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Ellen Belcher is the Dayton Daily News opinion pages editor. She writes about state government, education, the environment, higher education and all things Dayton.
Martin Gottlieb is an editorial writer and columnist for the Dayton Daily News opinion pages. He focuses on the political process itself and does such national issues as war, the economy, taxes and Social Security, as well as a hodge-podge of local and state issues.Home > Blogs > A Matter of Opinion > Archives > 2009 > August > 12 > Entry
Martin Gottlieb: Those town hall disrupters can serve good purpose
Something seems wrong about the fact that the Miami Valley is essentially missing from the great fight about health care.
We’re used to being at the center of things political. Let there be a national election, and all eyes turn to Ohio, most particularly to the parts that swing back and forth between the parties.
But this month we’re seeing something a little like a national election, in the realm of policy. President Barack Obama is pushing hard for dramatic health care reform. The fate of the issue might come down to what the members of Congress decide about public opinion after visiting home for the August recess.
But we’re really only talking about Democrats in Congress, of which there aren’t any from the Miami Valley.
Republican legislators are presumed to be hostile. While the foes of reform see some hope in targeting Democrats in Congress, proponents of reform see none in targeting Republicans.
You’ve heard how people are showing up at Democratic town hall meetings, often with the purpose of disrupting. This is causing the Democrats to reconsider holding such meetings.
Most politicians know better than to take the turnout at a meeting as a good indicator of public opinion. Truth is, the moderate legislators who are being targeted pride themselves on representing the kind of normal, moderate, open-minded people who don’t scream their heads off at public meetings. They typically don’t play to the highly vocal “base” of either party.
So they will be looking at polls, too. But the polls show a tough sell for change. Roughly, the same thing is happening this time as when President Bill Clinton tried to get reform enacted: With most people being satisfied with their own insurance, the opposition is successfully raising the alarm that reform will change things for the worse.
The drama is playing out in Ohio, if not through town hall meetings, then otherwise. This is partly because Democrats hold marginal House districts around Columbus and Cincinnati areas and in eastern and northern Ohio. The attempt to stack and disrupt public meetings is probably a good thing, all things considered. The resulting drama can focus attention on the issue. The more attention the better. Maybe, as a result, actual information will get out. As things stand, misinformation seems to predominate.
At this newspaper, I frequently get this rhetorical question: If the Obama health insurance plan is so wonderful, why don’t the politicians have to sign up for it?
The question makes no sense. There is no plan that anybody has to sign up for. The vast majority of people who already have health insurance through work could keep their plan.
That’s the most important decision the reformers have made: They are not proposing a whole new system.
One of their proposals is a “public option,” wherein some people could choose a health care plan run by the government. The politicians in Congress are already covered by such a plan. One of Barack Obama’s campaign points in 2008 was, if we politicians can have something like this — a great plan — why shouldn’t the public have access?
Another case I often hear against reform is that the Massachusetts plan for universal care is a failure. Actually, the more attention focused on Massachusetts, the better. That state has achieved nearly universal coverage quickly, and has done so without breaking its budget.
There have also been problems in Massachusetts, to be sure. But there are always problems in health care. How severe they are is a debate worth having.
It’d certainly be better than what’s passing for debate now.
The White House has put out the message that when its supporters hear something “fishy” coming from opponents of reform, they should let the White House know. In response, Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., leader of the Senate Republicans, said this was appalling; he implied that it smacked of President Richard Nixon’s enemies list.
Nonsense. The White House was just saying, if you hear a charge that sounds like it might be untrue — like reform would facilitate killing old people — let us know; we’ll respond.
There are certainly legitimate qualms to be raised about the various reform plans. The reformers often seem to be overpromising when they insist that more people will have coverage even as costs are brought under control.
Such real issues get a lot of attention in Congress. Somehow, though, when the debate extends out into the country — the supposedly “real” world — the debate turns unreal.
Permalink | Comments (39) | Post your comment | Categories: Columns, Martin Gottlieb, National Politics, Ohio politics, Social Services
Comments
By Alice
August 12, 2009 5:59 PM | Link to this
I hope you’re right Martin - it feels like it’s getting bloodier out here. The more I try to have honest discussion the more time I spend debunking false information. I feel like the tactic is to distract and keep people confused so they don’t have time or are too afraid and emotionally exhausted to find the truth… and I feel like they’re succeeding.By Raoul
August 12, 2009 6:24 PM | Link to this
Many of the people that are disrupting town hall meetings have read the bill; it seems that many of the legislators that are hosting the meetings have not. It should be obvious to anyone that the logical outcome of so-called reform to include a government option will lead to rationing of health care far in excess of that which the insurance companies now do. Insurers will be at a disadvantage to a subsidized ;government option’. When legislators possess less knowledge of the actual bill than the town hall attendees, it’s hard to take issue with those that dissent, most of wich are seniors.By drunken orangetree
August 12, 2009 6:32 PM | Link to this
Raoul, if they had read the bill then they wouldn’t be spouting a bunch of nonsense about what is in the bill.By Mike
August 12, 2009 7:49 PM | Link to this
If you read the current house bill (which is available) you will see that you will be required to join the government plan if you change jobs. Your employer will not be able to change service providers without causing a penalty of forcing employees onto the public system. This isn’t nonsense, it is in the bill. Also bear in mind that there are 3 other ‘committee ’ bills that have different wording but are not available for the public to read yet. That is the reason some politicians state this and that is not in the bill. What they don’t say is which bill they read and reference too.By drunken orangetree
August 12, 2009 8:03 PM | Link to this
Mike, cites please.By TRS
August 13, 2009 12:19 AM | Link to this
Martin - you note the states are not proposing a whole new system. At the moment true; but, supporters such as Barney Frank and others have openly said they want a single pay system and believe the public option is the vehicle that can get them there. As for Mass, did you check their budget deficit or is cost irrelevant?By joe_mamma
August 13, 2009 8:21 AM | Link to this
Why can’t you just look at the likely consequence of instituting the public option as it proposed Martin? Be honest. As proposed there will be choice, but it will eventually over time drive private insurance out of business and leave us with a single payer system!!! If that is what you want then state that. But quit trying to sell this notion that private insurance will always be available to us. What you are doing is incredibly disingenuous.**************** Here are some great reviews of the Massachusetts system. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124726287099225209.html#mod=djemEditorialPage http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120173996744030445.html?mod=opinionmaincommentariesBy Philman
August 13, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this
Marty why don’t you read the bill hb3200 p.16,you will not get to keep current INS. for long, not to mention their are 5 bills floating around, how much more confusing can it get, I think this is planned confusion.By Ronald Ashmore III
August 13, 2009 9:07 AM | Link to this
Yeah they do serve a purpose Martin…it’s called DEBATE. I know that you would like to just see Obama and his socialist cronies steamroll through the public, with there agenda for the destruction of the middle class. But America is tired of the nonsense and we are standing up to the pig…the tyrant….the liar. Those who refused to vote for the criminal are now telling the rest of the country “I told you so”. 75% of those who did vote for him now realize what a horrendous mistake it was. Never have we seen a president so incompetent, and I pray that never do we make this terrible type of mistake again. Fortunately Americans are rallying around the country to stop this maniac and his appetite for destruction. It’s time to wake up and realize that not everyone shares your socialist, utopian dreams Mr. Gottlieb. The answer to healthcare is simple. Give me options on my healthplan. Let me choose the services I need, and not have to pay for services I will never use like child birth, drug addiction counseling, lung issues from smoking. The government can’t even run the postal service or social security properly. Why on earth would be let these fools anywhere near our healthcare system. Obama already has Obama Motors, we don’t need Obama Care. The crackheads and lowlives can get jobs and then they will have healthcare. healthcare is not a right. But then again this is the same group of liberals that thing television is a right too…wasting our tax dollars to give people free digital tv converter boxes….amazing!By drunken orangetree
August 13, 2009 9:17 AM | Link to this
“But America is tired of the nonsense and we are standing up to the pig…the tyrant….the liar.” Wow! How could Mr. Gottlieb think the anti-reform people are being unreasonable?By Willard Morris
August 13, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
Unreasonable? NO. fed up with the lies and stealing from the middle class? YES. If you want this socialized nonsense, move to Canada. Let us see Osama and his criminal element in the congress and senate take the same heathcare that he is trying to shove down our throats. Let them enjoy it for the next 3 years. Something of this magnitude needs to be decided by the people, not the power hungry mongruls in Washington. So put your money where your mouth is Osama…you want a new kind of “politics”? Then let the people decide whether or not to accept Osama Care by a popular vote. It’s as easy as that. Impeach Buhrock Osama!!By Willard Morris
August 13, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this
Unreasonable? NO. fed up with the lies and stealing from the middle class? YES. If you want this socialized nonsense, move to Canada. Let us see Osama and his criminal element in the congress and senate take the same heathcare that he is trying to shove down our throats. Let them enjoy it for the next 3 years. Something of this magnitude needs to be decided by the people, not the power hungry mongruls in Washington. So put your money where your mouth is Osama…you want a new kind of “politics”? Then let the people decide whether or not to accept Osama Care by a popular vote. It’s as easy as that. Impeach Buhrock Osama!!By drunken orangetree
August 13, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
Did I say “unreasonable”? I’m sorry. I should have said “insane.”By Lauren Haley
August 13, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this
LOL…at least these town hall patriots serve a purpose. That is certainly more than I can say for the plump little leftist Martin Gottlieb and the liberal rag he works for. Haha. I cannot wait until this rag folds and goes belly up with the rest of the “news”papers.By drunken orangetree
August 13, 2009 1:39 PM | Link to this
What I’ve seen so far from the town hall “patriots” is insanity and insult. Care to add anything of substance to the argument, Lauren?By Maddi Breslin
August 13, 2009 2:59 PM | Link to this
Those yelling mobs drowning out speakers can hardly be called Town Hall meetings. Useless gatherings utilizing mouths for arm-twisting. Vote for my side or you’re gonna get it! How dumb is that!By Maddi Breslin
August 13, 2009 2:59 PM | Link to this
Those yelling mobs drowning out speakers can hardly be called Town Hall meetings. Useless gatherings utilizing mouths for arm-twisting. Vote for my side or you’re gonna get it! How dumb is that!By Maddi Breslin
August 13, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this
Those yelling mobs drowning out speakers can hardly be called Town Hall meetings. Useless gatherings utilizing mouths for arm-twisting. Vote for my side or you’re gonna get it! How dumb is that!By davidss2
August 13, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this
The party that bused in operatives and paid people to carry signs is accusing others of doing same to townhall meetings. Sorry it won’t work. The people showing up at townhalls are real people who vote and think about what and whom they vote for. The Sol Alinsky method of ridiculing your opponent here won’t work.———-That includes the orangetree who tries to act so mature. ———-The real shame is that Cox Newspapers doesn’t get balance on their editors here, and some transparency of whom the editors are and to whom they are married as to why they push their agenda like they do. Our own senator Brown is hiding his townhall meetings as roundtables only for the healthcare folks. His office hides his schedule from the public. But apparently the Democratic Underground gets the plans and the tickets. Not being a very good representaive. ———As for Matrin’s attemtp to diminish the question of why won’t the congressfolk and government workers be on “the plan”? The congress has a choice of 21 plans currently. They don’t intend to do anything to us that applies to them, whether it’s little cars, high cap and taxes, or Obama’s healthcare. When Congress puts themselves on Social Security and medicare, we’ll know it’s actually workable. Currently ObamaCare isn’t.By drunken orangetree
August 13, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this
david, I can certainly behave as immaturely as anyone. However, I do have kind of a thing going with reality. So, like congress not being on social security? NOT reality: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.aspBy Davidss2
August 13, 2009 7:35 PM | Link to this
drunk orangatang: do you mean Congress has only social security for their retirement? Cite please!!! I understood they had huge retirement benefits rarely talked about in the media. Do you have other information?By Davidss2
August 13, 2009 10:12 PM | Link to this
Gottlieb says everyone keeps their insurance—but that’s until they change jobs or the company changes insurance in any way, then the people are rolled over to the government plan: they can’t stay on their own insurance.———Also today taxpayer subsidized ACORN people were being bused into Spector’s townhall from Pittburg. They protested in the parking lot in favor of healthcare bill; many probably couldn’t even have read the bills thousands of pages let alone understand it—but they’re for it, grin.By Joe H
August 14, 2009 8:01 AM | Link to this
With people getting upset at these meetings show that there is unrest in the American public’s opinion in their representatives. A great many of these people have never shown up for a cause before and are not used to be talked down to. The American public has not been given the truth, many of these people as starting to demand it and not the Washington rhetoric. Whether health care or not, these legislators are now acting as though the people they represent are stupid and uninformed when just the opposite is true. Most politicians are great debaters and know exactly how to extract anger from an audience. This would seem unproductive unless the main reason is to do just that for the sake of the media clips.By Davidss2
August 14, 2009 8:22 AM | Link to this
The lack of trust in their representatives comes from things that have been done under the guise of “they voted for that when we WON the election.” ——-that’s why we don’t trust them. The other 49% who didn’t vote for them aren’t being represented by many of them.———Pushing through the trillion dollar pork faux stimulus bill for a recession that would start ending in 6-9 more months was just a political money waster. If they wanted to stimulate something like the poorly thought out Cash for Clunkers stimulated a whole lot more and lot faster. BTW, the government’s planning and implementation of Cash for Clunkers shows how healthcare will be implemented for the public (but not for Congressmen’s health care which they already have).By drunken orangetree
August 14, 2009 9:16 AM | Link to this
The cite is in my post. Here it is again: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.aspBy Bill from Brookville
August 14, 2009 10:06 AM | Link to this
Again we hear from the FOX news/ rash lardball lemmings. All make reference to the twisted view of the proposed bill without having actually read the bill but give the glenn beck version. Only a complete and total moron thinks all is right with insurance/health care…oh except for those that watch FOXBy ray
August 14, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
right on bill!By Jan
August 14, 2009 6:24 PM | Link to this
Was the American Revolution civilized? Many people feel that they are fighting for their liberty and for government to stay out of their lives. People are angry at the perceived erosion of rights and freedoms, the glare of the national debt, and the liberal actions of a minority of the people, the elite in Congress. When people become angry and “rude”, maybe it is because of the rude attitude towards their legitimate questions by politicians who answer with half truths,outright lies, and talking points that don’t address the issue. The “sleeping giant” is awake and politicians, Republican and Democrat better change their ways or prepare to leave office.By fed up with tea party
August 14, 2009 8:28 PM | Link to this
I pay an insurance premium every month and get nothing in return. I am one of the many people who are not happy with their insurance. Since the main stream media can’t say it, I will: HR676 HR676 HR676By Neonmoon
August 14, 2009 10:26 PM | Link to this
Hey, Fed up, if you get nothing for the premiums you pay, why not just drop your insurance? Hmmm?By drunken_orangetree
August 14, 2009 11:57 PM | Link to this
Jan, the dems won the election, remember? That means the dems get to set policy, OK? It’s in the constitution.By Ether1
August 15, 2009 4:47 AM | Link to this
To the drunk, that would require that the constitution be followed which clearly hasn’t happened much as of late. While the founders wanted you to be free to pursue your own happiness, they never said that I had to pay for it!By davidss2
August 15, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this
The Dems and White House want everyone arguing over the townhalls instead of discussing the awful content of the thousand pages of a bill most of them haven’t read—just like the pork, faux stimulus bill, congress passed without reading. They kept saying there were no setups to encourage elderly to just be comfortable rather than have expensive treatments—but after Palin said it, THEY SAID IT WOULD BE OUT OF THE BILL. How can it be OUT, if some claim it wasn’t there.————Time is needed to discuss the content of the bill———-Even spender and liar Obama is slowly admitting the cost of the bill will lower service to others. Medicare recipients will absorb 40% of the cuts as the radicals try to cover the cost of paying for health insurance for the millions of illegals they want to cover. ———Somehow I don’t think this kind of bill is what George Washington and the other founding fathers had in mind for the US. Obama, flat Nancy, Reid, Frank, Dodd, et all should be ashamed of what they are trying to do.By drunken orangetree
August 15, 2009 10:30 AM | Link to this
david, here’s the text of the bill: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show Show me where it says what you say it does.By davidss2
August 15, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this
How’s about you just go through and pull out the passages which disprove all the things which have been exposed that are in the bill. It’s no wonder Barry doesn’t want to actually talk about the bill and wanted to get it passed before people could actually study the high cost and reduction in services it will give. Medicare people will absorb 40% of the cost reductions which Barry and the dems pretned will cover all the greatly increased cost of the bill.By Ice Bandit
August 15, 2009 10:33 PM | Link to this
If President Obama, like the fictional banana republic despot in the Woody Allen movie “Bananas,” went on television and proclaimed that henceforth Monday would now become Tuesday and that everyone had to wear their underwear on the outside, Marty Gottleib would certainly write an editorial the following Monday (which would be Tuesday) that Obama’s ruling made perfect sense and any protests were the work of the lazy, crazy or blind. Tell me the issue and the Ice Bandit will tell you how Marty Gottleib feels about it without even reading the editorial. That’s some powerful Kool-Aid……..By In Christ
August 18, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
As always Martin you are showing your liberal bleeding heart hands around your ankle support for that obamanation again .You and obama should get a room and have a threesome with mary mcartyBy In Christ
August 18, 2009 1:43 PM | Link to this
As always Martin you are showing your liberal bleeding heart hands around your ankle support for that obamanation again .You and obama should get a room and have a threesome with mary mcartyBy Rhet Rick
August 19, 2009 5:17 AM | Link to this
Mr Gottlieb’s column was a balanced and reasoned discussion of the issue. The heated responses from the right-wingers here reveal a lot of hatred—for government, for the president, for the so-called liberal press, for people in more difficult circumstances. Sean, Rush, Coulter and their ilk have done a masterful job over the years of turning “liberal” into a bad word. No doubt I’m considered a liberal for viewing Mr G’s column as balanced. But that’s the mindset of dittoheads—when events or facts are reported that don’t fit into their ideological boxes, that’s bias. When the report does fit, that’s balanced.