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Home > Blogs > Ohio politics > Archives > 2010 > April > 16 > Entry
Senate President Harris, Strickland aide tangle on passenger rail
Senate President Bill Harris, R-Ashland, has turned up the heat in the growing controversy over Ohio’s plans for a passenger rail system connecting Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton.
On Friday, April 16, Harris wrote Democratic Gov. Ted Strickland a letter blasting Strickland administration plans to go ahead with a Monday, April 19, vote Controlling Board vote on releasing $25 million in federal funds for a rail system planning study.
Amanda Wurst, Strickland’s spokeswoman, lashed back in an email critical of Republican opposition to the passenger rail plan.
The likelihood is that the proposal will pass Monday on a straight party line vote, 4-3, with all Democrats “yes” and the Republicans “no.” Capital improvement votes for the rail system require super majority approval but the Strickland administration has maintained that votes for planning money require only a simple majority.
Harris maintained in the letter that an agreement with the Strickland administration required bipartisan support from the Controlling Board for rail system issues.
“I am extremely disappointed that you are violating the spirit of that agreement and potentially, the law, by pushing ahead with your plans without earning bipartisan support and even more concerning, without ever providing a responsible, well-thought-out plan to achieve your goals,” Harris wrote.
Harris said he continues to have serious questions about the merits of the rail plan. Ohio has qualified for $400 million in federal funds to build the system.
“The bottom line is that our concerns about the upfront and future costs of the 3-C Rail, uncertain ridership projections, the slow speed, the 255-mile length of the 3-C route and plan for only four cars, which makes it difficult to ‘tweak’ the schedule, and potential bias will not be fixed with a $25 million study.
“These facts will not change even after you’ve spent millions in taxpayer dollars,” he wrote.
In her email, Wurst said Republicans apparently have decided to oppose the plan, despite Strickland efforts to answer their questions:
“The administration has responded to all of Sen. Harris’ questions, but it appears Republican leaders in Columbus won’t be satisfied until these federal dollars are taken from Ohio and given to Florida or Michigan to create jobs in those states.
“Gov. Strickland is fighting to create jobs in Ohio and believes Ohioans have the ability to develop a passenger rail system that will give Ohio businesses and the economy a needed economic boost.”
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Comments
By Norak
April 21, 2010 10:40 PM | Link to this
Rah, rah, rah! We need a choo choo. Rah, rah, rah! We need a choo choo. Yes we do! … Engineer Karon’s choo choo is going to fix our out-of-control national debt, save the planet, stop all wars, cure cancer, stop heart disease, feed the hungry, stop the mythical global warming, keep you from ever being late to work, create more jobs than we have people, make Madonna pretty and Prince masculine, sure the common cold, make your bed for you, tuck you in at night, and have cold milk and fresh-baked cookies waiting for you every day after school. … Rah, rah, rah! We need a choo choo - yes we do. Yes, we do. We need a choo choo - how ‘bout you? Gimmee a C. Gimmee an H. Gimmee an O. Gimmee another O. What’d ya got?… Say it again…
By Just the Facts
April 20, 2010 9:18 AM | Link to this
Here’s another nugget for you tards. While the Federal taxes may be at their lowest since 1955, the Government is just shuffling the tax into other items. How many school levies have you seen in your lifetime? Gas Tax? Cell Phone Tax? We are now forfeiting more of our income to TAXES than any other time in our history. You all (especially J)are so easily duped by such misleading statements. The DDN had two seperate articles recently in the same paper. One said that 47% of Americans don’t pay any Federal income tax at all. The other article said President Obama’s budget gave tax credits to 98% of Americans. White House math? Pay attention people! You can’t create jobs with tax money, that are paid by tax money. That’s kind of like using electric to generate electric. It just doesn’t make sense!
By Just the Facts
April 20, 2010 9:04 AM | Link to this
Could Karon possibly be the dumbest person on earth? She has brought up “Taken for A Ride” so many times it hurts. That video is about as made up as Jurrasic park. Do you all know that Cincinnati had estimates to build a train from “The Banks” to near MacMillan (about 2.3 miles)? It was going to cost over 200 Million. Thats 100 million per mile. At that rate, it would cost over a BILLION dollars to get rail out of Cincinnati City Limits. You can’t spend the money just because you think it is a good idea. If it can’t pay for itself, now is not the time to do it. The roads most definitley are the future, at least for the next 25 years. Whether you folks like it or not, the roads are ALREADY there. They do cost Millions to maintain, but what is the alternative? Even if you TARDS build a train, you will need cars at every station to take you where you are going. Unless of course your destination is within a 4 hour walk of the station. DUH! This policy would certainly create jobs. Government Jobs, funded by the American Taxpayers. Give the money back! Let some other State dig thereselves deeper into debt. We don’t need it.
By Jeff
April 20, 2010 8:30 AM | Link to this
I just want to get away EVERY weekend…riding the train…perhaps spending money for a weekend adventure…hotel…dining out….choosing a different destination each time. Remember 5th Third Field? No NO…don’t spend that precious money….but look what a major success it is ! Take a chance. Jeff
By karon
April 19, 2010 1:43 PM | Link to this
Ellen, the passenger trains are different than buses! People will take a train over a bus anyday!
By Ellen
April 19, 2010 1:15 PM | Link to this
Future transportation is with electric cars, not RR systems. Ohio needs electric vehicle charging stations for the Volt. So lets not waste the money on a dead transportation system. I never rode a train in my life.
By J
April 19, 2010 9:32 AM | Link to this
Most of Harris’ concerns are valid.. four cars leading to an oddly limited schedule, but many of you are making the same mistake over and over. Car travel as a main means of transportation has a dubious future. Whether action is taken by the government or not, it’s dubious. Oil will not last, no matter where you drill, and China’s appetite is making the time frame shorter and shorter. Hybrids aren’t a fix of anything. Electrics are doubtful replacements for anything but commuting, that’s even if they can produce them cleanly (currently, making one has a harder environmental impact than driving a musclecar for ten years). Fuel cells or CNG? Depends on where you get hydrogen, which we currently get mostly from refining oil. Electolyzing water.. and the electricity comes from where? What does dumping all that vapor in the air do? CNG? That will go up in price as we depend on it more for power plants. No, folks, the car won’t be as important. So, quit assuming we’ll stay a car society. Now, for you fiscals. If the money isn’t spent here, it will be spent elsewhere. If you’re ok with another state getting benefits, so be it. It’s an odd notiion, when jobs are supposed to be priority number one, but ok. No one else is spending, even though the money is there and the GDP grows, so who else is left? Don’t mention taxes.. middle class taxes are the lowest they’ve been in 50 years.
By karon
April 18, 2010 4:31 PM | Link to this
Roads cost billions each year to maintain , passenger trains are only in the millions to maintain! Passenger trains are a better investment!
By bacillus
April 18, 2010 2:12 PM | Link to this
This is odd. Folks are upset it will cost Ohio 17 million to operate a train system, three years after it starts running. But another article says it will cost Fairborn 17 million for a few road improvements to route 444? What The heck? Sounds like Fairborn is getting the rip-off!
By djc
April 18, 2010 11:44 AM | Link to this
I’m not a Republican. I’m a conservative. I’ve also been a Civil Engineer for over thirty years, graduate of ONU . The numbers don’t add up. This project is purely feel good economics at best and vote buying at worst.
By deano
April 18, 2010 10:09 AM | Link to this
REPUBLICAN’TS want nothing for the masses in this country,their greed has blinded them to the real needs of the people and they will fight any project that improves everyday life for you and I.
By djc
April 18, 2010 9:45 AM | Link to this
Ohio’s transportation budget is around $3 Billion dollars a year. With this they operate & maintain and improve on over 49,000 lane miles of state and federal highways. Compare this to the half billion to be wasted on 255 miles of tracks no one will ride. It will take 25 years to pay back this half billion even if every passenger paid $32 bucks for a train ticket. This is not green transportation. It takes as much or more fuel to move a 720 ton nine car train with 200 passengers on it than it does to run 100 autos with 2 passengers each. Obama’s own Council of Economic Advisers estimated that every $92,136 in government spending would create one job for one year. Private industry can do it for a third this cost. It isn’t the job of the federal government to create jobs.
By L Berry
April 18, 2010 9:31 AM | Link to this
“Ohio’s plans for a passenger rail system connecting Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton.” Anyone else notice that they can’t even get the trains path correct. It goes from Cinc’y-Dayton-Columbus-Cleveland.
By L Berry
April 18, 2010 9:28 AM | Link to this
This is why we are in fiscal bankruphy in what used to be a prosporus Nation. We are now a debtor Nation thanks in part to President Obama’s Socialist Spending and Gov Strickland’s “Grow Jobs” initiative. A train system will create jobs. For a couple years. But at what cost? We have an extimated $3 Billion shortfall in our next budget now. The train will ADD MILLIONS MORE IN DEBT because they all admit it will never break even. It’s another Democratic money pit. Vote for fiscal responsibility before it’s too late.
By hg1
April 18, 2010 9:04 AM | Link to this
Strickland is the Villiage idiot from what town? This is the stupidous idea the Dem’s have come up with to create jobs yet. Have they ever reeviewed why every town that had passenger servcie closed their terminals? My fondest memory of the train station is Springfield was getting robbed in 1963. These were closed for a reason….they were a train to no-where. Who wants to go to Cleveland or columbus and rent a car/taxi to see something. When you return you’ve been broken into or had your car stolen.
By Jim B
April 18, 2010 8:55 AM | Link to this
I once saw a sign in a music store window that said “Free Guitar with $300 pick”. That about sums up this boondoggle. Grumpy hit the nail on the head, the total cost of this fiasco hasn’t been considered - especially the ongoing subsidies to keep it running. Apparently Dopey (aka Karon) hasn’t considered that either.
By karon
April 18, 2010 12:41 AM | Link to this
RM , a car serves your purpose for those areas you talk about! These passenger trains are about creating jobs and restoring Ohio cities! Also with gas prices rising we can no longer depend on a car and highway policy only! 21st century is going to be about versatile transportation!
By rm miamisburg
April 17, 2010 8:55 PM | Link to this
KARON, give it a break. How many reports and studies will show train travel wont pay? How much of our tax money will go for up keep of a train line and cars, that NO ONE will ride. How many would rather drive so they can stop and visit the many wonderful spots in Ohio. OH YEAH you can’t do that via trains. You can’t stop along the way to take in the biggest basket AKA Longaberger (?) HQ. You can’t do that when you are riding a train. You can’t take an exit and visit the Miamisburg Mound or any of the Mounds in Ohio via Train. You can’t take in “The OSU” playing Fb, then hop a train to Canton for dinner at an Amish restaurant near Canton. So why do we want more tax money going to something that few will ever use. No Cincy Reds games as they trains would leave before the game would ever start, or going to watch the Browns play and get back to Dayton the same day. How much will go to having to stay over night, when driving one can do all of the above and it would be the same day. OH Did I mention it would be cheaper to drive then take a train? Up and back for the Brown or Bengals game. Less time for the trip less cost over all. SO Please KARON, get off with something other then trains. People in Dayton are tired of you.
By D-rail
April 17, 2010 8:06 PM | Link to this
AMTRAK is, was, and forever will be an abject failure and illustration of incompetence and mismanagement. The most populace centers in the US have train service and cannot make it even break even – let alone make a profit. The US Government (meaning we taxpayers) provide $2.6 billion a year in Amtrak funding through 2013 and the even with INCREASED ridership (almost historic highs) it still looses and additional $32 per passenger, 4 times what AMTRAK had estimated. Ohio won’t get schedules that are convenient to intercity travelers, the cities have insufficient public transit to support an riders that would care to ride, and there will be insufficient demand to increase schedules to make it viable. Dayton public transportation is typical for cities on the proposed train route Each day about 40,000 bus trips are taken in RTA vehicles (busses, vans, etc.); last year total ridership was 11.2 million. About 62 percent of riders use the bus for work and 13 percent to get to school, according to RTA statistics. The RTA budget is approximately $57.25 million with more than 60% coming from public funds. Each ride cost more than $5 with the public picking up more than $3. The same economics will be the result of the passenger railroad with increasing public funding of a resource used by fewer and fewer people. Use OUR money to reduce the deficit, thereby promoting fiscal responsibility and jobs growth.
By ileftdayton
April 17, 2010 4:29 PM | Link to this
OK daytonians, let the money go maybe to make our trains around New York faster and more reliable. I’ll be at work while you are sitting in your general motors car wondering why it takes so long as you burn up gas making those oil-rich nations richer.
By karon
April 17, 2010 12:46 PM | Link to this
Senator Harris needs a history review about these trains. First Governor Taft a republican wanted trains for the state and had Tom Seney a republican also, did the master plan! Governor Strickland a democrat got the money to do the trains! Build these trains!
By CJD
April 17, 2010 11:33 AM | Link to this
.5% of the ODOT budget? I agree with Harris on one thing, that the proposed line should be faster and more frequent and I fully support using 10% of the ODOT budget to get a high speed rail system off the ground. All of our transportation development is heavily subsidized, using the old Amtrak subsidies argument doesn’t work.
By grumpy
April 17, 2010 11:29 AM | Link to this
400 million will only get this thing started. Where is the rest of the money coming from? What will the total cost be? What happens if it fails? Afraid this will be another state funded project in a state that can’t even balance it’s budget. This country is being pushed more and more toward the European life style. No thank you, I have been there. Don’t like it.
By Kern
April 17, 2010 11:15 AM | Link to this
Amtract never made a penny, just cost us lot of money. RTA in dayton is a joke, empty buses or near empty buses. Now they want to add to this nonsense? Vote out strickland and all big tax spenders, we don’t need them. Warren Buffet bought the largest train company in US. If he thinks they can make money with a rail system in Ohio, let him do it and take the risk.. chances are he wont..cause the risk isnt worth it, something the govt never does a good job and doing..evaluating risk.. can the train and the spenders
By Joe H
April 17, 2010 8:10 AM | Link to this
People are acting as though the United States has the money to spend. Does Ohio has the spare funds to subsidize shortfalls? NO! Quite spending money we do not have and putting us in deeper debt.
By Reddy Killowatt
April 17, 2010 5:30 AM | Link to this
If Strickland was concerned about doing what is right he would be preparing Ohio for the real future - building charging stations in strategic locations for the electric cars that are coming our way. I can’t believe some of the comments here, that it’s better for Ohio to spend money whether it gets us anything or not, just as long as ee spend it. No wonder this nation is full of people with credit card problems.
By Ohio's Future
April 17, 2010 4:59 AM | Link to this
The Governor is “fighthing to create jobs”. To be clear,the jobs will come from the following: 1)gambling(casinos) 2)trains(3-C rail system) 3)Future debt(extending the 3rd Frontier-$700 million) These are the areas that our leaders believe will turn Ohio around.
By karon
April 16, 2010 11:58 PM | Link to this
That bridge in Cleveland cost 450 million for a repair job and that was just ONE bridge! Yes Senator Harris Ohio can afford a 400 million dollar passenger train for the state!
By Jim
April 16, 2010 11:12 PM | Link to this
Get Real, What you’re failing to realize, is that the money has already been appropriated in the stimulus bill. Why should Ohio allow 400 million, and all the jobs it creates, go to another state? Harris is being an obstructionist at the expense of the people of Ohio.
By Chris
April 16, 2010 11:12 PM | Link to this
The $400M in improvements would be worth it just for the track improvements for freight, so that private businesses can operate more efficiently and enhance Ohio’s transportation system. Harris knows that—he’s not stupid—he’s good at playing politics and giving money to other states.
By hereyago
April 16, 2010 11:02 PM | Link to this
To “concerned”: Then are you concerned about the OTHER 99.95% we spend on roads!!!! I know, we should all only use the means of travel that YOU USE!!! Sounds like something I’ve heard before called COMMUNISM!!! WE should only use the particular means of travel that this guy uses and give $400M to somewhere else…Ohio doesn’t need an economy anyway. WHY should MY tax dollars go towards providing a CHOICE??? Oh, because concerned is concerned that we should not spend 0.05% of ODOTs $ for CHOICE!!!!
By Jim
April 16, 2010 10:59 PM | Link to this
It’s absurd to pass up 400 million in stimulus money and let it to go to another state. Sure, the plan isn’t perfect, but it’s a start. Trains are very successful in Europe and could be here. People like Harris are more concerned about obstructing Obama, than helping the people of Ohio.
By get real
April 16, 2010 10:57 PM | Link to this
So chileHEAD, if the person opposes your view, they are an obstructionist? Maybe it’s the other way around. I’m glad that in this economy and sinkhole of a state, there is 25 million extra dollars for a study. The rail will fail, but you stupid liberal green people dont care, its all make believe money anyway. Spend your money,leave mine alone windbags.
By Concerned
April 16, 2010 10:51 PM | Link to this
To whatgives and karon, Walking is not crowded, I suggest you get started now. The idea that we have to take money for a project that we cannot afford to operate, will not benefit most Ohioans, and is being paid for by money borrowed from the Chinese, makes absolutely no sense. This needs to be stopped now before another dime is wasted. I applaud Senator Bill Harris. Keep up the good work. We are broke. Reduce spending NOW!
By greenchilehead
April 16, 2010 10:17 PM | Link to this
Harris should go stick a railroad spike up his obstructionist republican posterior and suck on the exhaust of a hummer. Moron!
By parental
April 16, 2010 10:15 PM | Link to this
Amanda Wurst is NOT elected. She is a big mouth talking head. Why won’t accountable people from Strickland’s admin speak? They are liars and they are afraid! Why else not lay it on the line BIG TED?
By riverat
April 16, 2010 10:08 PM | Link to this
Trains and tracks for everyone! You might want to check or proofread your article Bill. How can you connect Dayton twice on one rail????
By karon
April 16, 2010 9:36 PM | Link to this
watch the video , Taken for A ride, it explains what happen to america transportation system! Watch from the internet!
By get out of town
April 16, 2010 9:33 PM | Link to this
Let’s run Strickland and Karon the moron out of town on the RAIL. They can ride one way outta here! Put a train in where there is sufficient population who would use it… not just for the Morons like Stricknine..Strikland. Karon, will you be making daily trips on the train to support it? I think not! If you like trains and the nostalgia that goes with it, Kings Island opens tomorrow and they have a train you can ride!
By whatgives
April 16, 2010 9:25 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe that with an 11 percent jobless rate, we would just GIVE AWAY $400M!!! Plus, hard working Americans such as myself deserve the FREEDOM of having an additional transportation option! These Draconian ideals of REFUSING to allow additional options are NOT fair to future generations. I find it OUTRAGEOUS that some “leaders” want to take tax dollars—our hard-earned dollars—out of OUR POCKETS and give them to another state so that THEY have the freedom to choose a different form of transportation. Making me stick to highways is SOCIALIST!!!!!!!!!
By Why?
April 16, 2010 9:20 PM | Link to this
Why did Ohio get rid of trains back in the 70s? Maybe the car has made the train obsolete in areas of the country that aren’t as dense as NYC.
By karon
April 16, 2010 8:55 PM | Link to this
Governor Strickland dont back down , this money is about future transportation and connecting Ohio with other states and bringing back OHIO cities and the Jobs that it will create!