By Max

July 16, 2010 8:12 PM | Link to this

Until you decide, definitively, when a conceived ‘thing’ becomes human, I’ll take my dog, cat, parrot, or politician on the grill with appropriate seasonings. Animal rights? This is the downfall of a civilization based upon agriculture and animal husbandry. There’s a reason for the food chain, gentlemen, and kindness isn’t an element. So, please enjoy your steak coming from the feedlots of Omaha. So, for those of us so stupid to think otherwise, are all animals - including those feedlot critters who are the source of your steak - included in this or just the annoying poodles better dressed and accessorized than their owners. GIMME a )(@$Y break.

By Max

July 16, 2010 8:59 PM | Link to this

Upon further review, your crap is fathoms below the Equal Rights Amendement for women and you dare speak of ‘animal rights?’ For some, sheep are the only alternative to their own personal deficits. Ok, DDN, you got the desired response. How about it Scott. care to weigh in?

By Ted Nugent

July 17, 2010 7:18 AM | Link to this

You can’t grill it till you kill it!

By really

July 17, 2010 1:26 PM | Link to this

Spank me in my leather chaps and that is a good time. Spank my dog in his leather chaps and that is a felony? Paul…why? LOL

By Rita

July 17, 2010 1:56 PM | Link to this

The animals I like. It is Paul Lenard that I don’t. What a joke. Pet detective gets a lawyer for his cat with his goldfish waiting in the outer office waiting for his case to be heard.

By Why didn't I think of this?

July 17, 2010 2:03 PM | Link to this

Here is an idea: Raise Taxes: We all know if he wrote it it must be true. I mean he was a Lt Governor! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx “Raise the license fee for dogs to cover all necessary government regulation of the pet industry. Most dog owners would gladly support this if they could be sure that the fees would go toward animal welfare.” Right. Good plan. To cover all the cost of the Government regulation. Such a Republican idea.

By Rick

July 18, 2010 6:31 PM | Link to this

Leonard is an idiot. He refuses to recognize that time has passed him by.

By harddaysnight

July 19, 2010 11:20 AM | Link to this

What this author seems to forget, is there is a HUGE difference between animal rights and animal welfare. There is also a HUGE diffference between PeTA, The HUmane Society of The US and The SPCA or your local humane society. Google and do your homework before you vote people and you’ll find out exactly who the real sheep in wolves clothing really is.

By daveb

July 19, 2010 1:58 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know what the purpose of this “livestock care standards board” is going to be now, besides costing tax money? This is why we need to STOP approving all these state constitution amendements, it’s there forever for no reason.

By Mike R

July 19, 2010 4:36 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard from people that some of the profs at Wright State, outside the College of Business, are more than a little kooky—This explains it! So, Wright State gets a tuition increase for a kook like this to teach “Animal Law?” WTF? Wright State doesn’t even have a Law School so why the heck are taxpayers paying this guy/gal to teach Animal Law?

By Tree Smith

July 19, 2010 7:00 PM | Link to this

Mr. Leonard makes excellent points and suggestions and the fight for animal welfare is far from over. What matters now is accountability. The people, like the ones posting comments here, who are against the humane treatment of animals are dinosaurs. The tide is changing, and if they want to be dragged kicking and screaming into a more humane, enlightened world then that’s their problem because it will happen, even in a state as un-progressive as Ohio.

By AmyK1980

July 19, 2010 7:11 PM | Link to this

What is wrong with most of the people posting here? These comments show exactly why Ohio is so backwards on basic animal protection. Animal abuse is a felony is 41 states but not Ohio. Most people do believe in treating animals humanely, even animals destined to become food. And anyone who thinks animals have more rights than people, just look at what happened on Conklin Farm. These animals suffered horrendous abuse. If they were children, they would have been taken out of the situation immediately. Instead, they are still on the farm. There are numerous other examples. Visit the Buckeye Dog Auction or the exotic animal auction. Go to the Conservators Center in North Carolina, which has 23 lions and tigers rescued from L and L Exotics in Ohio only after it racked up 953 violations of the Animal Welare Act. Just try to get into a CAFO like Ohio Fresh Eggs to see what kind of conditions the hens live in. Animal welfare in this state is a joke, but at least now that has been laid bare for everyone else in the country to see. It’s time Ohio law regarding animals caught up with laws in most other states.

By Pam

July 19, 2010 8:20 PM | Link to this

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi The anti-animal comments in reaction to this article are proof that progress in this country will be an uphill battle.

By Mike R

July 19, 2010 8:23 PM | Link to this

For every example you gave I can give you hundreds of examples where people go above and beyond to show their love and affection for animals. All the farmers I know treat their animals well. So the answer is to stop “animal auctions” in the State, huh? How about all the good that comes from the Sale of Champions at the Ohio State Fair? Hundreds of thousdands of dollars are raised for 4-H and other great organizations. Or, as Amy and Tree think, those young kids are backwards too…Amy and Tree need to go back and read these posts, and comprehend these posts. Nobody is against the humane treatment of animals, they’re opining their sentiment towards Leonard.

By Mike R

July 19, 2010 8:33 PM | Link to this

That’s pure fabrication on your part, Pam. There’s not one anti-animal post related to this editorial. Just some attempts at humor—you need to grow up and recognize what sarcasim is.

By Luke

July 19, 2010 8:53 PM | Link to this

Wow! Article was great but if the comments are indicative of the back-asswards mentality of Ohio citizens, I suggest all animals simply be removed from the state for their own protection. Of course, I know that’s not really the case as I know many wonderful Ohioans who believe in the RIGHT of animals to be treated humanely, period. Those in agribusiness who resist these regulations and, in general, the animal welfare movement better go back to school and find a new career. The tide is changing and people are becoming aware of what goes on and you can get with the program or be left behind.

By Mike R

July 19, 2010 9:43 PM | Link to this

Startin’ to look like Leonard gave his animal law class an assignment…I wonder if it’s the Summer “B” session or the Summer “C” session he assigned to come onto the DDN editorial page to support him. Maybe both…he needs the help. Luke, you are naïve…Humans have rights too, and are protected by laws, and crimes still occur against humanity. Would you suggest all humans or babies be removed from Dayton since its crime rate is twice that of the national average?? Or, is that not progressive enough for you? Are you threatening the the Farmer who doesn’t conform to your view of the world? It sure read that way. Interestingly, the posts from Luke and Tree Smith are anti-corporate agribusiness and a bit threatening. Hmmm…same person trying to get twice the extra credit from Mr. Leonard??

By AmyK1980

July 20, 2010 12:07 AM | Link to this

Mike R, none of us that I know of are in Mr. Leonard’s class. We just liked his editorial and object to the caveman attitude of so many Ohioans toward animals. I don’t doubt that many farmers take good care of their animals, but many do not, and there are many cases of cruelty, and Ohio’s laws are so anemic that these people are not punished. This has to change, and as Ohioans wake up to the fact that they have the worst laws for animals in the nation, it will change — whether people like you like it or not.

By AmyK1980

July 20, 2010 12:07 AM | Link to this

Mike R, none of us that I know of are in Mr. Leonard’s class. We just liked his editorial and object to the caveman attitude of so many Ohioans toward animals. I don’t doubt that many farmers take good care of their animals, but many do not, and there are many cases of cruelty, and Ohio’s laws are so anemic that these people are not punished. This has to change, and as Ohioans wake up to the fact that they have the worst laws for animals in the nation, it will change — whether people like you like it or not.

By AmyK1980

July 20, 2010 12:08 AM | Link to this

Mike R, none of us that I know of are in Mr. Leonard’s class. We just liked his editorial and object to the caveman attitude of so many Ohioans toward animals. I don’t doubt that many farmers take good care of their animals, but many do not, and there are many cases of cruelty, and Ohio’s laws are so anemic that these people are not punished. This has to change, and as Ohioans wake up to the fact that they have the worst laws for animals in the nation, it will change — whether people like you like it or not.

By Mike R

July 20, 2010 1:38 AM | Link to this

So, who is “us” Amy? You know Tree Smith, Luke, Pam. Are you all members of Peta? The radical Animal Liberation Front? SHAC? Y’all write with the same tenor…Words in your first sentences of “dinosaurs,” “cavemen,” “…backward,” then you all morph into how it will “change” whether people like it or not…all in sort of a threatening manner. It’s all out of the same play book-So, which group do you guys belong to?

By Rich

July 20, 2010 8:36 AM | Link to this

I am shocked at some of the a*s-backwards hillbilly comments here. Animals can suffer and feel pain. We can still raise animals for food without all the abuse and cruelty to these innocent creatures. Ohio has among the weakest laws in the country to protect farm animals. It is considered “standard practice” to kick animals who are too injured to walk, to throw living chickens into a grinder, and to leave sick animals on a pile to suffocate to death. This is totally unacceptable in a so-called civilized society. Wake up and educate yourselves about factory farming instead of going around saying, “I dun be a great Amurican” just because you like to eat $2 bacon cheeseburgers. No wonder Ohio has the second-highest obesity rates among northern states.

By Mike R

July 20, 2010 9:25 AM | Link to this

Rich, maybe it’s “standard Practice” in your book to kick injured animals, but it’s not the standard for farmers. You need to stop drinking the indoctrination Kool-Aid of intolerance towards farmers.

By Rich

July 20, 2010 9:41 AM | Link to this

Mike, I’m not talking about all farmers. I know several farmers who are good people and care for their animals. I am referring only to industrialized factory farms.

By suzy

July 20, 2010 9:42 AM | Link to this

Great article. The attacks on very reasonable proposals put forth by the author is astonishing. That these people have a problem with giving animals more protection than the sofa in their living room speaks volumes about their troglodyte mentality.

By Brandon L

July 20, 2010 10:10 AM | Link to this

Great article, Mr. Leonard. Your suggestions are very reasonable and would help elevate Ohio’s animal welfare standards to be on par with the rest of the country. It’s a shame that animal abuse is still so rampant (and more or less condoned) here in Ohio.

By Hey Suzy

July 20, 2010 10:30 AM | Link to this

“troglodyte mentality” Suzy I will have to drag my knuckles to the dictionary and look that one up.

By Clander

July 20, 2010 4:33 PM | Link to this

@MikeR Maybe if you took a class in animal law you’d understand why saying: “For every example you gave I can give you hundreds of examples where people go above and beyond to show their love and affection for animals.” in this conversation is laughable. The same argument can be used against speeding limits. “For every person who breaks the speed limit I can show you hundreds who don’t.” And yet, to conclude that therefore we should not have speed limits or we should not enforce them, or lower them if they prove insufficient to guarantee safety, would be fatuous. We precisely need to have laws and regulations for the asshats who are lack decency. And we know that Ohio is filled with asshats who abuse animals, not a month goes by without another one getting caught on film. Nothing that Leonard is advocating here is outside of the mainstream of animal welfare legislation, (OK #4 may be a bit on the margins of the mainstream in this country but not elsewhere in the civilized world) again if you took a class from him you might have a better sense of what the legal and regulatory environment in this and other country looks like. Let’s bring the state up to the level of the rest of the civilized world, even if big business doesn’t want it.

By christa reagan

July 20, 2010 9:19 PM | Link to this

Ted Strickland’s willingness to go along with a Jesse Jackson style shakedown by HSUS hustler Wayne Pacelle, should (and may) cost him reelection in November. Countless people are aware of the true nature of the HSUS vs. the carefully crafted public image. We do not applaud Gov. Strickland’s validation of an organization that was just awarded a D grade by the American Institute of Philanthropy; that lies about its accomplishments, programs, fundraising and lobbying expenses; and that was investigated for Katrina fraud by the Louisiana Attorney General. In 2009, HSUS lost all twelve members of its Emergency Response Team. They quit rather than follow HSUS’s protocols, its “cowboy ways” - impersonating police officers, violating people’s legal rights, stealing credit for the rescues of other groups. (Two ex-team members, Randy Graves and Allen Schwartz, spoke out in media interviews). Is Ted Strickland proud that happy he caved in to the pressure tactics of an organization that employs convicted Animal Liberation Front felon J.P. Goodwin? That has been harshly criticized for its extremism and heavy-handed tactics by Temple Grandin? Condemned by no-kill animal sheltering leader Nathan Winograd for betrayal and deceit? There are many reputable and honest animal welfare groups for future Governor Kasich (and the highly qualified Livestock Care Board) to work with. HSUS has no business using money fleeced from unsuspecting animal lovers to buy power in Ohio.

By BADKarma

July 20, 2010 9:26 PM | Link to this

OOOOOOOO… EVIL AGRI-BUSINESS (BOOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA!!!). For gods’ sakes, grow up, you infantile, A-R kool-ade-guzzling morons. If farmers don’t treat their animals well, they can’t make a profit from them. PERIOD. All of you are proof positive of how well the Jihadist Nazis of the A-R movement have succeeded in convincing “lifestyles of the terminally stupid and pureile” that animal abuse is the “industry standard”, rather than a rare deviation which the “industry” itself punishes severely.

By alice in LALA land

July 20, 2010 9:29 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope your next governor has a spine…HSUS is a terrorist organization.. and the “animal legal defense fund” is not too much further behind.. animal rights.. before HUMAN rights.. that is their mantra.. gee i do wish some of them would take a nice walk through the jungle.. unarmed of course.. just Ar and “nature”.. guess who would come out on the other side??

By Mike R

July 20, 2010 9:50 PM | Link to this

“We precisely need to have laws and regulations for the asshats who are lack(ing) decency.” That’s a very slippery slope, Clander. Who are you to monitor and police morals? You obviously feel you are morally superior to those you define of lacking decency. You and your group’s definition of decency is that of others conforming to your standards. Germany tried that…in the 1930’s. It didn’t work out too well for them. Obviously you and your cronies posting here are disciples of Leonard. Does he preach, oops, I mean teach that acts of vandalism are acceptable when it comes to establishing animal rights??

By REG

July 20, 2010 10:55 PM | Link to this

heY MIKE ARE YOU ANTI OR SOMETHING? i LOVE T-BONE IT’S MY FAVORATE FOOD.

By cowboy

July 20, 2010 11:10 PM | Link to this

you like your meat pink in the middle, reg, or do you just like the bone?

By REGAN Hnull

July 20, 2010 11:25 PM | Link to this

i THINK [NOW JUST MY THOUGHTS] THAT MOST AR GROUPS ARE FASCISTS AND ONE GROUP INPRETICULAR THEY SEEM TO HAVE A NAZI FLAVER ABOUT THEM .DON’T NOW? tHINK ABOUT IT!

By Rita S

July 21, 2010 12:20 AM | Link to this

Well this is Ohio, home of the uneducated or do not want to be! Eat your steak Beat your dogs & cats, and think only your heart beats, you know best. I have seen what CAFOS do to ME for one, my lakes and not being able to go outside to breathe the fresh air and I was here first. I will stick with what I KNOW and you can have to live or not with your self, idiots or do I say the R word REPUBLICAN know it all people. You make me sick with your small minds. Not worth typing about you GET A LIFE PEOPLE.

By nregull

July 21, 2010 12:40 AM | Link to this

RITA call me a idiot if you want, it does’nt hurt my fillings i’m proud to announse i’m a republican and down with hsus!!!

By Tom in NC

July 21, 2010 9:36 AM | Link to this

“Support enactment of a law that exists today only in North Carolina that allows private animal-advocacy groups to bring a criminal prosecution against animal abusers and obtain custody of abused or neglected animals. In many counties and cities, police and prosecutors cannot “be bothered” with animal abuse cases.” Interesting how the HSUS in NC said that we don’t have sufficient laws to regulate so-called “puppy mills.” Seems they contradict themselves. Be warned, Ohio!

By Joe

July 21, 2010 9:55 AM | Link to this

Equal Rights should be for plants too. What about them? They show the will to live too. They are planted so close in a field, they can not stretch their arms and not touch another plant. Wheat harvest is decapitation by the thousands, and no seditive. Show me a sad chicken and I’ll show you a happy one.

By suzy

July 21, 2010 9:55 AM | Link to this

@nregull, I knew you were a repug the minute you opened your mouth. You really didn’t have to tell us. @Christa Regan Spewage straight from the pages of that corporate sponsored front group CCF/Humanewatch. Repeating the same old lies over and over won’t make them true. I’m sure the Ohio Livestock Board is highly qualified to squash any meaningful reform. It was created to do just that.

By clander

July 21, 2010 10:29 AM | Link to this

@MikeR To argue against regulation of animal welfare by claiming that it is a slippery slope is simply fallacious. We call it the “fallacy of the slippery slope for a reason.” Unless you can show that a law prohibiting or limiting x is more likely to produce a law limiting or prohibiting x+1 and then x+n, the argument fails. If it succeeded we would not have any laws or regulations whatsoever. I am not the one who is legislating how we treat animals, the government is. So your attempt to cast me as imposing my moral beliefs on others fails as well. I think you must have a very strange understanding of government and the law for these arguments to seem plausible to you. Your attempt to argue that people who disagree with your poorly defended beliefs are “cronies” of Leonard is what we call an “ad hominem” fallacy. Even if it were true (and I had never heard of the guy prior to reading this column), it would not undermine the cogency of the views and arguments that are being advanced. Your arguments, however, are textbook logical fallacies.

By Brandon L

July 21, 2010 10:38 AM | Link to this

I’m a fairly neutral observer but one thing I’ve learned from these comments is that the pro-animal people appear to be well-educated on the issues, whereas the anti-animal folks sound like a bunch of ignorant, obnoxious, loud-mouthed fools.

By Mike R

July 21, 2010 1:51 PM | Link to this

For a wannabe lawyer, Clander, or should I refer to you as Perry Mason? Opps, you don’t know who the former mayor of Dayton (Leonard) is so you probably don’t know about Perry Mason either. Maybe future ambulance chaser is more fitting. Anyhow, you are the one who wrote this yesterday afternoon: “We precisely need to have laws and regulations for the asshats who are lack(ing) decency.” You need to go back and read my post again—this time you and Brandon need to comprehend what is written. I wrote nothing about animal laws or regulations. You expressed an opinion that Morals should be legislated, thus monitored and policed. That is a very dangerous and slippery slope. You can try to rationalize otherwise until you are blue in the face, but you’ll be ignoring the obvious. There are two countries in the world with a Moral/Deceny Police Force—Saudi Arabia and Iran. In those countries people that violate deceny laws disappear in the middle of the night—sometimes forever. You can try to spin it howevever you want, but you wrote what you wrote—and that is a very dangerous and slippery slope.

By christa regan

July 21, 2010 2:18 PM | Link to this

Suzy: It is clear that the “spewage”found in my first posting comes straight from Nathan Winograd’s blogs, articles and books; Temple Grandin’s new book; Katrina rescuers/ the Louisiana AG report; three disgusted former members of HSUS’s Emergency Team (listen to two of them on Carroll Cox’s radio show); Best Friends’ criticsm of HSUS’ Katrina fundraising, Vick scam and Wilkes County massacre; the many online rantings of J.P. Goodwin, ie “ALF is on the Warpath” and others and Goodwin’s 2009 letter defending the Wilkes County Massacre. I was a member of HSUS in the 90’s and started my research on HSUS ten years ago in response to their deceptive and predatory fundraising tactics and their arrogant response to my questions about it. I have a background in fundraising and have subscribed to the AIP Charity Rating Guide since 2001. HumaneWatch IS brilliantly written, funny and popular for many a reasons. It IS a big threat to HSUS’s corrupt empire but to imply that they are the major critics is desperate and wishful thinking. I am a member of more than 10 animal charities, including the Humane Farming Association. I care about animals and for that reason, despise Wayne Pacelle, CFO G. Thomas Waite III, disgraced ex-CEO Paul Irwin, sleazy HSUS Chief Counsel Roger Kindler and the rest of the Humane Society hucksters.

By Clander

July 21, 2010 5:48 PM | Link to this

@MikeR Your poor defense of your opinions does not get better with more “ad hominems.” The regulation of animal use does not make us into a moral-police state. Almost all nations in the civilized world regulate what can be done to animals. It is a “straw man” (yep another one of those pesky logical fallacies) to claim that Leonard is trying to legislate morality, rather than advancing mainstream, moderate (arguably excepting his fourth point), animal regulation and legislation. If you think that any law that aims to stop people from doing “wrong” or “harm” is legislating morality, then you throw out the majority of our legal system. This is a “radical” view, not what Leonard is proposing, nor what I said the purpose of laws is, which is to disincentivize or stop certain forms of harmful behavior that people don’t otherwise have the decency to avoid—you know, like theft, and murder, and animal abuse.

By Mike R

July 21, 2010 6:52 PM | Link to this

Wow! You need to comprehend what I have written— And what you have Written! I wrote in response to your comment of, “We precisely need to have laws and regulations for the a******s who are lacking decency.” That sentence followed a rambling sentence about speeders and enforcing speed limits. Ya following me so far? I didn’t write that Leonard is trying to legislate morality—I asked what gives you and your group the right to define what is decent and morally acceptable. Hence, what is illegal in your group’s view when it comes to decency. For example, a HSUS man who hasn’t bathed in weeks walks into Dorthy Lane Market wearing a dirty and tattered wife beater shirt. As he’s walking down the aisle he’s farting, picking his nose and handling pre-packaged food before putting it back on the shelf. Would that fall into your “a-hole’s lacking decency” category?? For many people that would embody the spirit of your ideology. So, since you set the bar, should that man be arrested? Just because the are a-holes lacking deceny doesn’t mean we should setup laws and legislation and put these people behind bars while throwing away the keys. It’s a slippery slope…That you want to go down.

By clander

July 21, 2010 9:07 PM | Link to this

I think you interpreted what I said about decency in the wrong sense. I meant that if people don’t have the “decency” not to do things that are harmful and wrong, then we typically pass laws criminalizing this behavior. This is the purpose of much of our legal code. It is not a slippery slope, we have plenty of ways of deciding what is good law and what is bad law. There is no slippery slope here. If no one wanted to kill other people we presumably would not need to have a law about it. But, having a law about it does not cause some slippery slope to occur that makes us become Iran. Leonard’s proposal are mainstream moderate animal welfare regulations. There is nothing radical here and again no slippery slope and claiming there is, is a textbook example of a fallacy. The examples under discussion are not cases of “offense” (which would fit your example of a smelly man), but examples of harms. Laws exist (in part) to prevent people from harming. We typically legislate when people are engaged in practices that harm, or “don’t have the decency” not to harm. Offense is different than harm, it is a lot easier to justify laws that proscribe harms than it is offense (though we have plenty of the latter on the books as well, for example flag-burning laws are closer to offense than harms). Again, we’re speaking about laws that proscribe practices that harm, not just offend, K?

By Got to wonder sometimes

July 22, 2010 12:22 PM | Link to this

I used the writer of this editorial as a lawyer for myself. Although limited two legs (not four) and having a thumb separates me from many of our other earth creatures, I sometimes wonder if they have the advocate who can advance their cause most effectively.