By mwm

September 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Did Bush tell the truth? He has lied so often in the past eight years. How do we Americans know that Bush is telling the truth? Or, is this yet another, “the boogie man is gonna get you”? A financial alert color code chart? If he did tell the truth, why did he not say a word about it a year or so ago? He does have an MBA out of Harvard. Or was that during his keg party years? Anyway, if we dive into a deep recession, and if millions of americans lose their jobs, their homes and their life savings, I would suggest that the members of congress find another place to live. There will be way too many angry people around. Perhaps they could find the island their offshore accounts are at and only come to DC to collect their paychecks. They may not be welcome in their home states.

By TRS

September 30, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

This was the rawest and nastiest bit of partisanship I have ever seen in my lifetime. Nancy Pelosi showed that she is incapable of leading anything as she would rather make a hyper partisan speech trying to divert attention from Democratic involvement in this mess and blaming it all on Republicans, take credit for resolving the issue and then expect Republicans to go along. In addition, The Democratic leadership was telling those in vulnerable seats they had enough votes and didn’t have to vote in favor so they could protect their seat and to add insult to injury 5 of her own leadership, Committee chairs, voted against it! Then she accuses Republicans of being at fault when she couldn’t deliver 95 of her own party. What a dolt! Many Republicans and Democrats who voted against it did vote their conscience; but, for anyone on the fence, Pelosi’s hyper partisanship sealed the deal. This was unpopular enough with the public that politicians feared getting their head chopped off - Pelosi was trying to take them out at the knees as well. Over half of Americans are invested in the Stock Market in some way, either 401s, IRAs, etc. I’m not looking at my IRAs because it is to depressing and I’m not alone. This is not a Wall Street bailout - this is a bailout of everyone who needs the market to perform to protect their investments! After the immediate situation is taken care of, then they can look into the issues which caused this mess and there will plenty of dirty hands and mismanagement on both sides of the aisle. I imagine their will be another bill by the end of the week - hopefully Pelosi will just shut the heck up and perhaps it will pass.

By CW

September 30, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

Hi, No, Bush isn’t lying. I’ve been in the industry & it failed as he said due to the reasons he advised mostly, but not just lender fault. CRA loans (Community Reinvestment Act) are an example of a gov’t regulated way to force lenders to make loans that might not be that great to do. Most of it is greed on many levels though. At any rate, we are where we are now and as Bush said, killing Wall Street will nail us all, and it will. Your retirement 401Ks, stocks, pensions, all of that good stuff and then the nasty unwinding of the entire structure will occur. Thus the bailout is necessary, but I too, feel WE THE PEOPLE need to get something out of it. I have sent the following electronic letter to both OH Senators and Rep Dave Hobson tonight. Anyone reading this, if you agree, please help to push the idea onward to anyone who may listen, help, or get it heard. Our economy is failing for MANY reasons and if we have to fund it, shouldn’t we get SOMETHING OUT OF IT TOO? I’m hoping SELLIOT can help send it on too. Thanks and here’s my letter. CW Dear Senator Brown, I am certain your email is exploding regarding the bailout situation. I personally work for a “financial institution” and am very up close and personal with this situation and have been for some time. I’ve been in the mortgage industry for 11+ years and I have many an opinion on how this debacle has happened, including thoughts on the economic factors of impact. Rather than burden you with my thoughts on the “how we got here” and waste your time as it is what it is, I am really wondering why no one has stated the obvious thing missing from this “bailout package” that would truly SPUR the economy and benefit the US Citizen being asked to fund this rescue measure. That one thing is this: Regardless of the package w/frills that Congress passes, it needs to include the fundamental mandate that if that institution takes Uncle Sam’s handout, they must commit to the health and welfare of the US Economy in so that they will return EVERY OFF-SHORE, OUT-SOURCED position within their organization to the US and will no longer employ workers outside of this country. Future hiring must be US Citizens only. They can set their wages however they like, but they must employ US Citizens that are within US soil areas (no citizens working abroad). Should they pay back what they borrowed w/a modest interest rate included then, and only then, can they be released from their obligation to the US Economy. This truly is win-win and not rocket science. You put the money in the US citizens pockets by employing them and keep the businesses open and make interest to boot as they pay it back (or require that if they want release from the deal, then they pay an interest rate). This to me is so Captain Obvious and I do not understand why NO ONE ON THE HILL ventures here. If you want the people to buy into this, then give and do something FOR THE PEOPLE. I think this idea warrants exploration and intend on taking my thoughts public locally and as far at they can be heard. I have sent same letter to Rep David Hobson and will attempt to contact Senator George Voinovich as well. I am hoping you will consider this option and take it to those who can ponder it. I want our country to thrive and I fear what is around the corner for all of us. We need this bailout, I do believe that, but it will not work on its own. You must spur the economy as well. Too many folks are losing their jobs. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, CW

By mwm

September 30, 2008 5:04 AM | Link to this

The republicans are as much to blame by politicizing the whole situation. From McCain “suspending” his campaign, except, of course, for attack ads and photo ops, just to interject nothing into the negotiations. And crybaby Boehner with his rants. 2 to 1 the public blames the republicans for the financial crisis. They look bad. Only 1/3 of the republicans voted in favor. There are growing divisions within their party. Some are up for reelection and may have voted due to that. Since to them, it is more important to save their own jobs than anyone elses. So, they strike out at anyone that says anything. Perhaps they all should seek counselling for their inferiority complex.

By calvin

September 30, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Pelosi came to Washington to be bipartison. She was going to make this a cooperative congress. And she gives speeches like she did yesterday. I watched that on C-Span and thought how awful that was. That’s true especially considering Frank, Dodd, Clinton and advisor Rubin were the ones pushing Fannie Mae to lower any expectation of requirements for mortgages to push incapable repayers into mortgages. As for MWM and attacks of personal destruction on Bush, let’s talk about Clinton, cocaine, lots of people dying, Osama, attacks on women, and about OBama and RAines/money and others from Fannie/Freddie and more if you want to go personal rather than political. Right now some kind of fixes need to be put in place to get rid of uncontrolled mortgages and the institutions leveraging them beyond reality. Partisanship has to be put behind. Conservative republicans want so immediate changes in the bank system to free up money that don’t require legislation.

By Old Guy

September 30, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

The update from Nate Silver says it all. The Dems and Reps were only putting up enough votes to get the bill thru. To the bitter end they were playing politics,positioning their candidates for plausible denial. I am convinced that mavericks will have no hope of running this country because the Congress knows all the tricks.

By TRS

September 30, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Editors - your opinion in this AM paper absolutely misses the mark. You seem to be blaming Republicans for having a temper tantrum; yet, giving Pelosi a pass for her hyper partisanship and lack of emotional control, something which reflects she is incapable of leading. This was important stuff and Pelosi should have been focusing on what it took to pass the bill. You do not build consensus by accusing others of being unpatriotic and blaming them for everything. Why couldn’t she deliver the votes? She has a majority! The issue wasn’t a temper tantrum so much as establishing a framework for beginning a process which gets to the root causes of this mess and it all doesn’t rest with the Bush Administration. There will be more than enough blame to go around. Its called truth and at one time I thought journalists were interested in that. I understand that decisions should be rational and not emotional but tell me - what was rational about Pelosi’s speech?

By Raoul

September 30, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

There you go again, mwm. Bush lied, blah, blah, blah. He warned against this ‘bailout’ mindset that liberals created among mortgagers and mortgagees. Apparently, he wasn’t lying. He also was not lying when he told Saddam to once and for all disclose his weapons programs, or we would topple his regime, He didn;t, we did. No lie there. This recent crisis is the result of liberal do gooders using quasi-government agencies to force lenders to make loans to people not able to afford them. The money flow found it’s way to Chris Dodd, Barack Obama, and a whos’s who of Democrat appointees (Jamie Gorelick, et al.). And you want to blame Bush. Pelosi and Frank tried hard to ram legislation through before we could look behind the curtain. Now, Chris Dodd and the ‘brilliant’ Barney Frank are on board to correct the flaws? It’s liberal do gooders like you who should bear the cost of this mess. Your liberal policies are killing our country, not George Bush. He’s not the leader I hoped he would be, but he sure has been put to the test. All of the stupid policies of Democrat do gooders have come home to roost under his watch. You and all of your liberal pals ought to stay out of the discussion on this bailout issue and let conservatives figure out how to get us out of it. Any thing liberals have to say on this subject tends to reinfoce why they should never, ever, get any power in this country.

By Alice

September 30, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

TRS, when another bill comes along I hope anyone “on the fence” can deflate their egos enough to vote their conscience (and hopefully pass it) regardless of what anyone else including Pelosi says to them. I agree that the time was not right for her to make a speech but to blame her comments for not doing what they believed in is juvenile. I think that the lawmakers who were so offended by Pelosi that they could not think for themselves or their constituents should be bold enough to say so publicly and not hide behind some party leader that also likes to give nasty speeches.

By Mike

September 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

TRS, have you actually watched the complete video of the speech Pelosi gave on the floor? I keep seeing you describe it as “hyper-partisan”. Could you tell me exactly what she said that is “hyper-partisan”? And I seemed to miss the part where she accused anyone of being “unpatriotic”. Not one Republican who took to the floor after Pelosi seemed to even take notice of what she had said. If it was such a hyper-partisan speech I find it very curious that no one took umbrage at the time. It was only after the failure of Boehner to deliver the votes he had promised in order to make this vote a true bipartisan passage of the bill that the Republican leadership started to wet their collective pants. Your contentions are nothing but strawmen.

By mwm

September 30, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

The McCain campaign is faltering. He is losing support from the middle class and his own party. The Palin selection is yet another example of McCain putting his own interests ahead of the american people. It is not unusal for people to look at Bush and question his word. He has used scare tactics in the past, in order to push a lie based war. And, use fear as a motivator to get reelected. Boehner has lost support from his constituents and his own party. If our economy goes in the toilet, people are going to blame the republicans. The republicans claimed some sort of moral authority and claimed to be the corporate authority. They have failed our country. The republicans of today are not the same as the republicans of the past. Reagan, Goldwater, Ike,. Those guys were great . And stuck to their core beliefs. The garbage in the current republican party is nothing like them. They are a splintered faction of distorted Reagan era republicans mixed with power hungry fools. The housing/building boom turned out to be a limited false economy. Which ran on debt as a final product. Look at all the empty houses and strip malls. The bailout may work if a public works program is also initiated. Yes, somewhat socialistic. But, the alternative is much more severe. The building industry may halt. And, all that supplies the building industry will halt. People will not have any purchasing power and the entire economy will falter. The bailout may keep some things going however, the housing boom is history. And, forclosures will continue. Fewer homeowners means less revenue for cities. This in turn will put more burden on the homeowners that are left. Or, cities will start screaming for money. Fewer workers means fewer big purchases. So, real estate, automotive industy and big toys will not be purchased. And, more foreclosures and bankruptcies. Our country is in for hard times; with or without the bailout. Most people saw what was happening. Just look around. Empty houses and empty strip malls. All built on debt. The current president and congress ignored it. Houses will continue to drop in value. Because people can’t get loans. It is not rocket science. It is greed.

By mwm

September 30, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Just tried to inject some fear mongering… everyone else is. But, for anyone to trust Bush after his eight years of lies? And, the fact that the Bush administration ran on fear, lies, intimidation and threats.

By TRS

September 30, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Alice - Pelosi is supposed to be the leader. She presented this as an imperative that if not passed bore great consequence; yet, her actions reflected otherwise. It wasn’t just what she said - it was what she did. 1st, the House Democratic leadership told 15 of the most vulnerable Dems it was OK to vote no to protect their seats. If she were serious, a speaker should be able to bring those she appointed to leadership positions along; yet, five of her committee chairs voted no. A speaker should have influence with those she is close with; yet, some of her closest friends voted against it. The Republicans were sitting in the well of the house seeing all this going on around them and based on Pelosi’s acitons they could draw only two conclusions - #1 they were being set up for political purposes and #2 the speaker wasn’t serious about wanting the bill passed. Given that the constiuent calls were coming in 9 to 1 against and how easy it was to see through Pelosi’s actions, voting no became easy. Personally I believe she wanted to keep the chaos going because it is obviously helping her candidate. Her actions as speaker certainly do not reflect the “integrity” she claimed to be bringing to the House - she’s just another partisan hack seeking power.

By TRS

September 30, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Mike - she blamed the entire mess on the Bush administation and Republicans when in reality the Fannie/Freddie mess has Democratic mismanagement and possible corruption written all over it. Her “unpatriotic Republicans” comment was not in the speech but came earlier when she accused them of missing a meeting that Senator Dodd acknowledged they weren’t invited to. On another note, to prove that miracles are real, I find myself agreeing somewhat with MWM on something. The Republicans did lose their way. A return to the principles of Reagan is indeed what they need and I believe should they lose this election will return to. They also need some new faces and I would say Boehner will not be a leader in the next Congress.

By Brigade 2506

October 1, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

CW makes some sensible points, but not sure the proposal to compel US firms to hire only US citizens is practical, even if the dictate were limited to operations in “US soil areas”. Many US multinationals, especially in the service sector, go offshore not to export jobs, but to exploit opportunities in specific country markets, while remitting profits home. Often this requires sending a team of US professional and managerial staff, to run the in-country operation. Currently, there are hundreds of thousands of US executives working abroad, running significant manufacturing and service sector concerns. What would be their fate, should we take a US citizen only approach in our local hiring ? And how about the scores of foreign companies that employ US citizens here in the US? Shall we say “verboten” to Daimler Benz and BMW because they employ German nationals at their plants in Alabama and South Carolina ? Or will it be “adios” to Cemex because they have Mexican managers to oversee US operations, yet overlook the fact that the firm employs 11,000 Americans? Economies are so interconnected that in pursuing such a course, we run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

By JS

October 1, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Listen, we as American’s can not afford this. Why bail out the businesses? This will only be a temporary solution…in a few months, they will be back in the same situation. American’s are in an economic depression. With Dayton being in the top ten of rapidly declining cities we do not have the money to pay these increased taxes. Who can afford to go out shopping? Why not give the money to home owners and have them stimulate the economy.