By Jim from Dayton

March 21, 2010 8:01 AM | Link to this

I completely agree with this editorial. What is needed are better transportation strategies within the greater downtown area, and the future of the automobile must be part of the mix. The return of streetcars is also a laudable long-term goal. But people still have to have something to come to Dayton for (other than theater events and ballgames). That means a return to retail. Dayton has the advantage of central location for the entire area. What is now needs is a coordinated return-to-retail policy that will generate a critical mass of shopping opportunities in the shortest amount of time. In the past, I’ve suggested engaging an outlet mall developer to fill empty storefronts along Main Street and its tributaries. The current strategy of allowing individual enterprises rough it and fail after a couple of years ain’t working. You will never get to critical mass that way. The infrastructure is there; the city services are there; the loitering eyesore has been cleaned up with the new bus terminal. NOW is the time to think seriously about Dayton as a retail destination.

By Free Rides

March 21, 2010 10:56 AM | Link to this

They should try it and see how it works. I don’t think it is such a bad idea. They could accept donations, that way people who want to give can and those who can’t afford the extra will still get to ride somewhere to look for employment, buy necessities, do job research at libraries, etc. Not everyone has a car and some choose to ride the bus even if they do. Hey, he’s the Mayor, not you Scott.

By Free Rides

March 21, 2010 10:56 AM | Link to this

They should try it and see how it works. I don’t think it is such a bad idea. They could accept donations, that way people who want to give can and those who can’t afford the extra will still get to ride somewhere to look for employment, buy necessities, do job research at libraries, etc. Not everyone has a car and some choose to ride the bus even if they do. Hey, he’s the Mayor, not you Scott.

By fortressdayton

March 21, 2010 10:56 AM | Link to this

The segment of the population that is most likely to revitalize Dayton is the smallest- the professional, artistically-inclined, small business owner, etc. Webster Street market is an interesting model of survivability. Look at the clientele and see if the majority of Dayton’s pop. is mirrored there. It is not. The market is great but it is stand-alone. It is not connected to other infrastructure, meaningful housing or mercantile operations. For Dayton to become viable for retail people must wish to come here… and most refuse. The outcries that would follow a clean-up (for there is no other word) would be similar to those heard in Columbus after Short North/Italian Village rehab. That’s the bottom line: Sec. 8 housing, pawn shops, hookers, body oil vendors and professional loiterers don’t entice those individuals most likely to revitalize an area.

By null

March 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Link to this

The idea of free bus service to the destinations that would be serviced by street cars would be a relatively inexpensive way to understand whether there is demand before investing in such large start up costs.

By Sarcasm?

March 21, 2010 5:14 PM | Link to this

Some people have suggested that the Mayor was simply being ‘sarcastic.’ I certainly hope not, because there actually are people who don’t have the extra money even for bus fare. I am sure he must realize that.

By No!

March 21, 2010 7:06 PM | Link to this

Great editorial. If people “don’t have the extra money even for bus fare”, I fail to see why taxpayers, college students, or anyone else should pay for them. The RTA is simply a way for the carless thugs to get downtown. Don’t believe me? - Spend an hour at 3rd and main any afternoon M-F and then get back to me.

By Henry

March 21, 2010 8:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t think free bus service is a good idea overall. There are too many people who will disrepect the property (busses) if they don’t have to pay. Free service in a limited area (from UD to downtown, for example) might be good.

By Davidss2

March 21, 2010 8:58 PM | Link to this

I think it is a great idea. Dayton can use its property tax income, the earnings tax income, and the income from redlight and speed cameras and pay RTA for the missing income. DO NOT expect the county residents to pay for your experiment.

By more skywalks like Cincy

March 21, 2010 10:05 PM | Link to this

I would suggest sky walks connecting all the building together like Cicy did and have better parking.

By more skywalks like Cincy

March 21, 2010 10:05 PM | Link to this

I would suggest sky walks connecting all the building together like Cicy did and have better parking.

By ladybyrd

March 22, 2010 4:23 AM | Link to this

I am a college student, I attend Sinclair. We already have to pay for RTA bus passes, and I don’t think it would be fair if we were forced to pay anything extra! I have a car myself, so I only go downtown to go to school and that’s it! I do have to pay for a bus pass every month for my teenage daughter, but I feel that even the student price offered is still extremely high! So I purchase her bus pass at MY SCHOOL!! And the only time she is downtown is to go to school, and to get home. The RTA system isn’t nothing like it was when I was younger. All those kids hang out down there all day long even with the police being down there! They moved the bus stops around like that was supposed to help make a change and I haven’t seen one yet! NOT ONE CHANGE!!!

By NoFreeRide

March 22, 2010 4:58 AM | Link to this

I tend to agree that offering the RTA loop for free is just asking for trouble. It’s a shame that a few people can ruin the downtown experience for everyone else, but that’s the way it is…

By David Esrati

March 22, 2010 5:21 AM | Link to this

To read more about bike share- and where the idea in Dayton got its start: www.esrati.com/?s=bike+share The cost of auto ownership is the second largest expense in most household budgets. The idea of free busing isn’t all about saving the city- it’s about making Dayton even more affordable. When the cost of living is super low, it makes it possible to be more competitive in global markets. Mayor Leitzell may be a lot brighter than the DDN editorial board gives him credit. All they can see is the balance sheet- he sees the big picture. Also- 25% of Dayton’s population does not own a car. Factor this in- and you start to see how cutting bus expenses could free up money to help move people out of poverty. This is not a simple equation. Also- the cost of collecting and accounting for bus fare may eat up much of the amount of money it actually brings in- did you ever think about that Mr. Elliott?

By David Esrati

March 22, 2010 7:48 AM | Link to this

To read more about bike share- and where the idea in Dayton got its start: www.esrati.com/?s=bike+share The cost of auto ownership is the second largest expense in most household budgets. The idea of free busing isn’t all about saving the city- it’s about making Dayton even more affordable. When the cost of living is super low, it makes it possible to be more competitive in global markets. Mayor Leitzell may be a lot brighter than the DDN editorial board gives him credit. All they can see is the balance sheet- he sees the big picture. Also- 25% of Dayton’s population does not own a car. Factor this in- and you start to see how cutting bus expenses could free up money to help move people out of poverty. This is not a simple equation. Also- the cost of collecting and accounting for bus fare may eat up much of the amount of money it actually brings in- did you ever think about that Mr. Elliott?

By Greg Gibson

March 22, 2010 8:13 AM | Link to this

David Esrati, the voters of Dayton have expressed their actions, never electing you, on your constant suggestions how “Dayton” should be. Please get on with your private life and leave the public forum, you are becoming a nusiance.

By Lynn

March 22, 2010 8:25 AM | Link to this

what about using an officer or two to write tickets on our highways and bring in the money. Its not like people DON’T speed. Utilize 75 and 35 to be income generators, there’s a creative idea!

By Grandma Sue

March 22, 2010 8:30 AM | Link to this

Free bus service - isn’t. The county sales tax almost fully funds this service while those who ride it barely supplement its operation. How about Mayor Leitzell requests those highly paid union bus drivers take a substantial cut in their pay to also support the “ride free” concept? The RTA has come back to the “money well” time and time again to fund their mismanagement - such as moving Greyhound WAY out to the NW hub - so now the sales tax funds both private (stock held) and public transportation. This “ride free” concept is outrageous!

By David (not Esrati)

March 22, 2010 9:45 AM | Link to this

“Please get on with your private life and leave the public forum” Hmm, Greg, who elected you? Must one hold elected office to post a comment on a DDN forum? What office do you hold?

By Gregg Sucks

March 22, 2010 10:38 AM | Link to this

Yeah Greg, why don’t you take on Esrati’s ideas instead of just wholesale personally attacking him?

By HandUpNotOut

March 22, 2010 10:42 AM | Link to this

It’s time for new thinking and trying new ideas. That’s what the people wanted when they elected the Mayor and that is apparently what he intends to do. Old ways of thinking are not working so well for most of us. I hope he gives this a chance. It says a lot about the ‘atmosphere’ in Dayton to try it. People don’t want to locate to a place that isn’t friendly enough to even take care of its own. Try it and may the force be with you.

By David Esrati

March 22, 2010 10:52 AM | Link to this

At least Greg Gibson signed his entire name. Kudos for that. Of course, he hasn’t run for office- or proposed any ideas of his own, so we’re back at square one. I’m all for all kinds of discussion and debate about new solutions to our problems. Handing tax $ over to private companies hasn’t been working. The bike share program is something for everyone- and could be a major advertising vehicle for a sponsor. check out the info here: http://www.esrati.com/?s=bike+share And sorry for the double post above.

By Tony

March 22, 2010 11:29 AM | Link to this

ever tried leaving a locked bike unattended downtown? It will be gone within an hour. My son locked his bike to a 4 inch diameter tree and thieves broke the tree to take the bike.

By chiefwino

March 22, 2010 11:49 AM | Link to this

I believe we are not going to see a substantial change until the politicians and governments begin working with a regional mind set. A true region transit plan integrating the C3 rail, busses, and light rail/street cars throughout the Miami Valley (Montgomery, Greene, Miami, Clark, Butler, Warren, etc.) would be a great help. We need to look at development, jobs, education, etc across city and county borders not in an adversarial “us vs. them” attitude.

By alw

March 22, 2010 12:01 PM | Link to this

Is this like the deal with the converter boxes, it was told that every one needed to get one, but did they think about what do we do when the converter box goes out, did you know they no longer sell them in the store, any suggestion on how to replace my converter box?

By alw

March 22, 2010 12:02 PM | Link to this

Is this like the deal with the converter boxes, it was told that every one needed to get one, but did they think about what do we do when the converter box goes out, did you know they no longer sell them in the store, any suggestion on how to replace my converter box?

By alw

March 22, 2010 12:04 PM | Link to this

Is this like the deal with the converter boxes, it was told that every one needed to get one, but did they think about what do we do when the converter box goes out, did you know they no longer sell them in the store, any suggestion on how to replace my converter box?

By Cheryl

March 22, 2010 1:02 PM | Link to this

The only free bus ride should be to get out of Dayton. In order to get business back in Dayton, they need to get rid of the old nasty buildings and built something nice. Then they need to get rid of the unemployed (by choice), free loaders, drug dealers, prostitutes, and creeps. Then businesses may come back. As it stands right now, if my company moved downtown, I would quit.

By nyc

March 22, 2010 1:35 PM | Link to this

how come this city doesnt have bike lanes…if you are 12 or older…you are required to ride in the street..(even though there is virtually no foot traffic in this city)..and yet there are no bike lanes…this is an azzbackward hillbillie town…

By painfultruth

March 22, 2010 2:15 PM | Link to this

No magic “free bus rides”, streetcars or free bikes are going to revive Dayton. None of these are going to attract business. Clean neighborhoods, safe streets and good schools attract people and businesses. Unfortunately, none of the above exist in Dayton. Dayton is dead, gone and finished, and all this “feel good” talk is worthless. Wht do you think people and businesses are flocking to the I-75 corridor? The blue-collar manufacturing plants are HISTORY, and never coming back to the city. Even the DDN moved its printing plant to Franklin because “we couldn’t find a suitable location” in the city. Their words, not mine. Dayton doesn’t need “new ideas” or “thinking out of the box”, IT NEEDS JOBS, and there is NOTHING that would entice ANY company to locate within city limits. (Other than rampant crime, lousy schools and rotting neighborhoods)!

By Sister

March 22, 2010 5:22 PM | Link to this

C’mon… if you can’t afford bus fare, you can’t afford Dayton. My brother, blind, limited income, pays to ride to work & back & everywhere else… so should everybody else.

By V

March 22, 2010 8:02 PM | Link to this

Decreasing the bus fare will only encourage more thugs and other negative images downtown. Dayton needs to clean up its image! We need more companies and businesses downtown. Remember over 30 years ago when we had Reynolds & Reynolds, Mead, Rike’s, Sears, Elder-Beerman and many other retail and commercial companies downtown? Dayton was once known as the “Gem City”, but not anymore! Currently we see only a few working class citizens downtown and unfortunately a lot of thugs standing around by the bus stops and street corners. If we are going to attract any positive new growth downtown, we must first remove the negative element(i.e. drug dealers, homeless, prostitutes, etc.) from downtown. We need to re-make the city for the working class, provide people a place to work, eat, shop and spend their leisure time without worrying about their safety.

By IT'S GREAT IN DAYTON!!

March 24, 2010 8:50 PM | Link to this

Bus rides won’t fix this:—————————-FROM DDN “City officials say the lack of economic activity in the region is busting Dayton’s budget. The Dayton region’s employment base has been shrinking for almost a decade. Employment in December 2009 was down 16 percent or almost 70,000 jobs from the same period in 2000. Last year marked the 9th consecutive year of job losses in the region and the lowest level of employment since the mid-1980s, according to city records.—————— That decline was painfully evident in Dayton in 2009 when revenues fell by $12.2 million or about 7 percent below the original forecast. ……left the city with a $1.9 million unplanned budget shortfall. For the first time in a decade, the city had to dip into its budget reserve to balance its books at year end.

By jason liff aka motoscooto

March 28, 2010 11:03 AM | Link to this

I voted with my money and opened a scooter store on Wayne Avenue. It took over a year to get through the zoning and permitting process . From experience I can report that, but for a few people, the entire system is riddled with a mentality of no , no, no . -“You cannot do this or that & One cannot change the use of a derelict building on Brown Street . No you cannot put your scooter store in The Oregon “, even though a 5000 sf space exists that no one wants to buy or rent. Why do people avoid Dayton ? Demographics of course. In the main there is a systemic business unfriendly all pervasive atmosphere coupled with a perception of potential violence . We need to encourage small business by discouraging and truncating governments strangle hold on new business ! The city government has rooms full of employees who read chapter and verse from the , THE BOOK OF NO . As an early visitor to the NYC SOHO & Tribeca districts in 1970 ,I can tell you these now model districts did not get started by a pervasive and draconian implementing of every minute policy practice and procedure . Like all such areas in the world they start by a few young , artistic, counterculture oriented people looking for cheaper spaces to work and play with some character. Why don’t we finish up tenanting the Oregon district and loosening the regs that stand in the way ? A few community activist in Oregon that were urban pioneers now block changes to completing 5th Street . How about enforcing the speed limit on Wayne avenue ? How about enforcing anti-littering laws . My sidewalk and lot are littered by 100’s of cigarette butts and candy pop cans . How about an ombudsman process that guarantees answers to all zoning and permitting issues in seven days ? National retail tenants are not coming back so go after the small entrepreneurs, the new Americans that are not afraid of hard work and tough clientele and the arts and crafts communities . The RTA has wasted a lot of money on their edifice complex, even so we do not need free busing of more thugs and scary types. What Dayton does have is cheap rent , cheap buildings ,a vibrant artistic community and historic housing stock that people would cry for in most cities.Artists , and musicians especially can find cheap rent at Front Street —We need more ! Finish something already- Try to fill every building on Wayne and Fifth and Brown and Warren. Oh yes bicycle lanes would be great for scooters mopeds and bicycles and any separation from SUV speeders that crowd others while talking on their phones. Untangle the choke holds of the 3 or 4 structures that throttle all but what they want ! Government is the problem—the entrenched versus the new —Until resolved the buildings will stay boarded up and the retail community will stay away . Call me ! Jason Liff Moto Scooto 1400 Wayne

By jason liff aka motoscooto

March 28, 2010 4:30 PM | Link to this

Ranting further on obstructionism. I brokered several Walgreens including Wayne and Wyoming thus I know the complexities of a Kroger deal and how developers suck every last bit they can before starting anything.The city put out high prices and wasted option money and still no cigar . I have tried to get the city to let me use the laundromat for my biz but they are still planning on the big deal- -Please if the big guys wanted the site they would go for it . I have tried to utilize the building next to the old Halal market but the city has so many restrictions that the owner just threw up his hands ! The City of Kettering gave me preliminary zoning readings within two days of asking . Kettering actually wanted my business whereas Dayton asked me to spend and spend before evaluating . The one stop shop should be dismantled and the entire planning function dismantled —whats to plan —whats to evaluate? Ask people that have money to spend what they want to do and help them . First people next stores —Any good demographer or commercial broker can cross reference the possible and correlate what can be made to happen . Help populate the city with Neo hipsters , youth & immigrants - artists - not bus stop types and over cafeinated,cigarette smoking fatsos. Think about it the average person in my neighborhood off Wayne spends around $8.00 a day on cigarettes and another $4.oo on energy drinks— They are fat slovenly & pre diabetic . Maybe the city should take an interest in educating the people on health matters . Dayton should waive all the ordinances except fire hazards & help to blow out some walls and let people step up and finish things themselves. We need more hard working immigrants like the guys that run the garage at 1402 Wayne, the Hallal people , the 5th Street Deli etc . We should encourage immigrants to come to Dayton to boost the inner city — Dayton needs fresh blood— The old Germans , Hungarians , Greeks , Jews , Poles and Slovaks have all moved to the burbs. Rikes ( an old German company)is gone ! Traxlers is gone , Beermans is gone, the Zavakos bowing alleys are gone. Kiss any one on both cheeks that wants to do anything here . You need a cordon sanitaire around any venues or places that attract people to the center . We need foot patrols, bike patrols scooter patrols - -We need cops that are civil ! we need the right to break up any groups of 3 or more . The Dublin Pub and Cocos have prospered. The Wine Bar relocated after a successful start that was blocked by a lack of parking at the Cannery. The city should make a deal with Montgomery paper to use their lot at night . Give up on the meta and mega and focus on the micro. Fine people who drop cigarettes on the street $25 bucks -What filth the perpetrators foist on the rest of us ! Ask anyone that goes to Germany what they remember and they speak of the cleanliness . There are ten usable buildings on Wayne avenue that need waivers and proactive decisions and seed money. At least 3 or 4 in Oregon. Twenty five years and holding !! Democracy is not working ! Priority boards , neighborhood blocking associations .and current zoning regs need to be stopped, scrapped and recognized for what they are , The accretion of limiting regs that only benefit the bureaucrats You want results you need leaders not pension watchers. Ombudsman for every situation Accountability at every council meeting Try open zoning —it worked for Houston ! This City needs to take responsibility and should have to publish every two weeks a disposition report on new business inquiries and what they have done to further . The new mayor has great ideas but implementation rests with shaming the entrenched to act . I wish I had a gig like so many of the city types . Try your own small business in Dayton. Try lifting something from scratch 60+ hours per week. Stop standing on the feet of potential business ! Chink it down and clean it up a block at a time! JASON LIFF a 65 plus year old guy trying something new !! buy my scooters and drive for $5.oo a week.

By bobby

March 28, 2010 6:59 PM | Link to this

Jason, Many agree with you. As an entrepreneur, you have invested time and money “On the come” many times. Some deals make money, others do not. Sometimes you have to rethink things and acknowedge that you missed the market, demand isn’t there or a banker doesn’t share your vision. This is the nature of doing deals. We take on risk and are prepared to have a plan B or C or D,if necessary….The economic and planning department employees are the opposite. These people select government work because they are NOT risk takers and are rule followers. I have often wondered why the city doesn’t pay economic development people a draw against commissions paid on success.. Why continue to have the same people working for thirty years that have so little to show for their work or receive the same paycheck whether they are successful or not….. The money wasted at Wayne and Wyoming and Ballpark Village would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. When the City paid Requarth Lumber the last option money, everyone in town knew the deal was dead…EXCEPT the bureaucrats.

By David Esrati

March 29, 2010 7:03 AM | Link to this

I’ve picked up some of the comments on this editorial in a discussion of the frustrations of Dayton business owners. http://esrati.com/the-frustration-of-a-dayton-small-business-owner/4681/ Bobby is right- how much money was squandered on both Kroger and “ballpark village”- and what could it have provided in the way of service to taxpayers instead of corporate welfare?

By MARY

April 16, 2010 7:23 PM | Link to this

I agree with gradual reduction of bus fare for riders on the RTA,and rides should be free for volunteers working in Dayton.