DAYTON — The future of downtown Dayton is a popular topic of conversation.

But when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is, few have done more than Dr. Benjamin Schuster, who, with his wife Marian, spearheaded the fundraising for the performing arts center that bears their name, then followed that by relocating their home there.

From his perch atop Performance Place, Dr. Schuster not only has a bird's-eye view of the city, his three years living downtown have given him a unique perspective on the challenges the central city faces.

Among his views:

• We have too many abandoned and dilapidated structures downtown. We need to rebuild.

• Civic and governmental leadership has been lethargic in responding to the city's needs.

• Our model of government in Dayton no longer works. We should look at progressive cities, such as Louisville, for solutions that incorporate more regional cooperation.

Yet Dr. Schuster, who has committed his fortune and homestead to the city, remains optimistic about the future.

This week, at the newspaper's request, Dr. Schuster agreed to be interviewed on his opinions about downtown. In the accompanying questions and answers, excerpted from that conversation, he offers his diagnosis of Dayton's problems and his prescription for solving them.

You led the fundraising for the city's new performing arts center with an $8 million gift. The Schuster Center represents the single biggest investment in downtown in recent years. What motivated you to do that?

I think it was an opportunity that we seized. Seize the day, seize the moment. I saw it as an opportunity to help in the revitalization of downtown. I had another motive. I thought we needed to lift the cultural milieu, the cultural life of the community, because I think when you do that, you elevate the tone and the cachet and the motivation of the city if you elevate the cultural life. I thought, gee, this is a wonderful opportunity which very few people get, and so that's why we grasped the moment.

Then you followed that with a further commitment by moving your residence there.

I thought: Wouldn't it be wonderful to move to Dayton to the Performance Place and show people that it's all right to live downtown — it might be very nice — so we decided to do that, to move and to demonstrate to the people that we weren't only investing in downtown, and that we were going to live there.

Were you hoping others would follow your lead?

I did. Not only did I feel that other people would follow the lead, they might increase the use of the lofts and that sort of thing. But I thought it would also inspire the city leaders and the county leaders to, maybe, make further investment in embellishing what is going on in the community, and particularly downtown, which I see has kind of decayed, if I can use that word.

You've lived downtown for three years. Have you accomplished what you hoped?

Personally, I'm very happy to be in our new dwelling in the Performance Place, which is contiguous with the new performing arts center. I'm a little disappointed that there hasn't been more movement in the city. The RiverScape was there already. The baseball field was there already. And the new performing arts center has added to the atmosphere downtown. But I don't see much movement beyond that, I'm sorry to say.

What do you think is needed?

There's an old saying in medicine: Before you can cure the disease, you have to make a diagnosis. That's the first step. I don't think anyone has really set a tone for making the proper diagnosis — what needs to be done in Dayton. I think it not only behooves the city government but also the Chamber of Commerce, which has been somewhat lethargic and perhaps satisfied with the status quo. I don't know, they may be working behind the scenes doing things that I don't know about. I don't see that the city council has taken very many proper steps to change the scenery downtown. We have industry leaving, we have people leaving. There isn't very much in the way of decent restaurants downtown ... I think we also need the county commission to look at that and work in concert with the city to do something about what's happening to downtown Dayton.

So, you're advocating a team approach?

Absolutely. We should have had more local support from the Dayton Downtown Partnership and the Chamber of Commerce and people in the city commission. They need to agitate to the point where we're going to do something, which then of course leads me to another pet subject that I have. We need a structural change in government. I'm using Louisville as an example, because in the past few years Louisville has become a regional government consisting primarily of the county. We have evidence that this — and San Antonio and Indianapolis — are just beautiful examples. Jacksonville and even my hometown of Milwaukee have tried a more subtle approach to the change. The county there now runs the police force, the fire department, the county library, the water supply, the county park systems, and yet it allows the suburbs to maintain a certain amount of autonomy, which they want to keep, and that's all right. But we need to make some move in that sort of direction so that you have more than just the inhabitants of the city dwelling upon what's wrong with downtown. You need the countywide participation.

Is the city stagnating?

It's not only stagnant; it's decaying. I see many, many empty buildings. We have a problem that more and more of the occupants of downtown are tax-exempt institutions — Sinclair College, the county and city buildings, the Reibold building — and that's wonderful, but you're losing some tax revenue there. Now what we need to do is invigorate the building up of private businesses along Main Street and along Ludlow. We have so many empty buildings that really need to be torn down. We need to offer tax abatements and incentives to people who are willing to build new structures downtown and to entice businesses to move downtown. I may be lofty in my thinking, but I have the feeling that if we had worked hard enough, we could have gotten The Greene shopping center downtown. We could devastate four blocks of buildings and give them adequate parking, because what is The Greene? It's primarily for eating, primarily for entertainment. I'm really not a politician and I'm not in the city or county government, but this is the viewpoint of the layperson who now lives downtown and as he drives along the street, he sees all these decaying buildings absolutely empty.

And your sense is that the city government is inadequate to the task of solving this?

Absolutely. I'll give you another example. We're trying to entice businesses to come downtown. Every day when I drive to Kettering Hospital, I drive along Patterson Boulevard and I look at the homeless people. My heart goes out to them. I really feel for them, but what gets me is they're lying on the streets, they're lying against the building, they're in groups, and we don't even have proper screening, we don't have any trees or bushes which can shield these people from people driving downtown, because they get the wrong perception of what the city is really like. As you get closer and closer to downtown, the picture gets a little worse in my opinion.

That starts to raise the question of what the role and the purpose of downtown Dayton should be in the 21st century.

It should be the hub of the city. It should be more dynamic. We made a good start with the performing arts center. What we need to do is bring businesses downtown. We're just losing Mead now, and we're losing other businesses. On Second and Ludlow we have empty buildings there. Third and Fourth at Main, empty buildings. (But) we're making a start, because it's my understanding that we have now hired an expert in urban replanning to come into the city.

Among the businesses moving out of the core is the Dayton Daily News, which is relocating its headquarters to a building near the University of Dayton campus. I asked Dr. Schuster his views on this.

I think what you did was perfectly appropriate ... I can't fault the Dayton Daily News, I think that they're staying in the city is wonderful ....

How about criticism that the newspaper's coverage of downtown is too negative?

I don't think you're too negative, and you've presented both sides of the problem. Mayor McLin ... there was a big article in the paper this morning — let her make her pitch, fine. Let others make the pitch, but keep the ideas, the ferment, going.

You've talked about empty buildings downtown that should be torn down. What about the Arcade?

You'll never be able to resurrect the Arcade until you change the climate and the character of the business area around the Arcade. It would be in the middle of a cesspool. If you look at where McCrory's used to be, even though they're resurrecting the building on the corner, I don't know what will become of that in terms of attracting business downtown. There's a whole nest of other buildings downtown that really need to be torn down in order to rebuild them. To resurrect them it would cost a fortune. But the city should say, look, we're going to give you some real enticement to stay downtown and we have lots of buildings downtown.

What about parking?

That's a big item. We need to make adequate parking. If you tear down buildings ... there should be adequate parking space.

How about safety?

One thing the city and the planners have done is improve the safety downtown. They've had the people with the brooms cleaning up and I've seen officers around Third and Fourth streets. I don't see drug dealing in the park anymore where the hotel is. I have to give them credit for improving the atmosphere downtown, with increased police guarding the places and also cleaning up. So it's not completely negative. I want to give them credit where credit is due.

What about the organizations whose job is to nurture downtown, like the Downtown Dayton Partnership?

I think we need a new direction, and maybe it should embrace more of the downtown. It should embrace where the Dayton Art Institute is, it should go down to where the homeless people are. The Oregon District should be included. I use the term lethargic. I think they've been very slow in leading the charge. As much as I like the people at the Dayton Chamber of Commerce, they, also, have not been forceful enough in things that should be done for the city to resurrect the downtown.

All things considered, how would you describe your level of optimism about the future of downtown?

By nature I'm an optimist, not a pessimist. I always say the glass is always half full and not half empty. I think there is really room to do something about downtown, but you have to have a will to do it. I think we need a change of leadership.

When you say a change of leadership ...

In the Downtown Dayton Partnership. We need to have a more forceful direction coming from the Dayton Chamber of Commerce. They need to be more vocal in some of their attitudes toward this.

What about city government?

I don't think city government has been very aggressive in pursuing these things. A lot of the things they've done have been cosmetic. They've not been true changes in the problem.

In light of all of this, if you had to do it over again, would you have made the investments you've made downtown?

Absolutely. I would have done exactly the same thing because the performing arts center needs to be in the heart of the city, and I do think we had some spark there. It was a great moment when everybody saw these things going up, and it still is when you see a packed house for ballet or opera. That, I wouldn't have changed. I would do it again in a second. Now we need to stimulate the leaders in the community to do something.

What about living downtown?

You put me on the spot, but, no, I don't regret having moved downtown. The building is lovely; the people are lovely. It's only when I move a few blocks away, walk downtown, that I begin to cringe a little bit.

Last word?

I want to end the conversation with a note of optimism. I think if there's a will, it will be done. We need to encourage the city and the county and all the business leaders to have their voices heard.

Contact Dayton Daily News Editor Jeff Bruce

at jbruce@DaytonDailyNews.com.