so, looks at the poltical payoffs made to constituencies thru these programs - anyone who looks at that and believes this gvmt can efficiently operate a healthcare system 5X as large as Canada, France, England and many of the other examples we are given probably own several timeshares as an investment. Medicare is going broke in 8 years. Its enrollees will double over the next 20. They plan to pay for part of this with a 500B cut in Medicare; yet, we are told our coverage will be the same if not better. That is Washington DC math and its a pity that so many believe it is correct.

By Gary

August 12, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this

Develop a plan that members of Congress will agree to become part of, and we will have a good health care plan. Remember, Obie and the Dems can talk all they want, but the only thing that counts is what gets passed as a bill. And what we are being told is not what is being considered as law.

By Remember This

August 12, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this

Sharod Brown - a** clown and words to sleep by: O (one) B (big) A (as*) M (mistake) A (America) We the American sheep are ready to let the idiot Democrats lead us to slaughter!

By R U Kidding me

August 12, 2009 5:44 PM | Link to this

Democrats are those class of people who take more from society than they contribute. They largely have made bad life choices (smoke, drink, undereducated, out of wedlock births, undermployed unmotivated and unproductive). Gernerally speaking they want the hard working over worked people in society to pay for things they have decided not to work for and earn for themselves. I am personally tired and unwilling to pay for more slobs sucking off another government program that will mortgage by kids and grandkids futures. 72% to 80%of americans depending on whose pole you read dont’ want this Obama boondoggle - so why are they cramming this down our throats? Someday they will not have any more money to spend when they run out of everyone elses money. Only an elite liberal working at an overpaid government job wants the government to tax himself more. G

By painfultruth

August 12, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this

This is DUMB. One more time. http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/healthcarereform_obama.fortune/index.htm Try this link.

By John

August 12, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this

Americans do not want socialized medicine. This is obvious from all of the people across the country voicing their opinions at the town hall meetings. But instead of listening to the people, Democrats blow them off as “planted hecklers” by the GOP. How dare we disagree with the messiah and his plan to socialize this country. If they dont want to listen to us now, they’ll damn sure listen to us in 2010 and again in 2012.

By painfultruth

August 12, 2009 5:29 PM | Link to this

Try again. Full link. http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/healthcarereform_obama.fortune/index.htm

By painfultruth

August 12, 2009 5:27 PM | Link to this

Visit this link if you want to see the 5 freedoms you will LOSE with Obamacare. http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/healthcarereform_obama.fortune/index.htm

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 5:21 PM | Link to this

GP/Leslie…Do you realize illegals get covered now?….on yours and my back(s)/increased preimums. go hang out in an emergency room for a couple of hours. take notice of all the illegals and non-insurance patients. at least you will know who/why your premium just went up. or why your employer just cut your insurance b/c the costs are too much.

By Travis Aker

August 12, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this

The thing is that Obama,and the Congress,need to slow down and think about what is the best for the American people,and not themselves.

By Travis Aker

August 12, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

Here is suggestion put a cap on the prices that private healthcare insurance can charge to employers,and put a cap also on the drug prices as well. Thats were the real problems lie.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 5:13 PM | Link to this

barry…how you interpet things are not always the same way others do. i think those make sense. have you had to go down the path with a family member and address those situations? something like the Terri Shavio case? look at that dibacle and look at all the tax payer dollars wasted on it…one way or another. all of the items you pointed out were addressed…one way or another…by the courts in her case. obviously her end of life care/proceedure/treatment/will….whatever…was not clear and concise one way or the other. why not have these things clear and concise before? save time, energy, and money. not to sound shrewd, but…it does effect the bottom line when it come to healthcare costs. And the reality is not enough people think ahead about these things, then its a snowball effect with costs which ulitmately hurt us…the consumers. I know your going to come back and say…the gvt. should not be making those decisions. so keep your current plan. you don’t have to take it. I can give you a rebutal to each one of those lines as to why they make sense…and control costs. costs you, I, and everyone else pay for in time…one way or another.

By flipper

August 12, 2009 5:05 PM | Link to this

The giant has been awakened.

By GP

August 12, 2009 5:02 PM | Link to this

Any program that wants to force me to carry coverage and yet provides for “illegal” coverage at no cost is a heap of dung.

By JR

August 12, 2009 5:00 PM | Link to this

When you think of government run health care, think of Walter Reed.

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 4:56 PM | Link to this

DPK, there is no clause to opt out of anything. HR 3200 doesn’t create a system that everyone is forced into, it creates a public option that becomes one of the choices. If you have access to a different source, show it to me. I am truly open to debate about the merits of the bill, but the lies are ridiculous.

By jack

August 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Link to this

This bill is about control of the wealthiest industry in America. Not about providing quality health car…Sherrod Brown is a snake oil salesman….and a full blown socialist

By drunken orangetree

August 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Link to this

Just so you know Barry is lying, here’s the text from 425 17-19: The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965). http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111congbills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

By dpkdayton

August 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this

There are two giant red flags when it comes to this health care plan. One. If this plan is so good, why are members of congress exempt from having to participate. If they wanted to sell it to the American public, then disband their current system and make it manditory they join this system. What do you think the response would be? Your right. It’s good enough for the unwashed masses but not for the elites that force it down our throats. Second. With the gross underestimation of the cost of the Cash for Clunks program does anyone in their right mind believe the cost of this thing will stay anywhere near the two trillion dollar cost? And as far as all the Biblical references about helping your neighbor. I’m all for helping my neighbor who truely needs help with health care, but no where in the Bible does it say you have to bankrupt the country to do it. Obama is truely sneaky in the way he is trying to present the arguement. It’s a straw man to say that if you oppose this health care refore you are for doing nothing. Its a lie to say that anyone wants to keep the status quo. There are reforms that can be implemented that address the problems without another unsustanable government program.

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this

Barry, again BS. Nothing in what you have quoted says anything about mandatory. YOU are adding in the words THE GOVERNMENT WILL DECIDE. HR 3200 SECTION 1233 does not say ANY of that. Lies again. This is the text: Advance Care Planning Consultation (hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the termadvance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following: (A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to. (B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses. (C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy. (D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965). (E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is— `(A) a physician (as defined in subsection (r)(1)); and `(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assistant who has the authority under State law to sign orders for life sustaining treatments.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this

this government run health care thing is a demon dressed up as a nightmare people. there is little debate on some parts of the U.S. system need to be fixed. but this is “fixing” it the same way a Vet fixes a dog.

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Link to this

First of all Leslie, who is Emmanuel ? Second, it does say it will not treat illegal aliens, here is the language in section 246: “ Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

By Barry

August 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Link to this

Page 425 Lines 17-19 - Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 - Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. Page 427 Lines 15-24 - Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends. Page 429 Lines 1-9 - An “Advanced Care Planning Consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12 - “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government! Page 429 Lines 13-25 - The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15 - The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

By dpkdayton

August 12, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this

In response to Roscoe2u about the life expectancy in the US being lower than other countries. There are two main reasons our life expectancy is lower…our murder rates and rate auto fatalities are much higher than those countries. Take those out and our rates are almost identicle. It has nothing to do with health care.

By Leslie

August 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Link to this

If it is only about paying the doctor for end of life discussion why does it take 10 vague pages to explain it. Get familiar with the people that are guiding the legislation. Emanuel who does believe in not treating the elderly, for example if you have dementia, no money should be spent on you. It’s not in the bill but the bill allows for it. The bill does not say it covers illegals, but it also does not say it covers only citizens. Therefore, illegals are covered. Wake up people. You have decided to let Obama and other politicans especially ones that are not answerable to the people, to make decisions with few resources. It happens in all of the countries that have universal health care. Yes you can have your insurance deny payment or treatment, but you also have choices now. You can pay yourself or you can find other help. Once you have government health care and no private then you have no options.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 4:29 PM | Link to this

barry…not to beat a dead horse…but, relationship with the TRUTH? I think “W’s” relationship with the truth when it cames to… al queda and ties to iraq, wmd’s, trying to sell control of our ports to an arab company, firing of US attorneys, his OWN military record,torture, fundamental of the economy, etc…completely exceede lying about sex.

By Roscoe2u

August 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this

Interesting article in Friday 7/31 USA TODAY’s letter’s to the editor section. It compared our system to the systems of the countries most like us (Germany,France, Canada,Japan) We pay more than twice as much in taxes and insurance premiums as they do yet the average life expectancy in all of tose countries is at least 2 years longer. So if our system is so superior then why the difference???? Go to the WHO(world health org) and look at the rankings for various healthcare modalities and you will see that in many cases we aren’t even top ten in level of care. I’m not saying Obama’s answer is right but the system obviously needs fixing if we’re paying more and getting less than the rest of the civilized world….

By Joan

August 12, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this

I have managed to “read” some of this bill. My personal opinion is that it is little more than legal jargon. You can make it say whatever you want. Its written that way for confusion. Sure succeeded for me. Until there is a bill that the entire American public can read or at least understand I doubt many are going to say sure I whole heartedly support this. Not me, that’s for sure and I did want to see some improved health care. It is needed but we need the facts.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this

RJ…what you are not informed of…. President George Bush, funded a pilot home visitation program because, as his administration said, “There is a growing body of evidence that suggest that some home visitation programs can be successful as a child maltreatment prevention strategy.” FACT…Republican governors established home visitation programs in several states. FACT…a senior Republican Senator, this year, introduced home visitation legislation. FACT…Michelle Ridge, former First Lady of Pennsylvania, sent a letter to the House Republican Caucus offering strong support for home visitation programs because they work: “Offering proven and practical solutions to improve critical outcomes for high-risk, first-time mothers and their children is a priority for business and political leaders that transcends ideology and political affiliation. Quite simply, it is cheaper and more sensible to tackle problems before they begin, rather than spend increasing sums on increasing health care costs associated with poor prenatal care, neglect and abuse, and ineffective remedial policies… FACT…home visitation is a bipartisan issue because 30 years of research shows that home visitation programs produce measurable positive benefits for families and children, and saves money by reducing emergency room visits.

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this

And again BS on Barry. That is NOT in there, you haven’t read it and you are lying again. Show me the language…what section? What line? I’ve actually read HR 3200 and that is NOT in there. There is no language that even INSINUATES that old people will just be left to die. Senator Isakson, a Republican from Georgia, actually wrote legislation that says the same thing in the Medicare End of Life Planning Act of 2007 and it say this: (3) For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `end-of-life planning consultation’ means a consultation between the physician and an individual regarding— (A) the importance of preparing advance directives in case an injury or illness causes the individual to be unable to make health care decisions; (B) the situations in which an advance directive is likely to be relied upon; (C) the reasons why the development of a comprehensive end-of-life plan is beneficial and the reasons why such a plan should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes; (D) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decision maker (health care proxy); and (E) whether or not the physician is willing to follow the individual’s wishes as expressed in an advance directive.’. .

By Barry

August 12, 2009 4:14 PM | Link to this

the biggest problem I had with W was his extra constitutional non defense related spending, and I complained about it endlessly. and I complained about the same thing with Clinton (ok maybe moreso after he lied to us about the sex thing). BHO is even more out of control (with spending) then any of his predecessors and his relationship with the truth reminds me a lot of Clinton and Nixon.

By ls

August 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Link to this

It is quite obvious that our health care system is not functioning in the best interests of All Americans. It is also becoming quite clear that specific lobbyist groups within the health care and pharmaceutical industries believe their interests are more important than the American Citizens interest. President Obama and many members of congress support health care reform. But, there are certain members of the Senate and House of Representatives that seem to place their loyalty with the lobbyists instead of their own constituents or the best interest of our country. For them, it is a matter of pleasing those that will finance campaigns or help them get reelected. That would be lobbyists within the health care industry. All members of congress and all Federal employees are covered under the FEHB. (Federal Employees Health Benefit System) It is a system that allows all federal employees to choose an insurance provider from a long list and weigh benefits and costs. There are national plans and state specific plans. And, an “open season” every year, if one chooses to change plans or coverage. Those in the private sector usually only have one or two options for health insurance. They are normally at the mercy of their employer. These plans usually change every year due to the employer changing plans. Usually, the employee is stuck with whatever plan the employer provides. With limited or very few options available. It is time to consider the FEHB system for all Americans. It gives people the option to shop for the health insurance that is best for themselves or their family. It is not socialized medicine by any means. We deserve the same level of health insurance that our elected officials receive. After all, they work for us. We do not work for them! For those that are less fortunate, those that do not have health care coverage. And, those that are unemployed, we have a moral and ethical obligation to provide health care coverage. People that lose their jobs usually lose health care coverage. COBRA insurance is way too expensive for most Americans. Especially for those that find themselves unemployed. It is time to have low cost or no cost health insurance for those that need it. This should be based upon income levels. Everyone deserves health care coverage. Health care reform will eventually happen. Regardless of what certain members of congress and the media say, it will happen.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

you are right, the counsoling goes on today, it is part of hospice and other programs. but his bill includes “end of medical services” after the counsoling. they don’t kill you, they let you die. maybe they will give you some pain pills, but pretty much once you stop being a “productive member of society” you are cut off. it’s in there. this bill is a nightmare come to life.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

CDA…our veterns have, arguably, the BEST healthcare in the world. Guess what…its ran by the federal government. Our politicians have, arguably, the BEST healthcare in the world. Guess what…its ran by the federal government. Why are these groups any different than you or I? more to the point, why do these groups recieved better coverage than you or I…AND WE PAY FOR IT!!!!

By the Chief

August 12, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this

We’ve already got a form of government run healthcare; it’s called the VA hospital. No thanks. Let’s reform the system we have. Have you ever seen the government do anything efficiently?

By Amber

August 12, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this

This was not written by me but by a friend. If you enjoy getting double digit increases to your health insurance plan: Then oppose health care reform If you prefer getting less salary/wages because your employer has to pay more for health insurance every year: Then oppose health care reform If you think it’s a bad thing for individuals to discuss living wills and end of life care with their doctor: Then oppose health care reform If you think it’s a good thing that you pay higher insurance premiums to inefficiently subsidize the uninsured: Then oppose health care reform If you like the fact that our country has worse mortality and morbidity compared to every other industrialized country, and pays more for the privilege of those worse outcomes, then by all means, oppose health care reform. If you think it’s a good thing that the “free market” charges 20% to 40% for administration/overhead while Medicare does it more efficiently for 3%-5% and you don’t want to take advantage of those savings, then oppose health care reform. If you think socialized medicine is a bad thing, then why is the Veterans Administration the health care system in American with the highest patient satisfaction rate (and the VA is 100% socialized medicine)? If the “free market” works so well, why can’t people who have pre-existing conditions get affordable coverage? Oppose health care reform to keep the status quo. If you are genuinely concerned about the federal deficit, does it bother you to know that health care costs currently eat up 16% of GDP, and will be 20% of GDP in just 8 short years? If not, then by all means, oppose health care reform. If you are genuinely a believer in the “free market” and competition, are you aware that health insurance companies are exempt from the Sherman Anti-Trust act, and therefore CAN collude, and CAN have monopolies? Is that really the “free market” at work? Will you contact your Representative/Senators to change this? If you think it’s a good thing for America to have employer-based health coverage, do you worry at all what will happen to your coverage if your company stops offering it? Can you afford a $14,000 a year premium to cover your family? If you think it’s a good thing that health insurance, on average, costs more per month than the average mortgage payment, then oppose health care reform. If you think the government is going to ration care, are you aware that the “free market” currently forces patients to wait for results on cancer biopsies and cancer treatments? Do you think those patients are getting “the best possible care” right now, having to wait for cancer treatments? Do you realize that it is being rationed right now? If Canada has such a bad health care system, then why aren’t Canadians clamoring for their politicians to institute an “American style” health insurance system in Canada? If you are a Christian, do you believe the Scripture that says, “Love your neighbor as yourself?” If you love yourself enough to care for your own body, do you love others as Christ commanded you to, and are you willing to help them pay for their health care? If not, re-read your Bible, or perhaps consider another religion that doesn’t ask you to sacrifice for others.

By Cora

August 12, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

And 80%+ of seniors are happy with Medicare, but you couldn’t possibly find one that doesn’t think that system is broken. 80% of Americans may well be happy with their healthcare, but what 80% actually represents is getting smaller all the time as people lose their coverage every day. Not exactly a very compelling statistic.

By R J..Miamisburg, Oh

August 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this

Congress health care is NOT RUN by any Gov agency. IT is a PRIVATE RUN care plan. I have read HR 3200 and you should read it. MUCH in it is as the Fox haters say is not in it. Read it. Heck they have a line about COMING INTO our homes and telling us how to raise our kids. They will never go with any Gov run care, so they go with a Private run plan for all. OK so it has different plans for the various states. They don’t want us to have what they have.

By dhampton100

August 12, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this

It amazes me that so many people can be so ignorant, all at the same time. How we, as Americans can be against providing for our own is beyond me. The Republicans, who claim to be Christians, ignore the part where Jesus said “The poor you will always have with you AND when you help those less fortunate you are helping HIM”. I for one, have owned and insurance agency and sold insurance for over 25 years. I have never asked my government for anything other than the Veterans benefits I have earned. How can such good “Christians” believe such blatant lies and argue so many empty-headed points, especially when the last president spent money like a drunken sailor and you held your peace? It’s hypocrisy, at the highest level and racism at its lowest. To simply oppose the rebuilding of your own country while simultaneously using these non-issue issues exposes you as both, sinners and selfish, only caring for your own needs. AND for these idiots who say they do not want bureaucrats making decisions about their healthcare-just what and who do you think is making the decisions now? Certainly not the doctors! It is business people making the decisions with pure profit motives as their priority. AND if you really-really don’t want the government involved in your medical care-walk down to the nearest Social Security office and turn in your damn card!

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Link to this

Barry…end of life cousoling already goes on and consists of things like establishing a living will and/or who will provide care for you as you go down the the final road. As a matter of FACT….Pres. Bush mandated a law requiring this during his 8 years.. He made it a point that ALL people who are making their final life journey be aware of their options and establish a living will. This is FACT.What the bil NOW includes to this is that the doctor can bill for this cousiling under normal paitent care. Heywood Jablowme…that is what the plan is about. If you like your insurance keep it. If you don’t you can enter the SAME pool and purchase the same program all congressmen/women have.

By Seeker257

August 12, 2009 3:53 PM | Link to this

I think any plan should be “test-flown” by a small group in a test environment. How about the President & Congress? Let them test fly the thing for a couple years and then if it proves worthy, it can be expanded.

By cda

August 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this

The federal government is the last group you want in charge of your family’s healthcare. They may be able to come up with a basic “safety net” plan, but never, ever let them control the game. We need much less government, and fewer taxes, not more.

By Jenna Mann

August 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this

Heywood, what are you referring to? What same healthcare plan? Federal politicians are covered by the various options offered to federal employees. All federal employees get to review a series of plans (this is called a cafeteria) where they get to review coverage and pick their plans based on their needs and their states. This is the concept offered in the bill regarding a “marketplace” or “exchange”. The idea is to allow people to go to this exchange and review in simplified terms, much like federal employees, the types of plans, benefits and costs associated. Now maybe this isn’t the answer, but it is in the bill.

By Doctor

August 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this

JUDI, If you are so smart why do you have cancer?

By mikey

August 12, 2009 3:50 PM | Link to this

80% of americans satisfied with health insurance my a*s…everyone i know thinks this is nothing but legalized thievery..what a f**king idiot

By Ali

August 12, 2009 3:50 PM | Link to this

Why is everyone worried about the “euthanasia” shouldn’t we be worried about the youth in America?

By JUDI

August 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this

I feel sorry for all you ignorant people. Most of you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You just want to disparage (that’s “make fun of, belittle”, in case you went to a Dayton school) anyone that has a different point of view. Read the bill correctly and quit watching FOX news! I’ve worked hard my entire life, saved some money, owned my own home and small business—but can’t get AFFORDABLE health insurance due to having had cancer. I’d love to be able to have some sort of health care-and pay my share. (Don’t even get me started on that “death to grannie”, no choice of doctor, they’ve got my bank account number garbage…..)

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 3:44 PM | Link to this

Drunken Orangetree…I can’t speak as to the effectiveness of communication from Sherrod Brown’s office, but I’m sick of the lies. I’m sick of people who complain that giving healthcare to uninsured folks is wrong because they should have individual responsibility. Fine, but then let’s argue the policy point of who should be insured, not engage in lies about what this bill actually says. Also, those who are screaming that this bill contains euthanasia need to actually read it. Euthanasia is illegal. Period. The bill can’t encourage it or condone it until someone passes another bill legalizing it. Do you really think that the elected official who will all be old sooner rather than later are going to support legislation that kills off grandma and grandpa? Or that elected officials are going to do things that kill off the largest part of the voting electorate? There is no logic here. As for individual responsibility, those who claim to have read the bill, but clearly haven’t, should engage in some.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this

“Just to make sure we stay on track here. The poster claiming this bill has a euthanasia clause in it, is lying.” They don’t call it eutheanasia, they call it “end of life counsoling” and “end of life services” and then they cut off your medicine and you die. they never say “euteanasia” but it is the same thing. they use the word “contribution” to replace “tax” a lot also. read the darn thing, it’s in there. you get old and they cut you off once you are no longer productive. and you have limited recourse for appeal, and the pencil pushing geek that makes the decision is protected from judicial review (that means your family can’t sue after they pull the plug on grandpa)

By heywood jablowme

August 12, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this

If this is so freaking great why arent the politicians on this same healthcare plan.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 3:34 PM | Link to this

Millie K and Drunken Orangetree…THANK YOU!

By Millie K.

August 12, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this

And BS on Barry…you haven’t read the bill because not one of those things you say is actually in it. I’ve actually read it. Go to Thomas.loc.gov and search for H.R. 3200 and READ it. Nothing shows a liar like when he opens his mouth. There are probably lots of reasons to debate the legitimacy of this bill ane one would think you could find a legitimate issue instead of lying.

By Millie K

August 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

Read the bill…let me understand this…America as we know it is going away because you can’t understand the bill and we don’t write legislation in a 9th grade vocabulary? Seriously? Get a grip.

By Philman

August 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

I called Sen. Browns office 2 days ago and asked when he would be at a townhall meeting , the girl said I could go to his website to find out, I could not find anything on his site, so I left a email asking him to vote no on obamacare. I got a autoresponse back, thanking me for the email.they will be stacking any meeting they have , just alerting the union halls. shame on them.next election if they get reelected shame on US>

By drunken orangetree

August 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

Just to make sure we stay on track here. The poster claiming this bill has a euthanasia clause in it, is lying.

By read the bill

August 12, 2009 3:22 PM | Link to this

I tried to read the bill.it is all leagal b.s.you have to be an attorney to understand it,after 30 minutes it was clear,they don’t want an average citizen to understand it.its like putting 1000 pages of fine print at the bottom and hoping no one figures it out,just like a contract,if you don’t understand ,DON’T SIGN IT.when they can write this bill in three pages to where a ninth grader can understand it we shouldn’t support it.Brown was on cnn and defended this plan to extremes,good bye america as we knew it.

By spade is a spade

August 12, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

Not a fool…do you realize that WE ALREADY DO PAY FOR THOSE WHO CAN”T AFFORD HEALTHCARE? This is one of many reasons why premiums continue to rise. Do you even pay for your healthcare or does your employer? Did you complain about tax increases when Bush expanded the Medicaid Perscription D program? Which was the largest expansion of ANY gvt. ran program this nation has ever seen. Just curious. You had tax increases long ago.

By Barry

August 12, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t know how anyone can read this Obamanation government health care bill and not be scared spitless. Illegal/criminal aliens get all the healthcare they need, babies get a free abortion, grandpa gets “end of life therapy” followed by a suicide pain killer pill. I suggest anyone who disagrees with this put down the Democrat party line/bullet points and download the bill and read the darn thing. I am only on page 300 and it is a nightmare waiting to happen

By j

August 12, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this

No a fool - how is what you want any different?

By Anna K.

August 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this

The issue isn’t Mr. Davidson’s comments. This is about all of us WITH insurance. It’s that I paid $86 a month for my insurance 7 years ago. Now I pay $360. Same policy, insurance company and job. No major illnesses, no surgeries, nothing different. And I work for the federal government which supposedly has the Cadillac of healthcare. If the rate continues this climb, by 2025, my insurance is going to cost me almost $1500 a month. At the same time, the insurance companies continue to ratchet up my copays and my deductibles. This is monsterous.

By KingPablo

August 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this

Sherrod Brown didn’t know which way it was stacked? Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies. I guess when you stack it yourself you can pass whatever baloney off you want. I was in line by 9:30, but couldn’t get inside. This “Town Hall” was well organized and stacked for Obama supporters, as they had the line positioned for the allotted seats lined up before this hit the media this morning. Their email went out yesterday. At 4 I called his office and the paid mouthpiece couldn’t even tell the TRUTH about whether they were having a meeting or not. And he didn’t post any notice on his website. I guess since he doesn’t have time to read legislation, he can’t be bothered with posting a notice for his constituents. Sherrod Brown comes across again as spineless for preaching to his own choir, and being afraid to respond to any sort of simple disagreement. His paid staff were not allowing signs inside the building, confiscating signs at the door, but passing out the Obama approved message. I guess public Town Hall meetings have to be held in a controlled seating, limited space like room 415a, in the middle of a construction zone to keep any obvious complaints down. Was this a Town Hall meeting? No. This was a one sided affair held in a difficult location at the last minute.

By Lelsie

August 12, 2009 3:04 PM | Link to this

Reader, take responsibility for yourself and read the house bill, it is posted on the government website. Google it it is posted everywhere. HR3200 this is the house bill that has everybody so upset. Don’t be ignorant, be informed. Be self-sufficient and personally responsible. Read the BILL!

By Reader

August 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this

“actual” words…sorry

By Reader

August 12, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this

I don’t want my taxes raised, because I really can;t afford it either. But my insurance just went up again, because they can charge whatever they want for it, and I really can’t afford that either. I would really like to hear what the bill says. Not what talk radio thinks it says, not what political anylists on tv think it says; I’d like to hear or see the actualy words. And I can;t hear anything over all these people screaming at each other. It’s really just sad.

By Andy

August 12, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this

If Jeff Davidson is for giving his money away for health care then he can donate it all to a free clinic. Maybe then he feel better about his “immorality”.

By Churchill Q Washington

August 12, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this

Not a fool, Davidson is a shill.

By Not a fool

August 12, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this

Jeff Davidson, I’m glad you can “afford” higher taxes - what about those of us who CAN’T? You want people who can’t afford higher taxes to pay for people who can’t afford healthcare - that’s the same stupid logic that is CREATING the arguments against it. You are the problem with this country - you think just because YOU want it YOUR way - the rest of us should just shut up and bend over. I hope you die of a heart attack before the government rapes the rest of us at your behest.