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Ellen Belcher is the Dayton Daily News opinion pages editor. She writes about state government, education, the environment, higher education and all things Dayton.
Martin Gottlieb is an editorial writer and columnist for the Dayton Daily News opinion pages. He focuses on the political process itself and does such national issues as war, the economy, taxes and Social Security, as well as a hodge-podge of local and state issues.
Scott Elliott is an editorial writer and columnist for the Dayton Daily News opinion pages. He writes about education, city and suburban issues, politics, business, workforce and consumer issues.Home > Blogs > A Matter of Opinion > Archives > 2008 > October > 02
Thursday, October 2, 2008
Does this end the debate over Palin?
I think perhaps this debate will put to rest the Palin pick as an issue that possibly was hurting McCain. Palin came across fine. She didn’t sound confused or uninformed as she did with Couric and Gibson. And she conveyed her folksy likeability. There was some feeling that the Saturday Night Live mocking and stumbling replays from her recent interviews were raising doubts about McCain’s decision to pick her and hurting McCain in the polls.
If that’s true, I think undecideds possibly were reassured that Palin did not come off looking crazy or dumb. This may stem the conversation about Palin, move her off the national radar and move the discussion about the president race back to McCain and Obama. I think we may hear less and less about Biden and Palin after this.
What do you think? Is the debate about Palin over after Biden’s debate with Palin? Let us know in the comments.
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TweetIt’s over, no knockout
10:33 First dude and the family are on the stage now, as is the Biden family. And reactions? Post them in the comments.
10:38 The networks are knocking Palin a bit for getting the name of the general in charge of Iraq wrong, calling “McKiernan” by the name “McClelland,” and for getting the number of troops in Iraq wrong. Some liberal blogs are hitting her for saying teachers will “get their reward in heaven,” suggesting that means rather than in pay here on earth. But this stuff is nitpicking not big gaffes.
10:45 Just checking in on some conservative blogs now. They are pretty happy about Palin’s performance. Some are raving about her plain talk. They like her saying “Nice to meet you, can I call you Joe?” at the start. Others fretted a bit about her ducking a couple questions, but the mood on the right is pretty bubbly.
10:50Who won the debate? Vote in our poll at the DDN’s politics blog.
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TweetDebate enters the stretch run
9:57 About half an hour left and so far no big moments to speak of. I think Paliin has performed better vs. Biden than McCain did with Obama, at least in terms of body language and expressions. She comes across warm and likeable and hasn’t made a big mistake yet.
9:59 Is Palin reading off note cards? I just noticed she is looking down at the podium a lot. She just asked Ifill if she could talk about Afganistan and then appeared to shuffle with her hands. While Biden speaks she is looking down and moving her hands but we can’t see what she is doing. She also might be taking notes.
10:01 I think I’ve picked up a couple audible sighs from Biden during Palin’s foreign policy answers. Sort of reminded me of Al Gore’s sighs. But again this happened off camera. It might not have been a mocking sigh. It might have been a genuine deep breath. I couldn’t tell.
10:03 Are people from Bosnia really “Bosniacs?” That’s what Biden just called them. Aren’t they Bosnians?
10:05 Palin busts senators like Biden and Obama for “voting for it before you were against it” on war issues and says she doesn’t get that since she’s “an outsider.” That gets a big smile from Biden. Seems like he might have a comeback ready for that. We’ll see.
10:07 No big comeback from Biden. He launches into a discussion of Darfur.
10:08 Palin stumbles a little bit but gets rolling with “John McCain knows how to win a war.”
10:09 Palin wants to bring reality from “Wasilla Main Street” to Washington. Get government out of the way so it doesn’t put mandates on us and take our money, she says. And she says Obama will increase taxes.
10:10 Now Biden says walk the streets of Delaware and Scranton with me and see if they think the Bush economic plan is working for them.
10:11 Folksy Palin comes out. “There you go again looking backwards” at the Bush administration, she tells Biden. Winks at dad in the audience. Gives a “shout out” to an elementary school, giving extra credit to the kids who are watching.
10:15 With 15 minutes left, my wife says “this has been boring.” Good sign for Palin.
10:17 Palin bumbled a bit talking about the powers of the vice president’s office. Stumbled over her words, mostly. Not a gaffe. Biden calls Dick Cheney “the most dangerous vice president we’ve every had.” Says everyone should understand that the VP is in the executive branch. Palin said the constitution gives flexibility. Biden is killing Cheney, calling his executive branch argument for the VP “bizarre” and saying it has been bad for the country.
10:20 Biden brings up his wife’s death in a car accident to say he knows what life is like when things get rough. He also chokes up a bit talking about not knowing if his son would make it after the wreck. Interesting to see how this will play. Palin acted as if nothing happened and just went on with a prepared answer. I think she missed an opportunity to look compassionate and human by acknowledging Biden’s personal struggle in some way.
10:24 Biden is finishing very strong. He is beating McCain up for not being a maverick on “the things that matter” and throwing out a bunch of real life examples on things McCain voted against.
10:26 Biden also gives a good answer about changing his view on a tough issue by bringing up the supreme court and the importance of ideology of judicial nominees. It’s a subtle signal to supporters of liberal court issues like abortion.
10:28 Palin says she has never really had to change her view of any major issue because she finds a way to compromise. Weird answer.
10:30 No big winner tonight, which means Palin supporters have to be thrilled. Most people probably tuned in tonight to see if she would implode. She did not. Biden finished strong and overall did fine. But he was expected to win. He may have scored more points, but this was not a knockout.
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TweetNow we’re on to foreign policy
9:40 Palin hails the surge and says Obama didn’t support the troops with funding. She says even Biden criticized Obama’s vote.
9:42 Palin says we are getting “closer and closer” to victory in Iraq. Biden claims McCain also voted against funding the troops. This is getting into the murky senate voting process where there may be several votes on many bills depending on what has been added or subtracted.
9:43 Palin says Dems position is to “waive the white flag” in Iraq. Will these lines work with a public that is very opposed to the war?
9:45 Palin is using Biden’s words against him, especially things he said about Obama in the primary race.
9:46 Biden is hitting back hard on McCain on the the war, calling him wrong, wrong, wrong. Perhaps his most effective line so far, echoing Obama in the presidential debate.
9:48Biden at least sounds a lot more confident talking about foreign affairs than on domestic issues. He is trying to turn the conversation to Bin Laden, Afganistan and Pakistan.
9:52 Biden hits McCain on his gaffe for saying he wouldn’t meet with the president of Spain. I thought Palin would have an answer for that but she takes a pass. No zingers from Palin yet after almost an hour.
9:54 Does Biden not know whether this is the “seventh or eighth year” of the Bush administration?
9:56 Everybody loves Israel! Both candidates try to one up each other on their love for Israel.
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TweetDebate is underway; Biden and Palin mixing it up some
9:17 I notice Palin is talking less about Alaska than she usually does. She often turns questions about national issues back to things that happened in Alaskan politics. I wonder if she has been steered away from that.
9:18 Palin refers to Obama as “Barack.” Interesting since Obama in his debate also called McCain “John” the whole time. Palin says she is in the middle class and that government is the problem for families like her, citing taxes.
9:19 Palin stumbled a bit explaining McCain’s health plan, but not too badly. She seemed to get a bit lost in her words, warning about having health care taken over by “the fed.” But overall she is doing well presenting the McCain side of the issues. Now Biden is going deep into Obama’s plan and zings Palin by saying McCain’s plan is “the ultimate bridge to nowhere.” Gets a chuckle from the crowd.
9:22 Biden stumbles over “characterized.” But overall he seems pretty smooth. You can see his senate experience in the way he speaks.
9:23 Palin is sort of rambling while talking about Alaska and oil companies, saying she fought oil company “greed.” Not her best answer and she may get hit here for misrepresenting her work in Alaska.
9:27 Biden is beating the snot out of oil companies in his answers on energy, painting them as gouging consumers and trying to tie McCain to them.
9:29 Palin defends McCain’s campaign suspension and says he helped. Again a bumpy answer though with some awkward phrasing. She’s had a couple moments now where the echo of her network interviews could be heard. But overall she is coming off OK so far. Half an hour in, she has not had a big stumble.
9:31 Has there ever been this much talk about Alaska in a national debate?
9:32 Ifill goes after climate change, an issue Palin stumbled on with Couric. Palin talks more about Alaska but says she does not attribute all climate change to man’s activities.
9:34 Biden strongly asserts the cause of climate change is man made and suggests it is a fundamental difference that McCain/Palin don’t understand that. And Biden is now touting clean coal, which he panned just days ago.
9:35 Biden: “I have always supported clean coal.” Huh?
9:36 Biden now says his anti-clean coal comment was taken out of context and that he was referring to exporting the technology to China. There will be questions about this for sure.
9:39 Biden says the constitution requires benefits to same sex couples and expresses strong support for gay couples to have the the same rights as other couples. Palin says she is tolerant but said she worries about changing the definition of marriage. She says McCain would never prohibit gay couples from visitation rights. Biden now says he does not support gay marriage. He says this question should be left to the faiths to decide.
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TweetDebate is about to begin
8:49 Gwen Ifill is in her spot and warming up the crowd, waring about noise and such. I’m watching on C-Span. T-minus 11 minutes.
8:56 Here’s the first conspiracy theory of the night. A friend who is for Obama told me Palin will wear her hair down over her ears tonight rather than in her trademark bun. He thinks she is wearing an earpiece to receive instructions for how to answer. I think that’s more than a stretch.
8:59 What are the chances this debate is just boring and nothing of note happens? That would be a let down.
9:00 Here come the candidates. Palin’s hair is off the ears. No earpiece! :-) They greet each other politely. Both are wearing dark suits. Light blue tie for Biden.
9:05 Ifill starts off with a question on the bailout. A bit of a rambling answer by Biden. He seems nervous and wordy.
9:08 Palin takes us to a kids soccer game for an answer and tosses in a folksy “betcha.” Nice touches. Pailn’s a little wordy but made her points well.
9:09 Biden goes right after McCain, citing the “fundamentals of our economy are strong” quote that has haunted McCain. Palin was ready for it with a solid answer. And now she’s hitting Obama as a party line voter vs. the maverick McCain.
9:11Palin blames predator lenders for the financial crisis. So far she is doing well. She does not sound confused or uninformed.
9:13 Biden is all but ignoring Palin and talking only about McCain. He is playing the attack dog role. Some Democrats have complained he has not done this well. Biden’s making strong eye contact with Palin while she speaks.
9:15 Hmmm. Biden: “The governor did not answer the question about de-regulation.” Palin: I may not answer the questions the way you or the moderator want to hear. But I am going to speak straight to the American people.” They’re mixing it up some now.
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TweetLet’s talk expectations
So for tonight’s vice presidential debate, what should we be watching for?
—Sarah Palin. Everyone wants to know how she will sound. Will her answers be substantial or nonsensical, as her critics say she was with Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson? Does she actually not know much about national politics, or was she just nervous in other interviews?
There’s talk Palin has prepared some zinger lines to gotcha Biden or Obama, hoping the news coverage will focus on the one-liners in its post-game coverage. She was effective in Alaska gubernatorial debates being folksy and funny. But here she will have to be adequately substantive with her answers. That’s what everyone is watching for, and that’s her challenge.
—Joe Biden. There’s been a heavy focus on Palin’s missteps, but the truth is Biden has made a bunch of gaffes of his own and has a long track record of just the sort of bumble that could really hurt here. Meanwhile, he will have to handle Palin carefully. He can’t look mean or consdescending. And body language is important. Just ask John McCain about eye contact and facial expressions. Some experts think his posture in the presidential debate has contributed to his slide in the polls.
—Gwen Ifill. It’s kind of hard to believe the Presidential Debate Commission picked a moderator who was in the middle of writing a book about one of the candidates, but in fact Ifill is writing one about Barack Obama. The McCain campaign has publicly pressured her not to go too hard on Palin. And the debate format is reportedly very limiting. Those are a lot of issues to manage.
And pre-debate impressions? Share them in the comments.
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TweetJoin us here for live blogging during tonight’s debate
We’re going to try something new here at the Matter of Opinion blog tonight during the vice presidential debate. As the debate unfolds, I’ll be here posting some real-time impressions and reaction. We’ll be watching for gaffes and to see who is scoring points.
I hope you’ll join us here. As you watch the debate, pull this blog up on your computer and keep refreshing your screen for updates. If you see something we don’t, jump in with a comment. Or let us know about what you think of our observations. We’ll probably get started at about 8:45 p.m. and continue for at least a short while after the debate.
This has to be the most anticipated vice presidential debate in history. And with both Sarah Palin and Joe Biden having made a series of gaffes in recent weeks, it could be interesting.
I hope you’ll come along for the ride.
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