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Will a casino let Ohio hit the jackpot?
Sunday, October 19, 2008
Roger Plummer owns the land in Clinton County where the proposed casino would be built if Ohio Issue 6 passes on Nov. 4.WILMINGTON — Roger Plummer has owned his farm along Ohio 73 at Interstate 71 since 1970. He plants corn and runs a little flea market, and his wife has a business called Alma's Amish Cheese Barn. Plummer, 75, also draws a monthly retirement check of $125.06 from NCR Corp.
If voters approve state Issue 6, Plummer will hit the jackpot.
His 88-acre farm is the site of a proposed $600 million casino and entertainment complex that would be built if voters approve a constitutional amendment in the Nov. 4 election. Plummer said casino developers have offered him $9 million for his land.
But Plummer and the casino owners aren't the only ones who stand to gain. The Ohio Department of Taxation estimates the proposed casino would generate between $209.1 million and $231.8 million in gaming taxes, most of which would be divided among Ohio's 88 counties. As the host county, Clinton County would receive 10 percent of the gross tax receipts.
Casino developers say the complex — which would include a luxury hotel, restaurants, a theater and a golf course — would create up to 5,000 jobs with a projected average salary of $34,000.
Rick Lertzman of Beachwood, one of the developers, said he wants to build a high-quality attraction with "Midwestern sensibilities."
"You can't bring Vegas to Ohio" he said. "We're not going to have any exploding volcanos."
But the casino has plenty of opponents. Some have moral objections to gambling; others say the ballot language — written by the developers — gives the businessmen a $1 billion gambling license for free, writes a monopoly into the constitution and makes it possible the casino could pay no gaming taxes at all.
"Issue 6 is essentially a giant rip-off of the Ohio taxpayer, an abuse of the referendum process by a small clique of very wealthy individuals," said Jeffrey Hooke, who authored a study on the proposal for the conservative Buckeye Institute.
Reaction in Clinton County appears mixed, but for some it's an enticing plan in a community that expects to lose 8,000 jobs with the planned closing of DHL.
"I don't see the casino as the great savior of Clinton County," said Randy Riley, president of the county commission. But he said Clinton County's $20 million share of the taxes is "more than our general fund budget now. That would have a huge impact on the community."
Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2264 or tbeyerlein@DaytonDailyNews.com.
Comments
By Diamond R
November 9, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Well, Issue 6 did not pass. Apparently the Christian cults in Ohio think that God is going to scatter emplyment dust and everything is going to be peachy-keen. No compassion for people who want to work but can’t find jobs—this is not a cult I want to idintify with. Congratulations for creating more foreclosures and people out of work. Please forgive me as a Christian without a cult and a person who pays taxes if I do not celebrate…
By LaShonda Crislip
November 4, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Why would anyone NOT want to crate more jobs for our state!?! IDIOTS!!!! This IS a great idea!!!
By kourtney
November 4, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Some call us yuppies and others hypocrites, but facts are facts. Issue 6 is a horrible idea. A get rich quick stat for the lotto, shows that majority are bankrupt in less than two years. Instead of wanting to create jobs with a casino, maybe we should consider an investment into something with a little more brain power and longevity behind it. Honestly, were is the useful innovation of our time?
By Diamond R
November 1, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Sorry, Lauren, but I have been patient for more than a decade while Ohio loses jobs to other states and places obstacles in front of new ones. As long as ARGOSY continues to pad our lawmakers billfolds, there will never be a better deal—just lost opportunities like this one. Vote YES ON ISSUE 6. P.S. All laws have loopholes. Ever hear of lawyers?
By Lauren
October 31, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
I’m voting NO on 6. Do you realize that most casino licenses are auctioned off to the highest bidder? Instead of having out of state casinos pay into campaigns for and against this monopoly amendment, they could’ve been putting that money into fighting each other for a license, and the state would’ve gotten those millions. It would be smarter to wait until we can get the best deal that has a rock solid guarantee on tax rates and not even a hint of a loophole. Have some patience.
By Jessica Mitchells
October 31, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I am voting NO on Issue 6. With respect to the loopholes, when it comes time to pay the Boarding Taxes,etc. In addition, the promise of 10k jobs is a major over estimate and a false promise. Plus to play on the loss of the jobs at DHL…has anyone really considered the skill set of these folks? Can they transition to a role that does not challenge them and pays less? I’m all about creating jobs, but the owners are playing off the current state of emotion. Please reconsider your vote!!!!
By yes it's me
October 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Poor, poor George V. AND Ted S. a casino would just devistate there “in pocket profits” from the RIPP-OFF Ohio Lottery….Just to make our schools poorer than they already are. Get rid of the money hungery politicians and build the Resort. Yes on 6 We need some kind of ACTION and FUN AROUND THIS ONE HORSE TOWN….
By alan
October 28, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
I’m against issue 6. We should not be modifying the constitution to allow one business to operate. Why is casino gambling such an issue -vs- all the other gambling we’re currently doing? Why is casino gambling different from any other business in ohio?
We’re using the constitution, which is designed to LIMIT the powers of government, to instead take all the local control away and allow far-away Ohioians to shove a casino into someone else’s backyard. What’s next, nuclear waste sites? Bad!
By ELK
October 27, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
I am voting YES on 6. We travel often to Indiana, W.Va, and even PA. and its amazing that the parking lots are absolutely full of cars with Ohio plates. My wife was even fortunate to win a good sized jackpot and get her name on a casino website. Again I was amazed that probably 75% of winners were from Ohio. Argosy, etc. must be putting a TON of money in to trying to defeat this .. even banner ads on Foxnews.com, cnn.com, etc. I say keep Ohio money in Ohio!!!
By Brandon
October 25, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Other casinos must be hell bent on seeing this not pass with all there commercials on t.v opposing issue 6. I was barred for life from the Indiana casinos by my choice. Saying that much I will ask to be barred from Ohio’s too if it should be allowed and built because i have a gambling problem. However i still say yes on issue 6 because were only taking money away from our state by not having our own casino.
By Rezi
October 24, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
I like Steve’s comment-Yeah I’m sick of driving 3 hrs, wasting gas but besides that…5000 jobs would be very good for the area. Save the environment, create jobs, and interest to the area economy. The casino backers are not “changing” our constitution, they simply wrote the amendment for it. The voter gets to change it and you should do the research on the project before you vote. Vote against it if you want, as for me like a majority of voters polled, I’m voting YES to Issue 6!
By Diamond R
October 22, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Why are all these moralists/religious nutcases so dishonest? Is morality and religiosity all about lying? Why can they not just be forthcoming and say they are anti-gambling? Why do they have to make up a bunch of lies? Just how much is the Argosy donating to these freaks?
By steve
October 21, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Look, I’m going to gamble anyway. If I have to drive 2 hours in my SUV to get to Indiana to do it, oh well. So save the environment and keep the money in Ohio.
Yes on issue 6 FTW
By Diamond R
October 21, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Selling licenses is so cute. Of course if we had leaders in Columbus now or any time in the last twenty years this would be a valid question. However, we are stuck with the morons we seem to keep bringing to Columbus. The license issue is moot since there will never be an opportunity for someone to actually buy one. Nice try ARGOSY. Fortunatey for you most Ohioans are naive.
By Diamond R
October 21, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
So someone other than you is going to make money…and it may not all stay in the state. For that you want to vote down 5000 jobs? You who feel this way must be thrilled that DHL took their 8000 jobs because that money was leaving the COUNTRY and not just the state. The ARGOSY spends millions on ads just to confuse people. Do you really think that the ARGOSY is sincere when they tell you that casinos are evil?
By Diamond R
October 21, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Religious/Moral objections are the only legitimate objections. Everything else is disingenuous. Just ask the same questions as if they pertained to any other business such as King’s Island. Would they hire someone with a criminal record? Does the money stay in the State? Do they pay a casino tax? Do they promote crime? THIS IS A MORAL ISSUE PEOPLE. KNOCK OFF THE NONSENSE. BRING ON JOE THE DEALER.
By karen
October 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
VOTE NO!!!! The reader who said we should sell licensing rights first is correct. How can you let a corporation make changes to your constitution? They do not have your best interest at heart only their bank accounts - ching ching! HOLD OUT for a better bidder with guarantees in writing. Dont let this corporation sell you a pipe dream that is empty at the end. Look what happened to Lehman Brothers - GREED!
By karen
October 21, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
VOTE NO!!!! The reader who said we should sell licensing rights first is correct. How can you let a corporation make changes to your constitution? They do not have your best interest at heart only their bank accounts - ching ching! HOLD OUT for a better bidder with guarantees in writing. Dont let this corporation sell you a pipe dream that is empty at the end. Look what happened to Lehman Brothers - GREED!
By Shir
October 20, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
I say YES for #6 because Bilbo Baggins told me to !
By KellBell
October 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Just a person:: I’m sure that someone that works for $5.00 @hr would be much more grateful than someone like you. We have too many people that are on welfare, homeless, unemployed. It may not be an elaborate job like the one you have but at least it’s a job for someone. There are college students that could pay for thier books working this kind of job rather than use grants that they have to pay back with high interest. Use your head and think a little
By Lou
October 20, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Vote no on issue 6. I am in favor of casino gambling in Ohio but this is the absolutely wrong way to do it. We are amending the state constitution to allow the construction of a single casino. This is a bad idea and a bad precedent.
How about studying how other states have handled brought casino gambling to their states and trying to get the best deal for the state? I have to believe we could auction off licenses and make millions on those before the tax revenues start rolling in.
By Buttsex
October 20, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
I think that kittens are swell. So therefore vote yes on casinos
By GovTedStrickland
October 20, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS on issue 6. It is for our own good.
By Joyce
October 20, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
With all the large corporations leaving Ohio, I think the only salvation is for Ohio to become the Vegas of the Midwest. Vegas doesn’t even have to charge a State tax and wouldn’t that be nice for us.
By GovGeorgeVoinovich
October 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
I say YES to issue 6, because it will bring needed jobs and tax revenue to the counties and the state, we have nothing to loose but lots of money and jobs. So vote YES on issue 6. It is the one opportunity we got and we better take it, else the investors and developers will go somewhere out of state, what then???
By just a person
October 20, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Hum 5000 jobs with an average of 34,000. Does not sound like quality jobs to me. To be an average means at least 2500 jobs under 34,000. Just what are the 5000 jobs. How many of them will have Benifits. How many will be service jobs and only pay 4.00 and hours. How many are full time? How many are only part time?
By tj
October 20, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
A big NO on Issue 6 because this is the worst deal in the history of the state…
All they have to do is go on TV, say more jobs and less taxes and you say yes…
Read the Referendum (it will be there when you vote) then make your choice…I know mine
By tom
October 20, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Vote Yes on issue 6
By tom
October 20, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Vote YES ON ISSUE 6, MEANS JOBS AND TAX MONEY! Its not just the 30% to all 88 counties, its also state, local, property taxes, SS & fica tax ,workers Comp tax and sales tax. This will be the highest taxed company in the state.
By tom
October 20, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Vote YES ON ISSUE 6, MEANS JOBS AND TAX MONEY! Its not just the 30% to all 88 counties, its also state, local, property taxes, SS & fica tax ,workers Comp tax and sales tax. This will be the highest taxed company in the state.
By tj
October 20, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
What part of “gives the businessmen a $1 billion gambling license for free” did you not understand?
Rewrite the darn thing in our favor not theirs…
Do you buy cars at the price on the window sticker Ohio?
By Yadda
October 20, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
I’m voting YES. We need the jobs. Our state gov. keeps raising taxes and fees. If our elected officials won’t take action, we will.
By PHIL
October 20, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
building it means “JOBS”. licens can be revokled for wrongdoing. business’s don’t want crooks working for them, NO MORE THAN YOU WOULD! bingo is ok in ohio churchs, but not casinos? WAKE UP OHIO!!
By tj
October 20, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
So vote yes because it is the best we have? Taxpayers get little compared to the value…developers get everything (because they wrote it)…and Ohio Workers get minimum wage…
If Ohio thinks its a good idea then change the referendum to highest bidder…not lock ourselves into this plan…
By KellBell
October 20, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
I for one will vote YES on issue 6..I visit the casinos in Indiana often, I would much rather give my money to Ohio than the other states. You Ohioans are dumb to this whole issue. The one’s voting this down are the churchs and such that the Argosy has given donations to, to keep this from passing. Do some research..Why not give back to the community for what they have taken away exp: DHL, UPS, GM and so on and so on..I bet the one’s voting down plays the mega million every week.
By DSmith
October 20, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Not to sound ignorant, but I really do not care if the developers just want to get rich off of this. No matter what, the casino would bring MORE money into OHIO, create jobs, and make this state seem a little less “boring”. I’m a young college student about to graduate. And I know what attract young professionals to an area (vibrance!!!). When a state is full of religious yuppies who think gambling is just a moral issue, we’re starting to sound pretty lame. Get with it people, vote YES.
By Ron
October 20, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
The plan is far from perfect but, I would rather have people spend their money in Ohio the out of state. I would rather see people employed and making $19,000 to $34,000 and more then unemployed.
As long as any of our lawmakers are involved, no plan will be made that doesn’t have loopholes of some sort.
Let’s get the damn thing built and rolling, some money for the state and jobs for the people are better then none.
By Samuel
October 20, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
I’m all for a Casino in Ohio. But I’m a little nervous about the way they are doing it with the loopholes and monopoly and whatnot.
By Random
October 20, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Do we really want a casino operator writing amendments to Ohio’s constitution?
By tj
October 20, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
Intersting…what we have here is one casino buying airtime for the amendment and another buying airtime against…
By the way the one buying airtime for the amendment, wrote the amendment. It doesn’t take much intelligence to see that they funded the amendment to get it written in their favor.
Take the time to read the amendment. Then vote no because the taxpayers get nothing.
By Joe
October 20, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
5000 jobs? Guarenteed? $34K/year - guarenteed? 25-30% taxes to Ohio counties - guarenteed? I think Not! Read the fine print folks. Look at who wrote the proposed amendment. You think these developers and bankrollers are going to be that generous? I think NOT! Casinos only benefit their owners and developers, and this one is no different. In fact, given the language involved, this one could be worse. Vote NO.
By emq_33
October 20, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
Danny - Sure $34000/year is enough to live on, my point is most of the jobs are going to be minimum wage jobs ($19000/year). The proponents keep saying “average”. Well a lot of low paying jobs plus a couple of high paying jobs will give an “average” of $34000.
Regarding money to the schools, I already pay a lot in school taxes. And the lottery was suppose to supplement the schools. Now people are going to throw away mounds of money gambling and a few dollars will make it to the schools.
By cc
October 20, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this
1) all you have to do is read the ballot to see that there is a death pill for the 1st casino owere - if Ohio trys to bring other casinos into the mix the 1st guy gets his taxes dropped to almost zeor. 2) the tax paider would be on the hook for the updates for the US 73 ramps. 3)there is a possible 5000 jobs - yep just like the DHL stuff in Willington - they got a BIG TAX break and when the tax break ended DHL MOVED OUT. DO A GOOGLE OF THE Prime owener - real standup guy LOL
By mike
October 20, 2008 5:57 AM | Link to this
DAH DID U SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RICH MANS CASINO ITS CALLED WALL STREET!!!LET THE LITTLE MAN HAVE HIS CHANCE.THE GOVERMENT WONT HAVE TO BAIL THE CASINOS OUT WITH OUR MONEY
By danny
October 20, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this
emq33 if 34000/year isnt enough to live on then go to college and get your degree and get the real job you think should just be handed to you. vote yes on issue 6 the bill says most of the tax money is going to the schools.
By Blah
October 20, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this
I’m voting yes. We need the jobs. I’ve seen in other states and it didn’t lead to all the things people are saying.
By resident evil
October 19, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Vote yes! Forget tech town lets have casino town in Dayton.
By jon
October 19, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Vote Yes to Issue 6 !!! This is a good thing folks. There are not many jobs where a high school grad could be making 35k+ a year with benefits. Also people who really think that the casino will eventually quit paying Ohio tax dollars are ignorant it makes no business sense.If that happens dont you think that something would be done about it, either through legisation or another vote, plus the Casino doesn’t what to ruin other future oppritunity in Ohio, or other states.
By jon
October 19, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Randy Riley president of the Clinton County Commission is an uneducated fool.
I don’t see the casino as the great savior of Clinton County,” said Randy Riley, president of the county commission. But he said Clinton County’s $20 million share of the taxes is “more than our general fund budget now. That would have a huge impact on the community.” So Randy what exactly does the Casino mean to Clinton county? Sounds to me that Randy doesn’t support it. All I know is it beats an empty airfield
By Jim
October 19, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Get rid of the factories and bring on the Casinos!
Hellya!
NOT!
By NoTell Voter
October 19, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
If they’ll give a convicted felon a job I say more power to them. There are so many ex felons who have done their time and are trying to get job and put that behind but so many places will not hire them. No wonder they resort back to crime. They can’t make a living. Keep the gambling money in Ohio and give a reformed felon a job! Vote for Issue 6!
By ken
October 19, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
do not vote yes on issue 6. this issue is nothing but trouble for this state. I know the positive ads make it sound good or Ohio economy,but lets be real, no amendments for regulations. Just like our goverment, it’s corrupted.
By Sherlock
October 19, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Gambling will come to Ohio sooner or later. Be it the right way where the state makes millions or the wrong way where they stand to lose millions. I will NO vote this issue this time and hopefully it will fail, but the state needs to start taking action to legalize casino gambling so it will benifit the state. I don’t agree with the present amendment but I will vote YES in the future even if the future amendment cleary says that NO taxes would be paid to the state. Ohio you’re out of time.
By emq_33
October 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Oh boy! An average salary of $34,000/year. The vast majority of the 5000 employees will be making minimum wage with poor benefits. It will be the few way overpaid management types that will bring the average up to $34,000/year.
Trying to make it sound like they are bringing in good jobs is as pathetic as the pay day loan sharks trying to scare people by saying that if their outlandish interest caps there will be a loss of 6000 jobs from their “industry”.
What we need are real jobs!
By Wordell
October 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
In your excitement to create revenue for your state, please quit standing in the door without your parachute on. When the green light illuminates, and you step out, “mean ol’ Mr. Gravity” takes over. From what I read into this article, there are red flags galore. Money will make people do the most amazing things. Make sure that the revenue collected goes where it should. Vague regulation will produce “vague recollection” on whre the money is…or was. Beware.
By The Burg
October 19, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Gambling already exist in Ohio in the form of Lotto and Instant tickets.The only difference is it is a staionary building you go to instead of a quickie martwith more options to play more games.If the money goes where it is suppose to and not in some politicians pocket,I say let them have it in Ohio.But they said the instant lotto and things were for the schools and look what happened there!Keep the politics out of it and get the wording straightened out,Ohio could stand to make tons of money.
By SUE HOBGOOD
October 19, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
WELL I HOPE OHIO WAKES UP AND VOTES YES ON ISSUE 6. WE GOT ALOT TO THE INDIANA AND MICHIGAN AND CANADA CASINOS AND LET ME TELL YOU OVER 80% OF THE CARS THERE ARE FROM OHIO. SO WHY NOT LET US HAVE A BOOST TO OUR ECONOMY AND MAKE JOBS FOR THIS AREA. IF YOU DONT LIKE TO GO TO CASINOS DONT GO. BUT I AM SURE SOMEONE YOU KNOW HAS LOST A JOB AND IS NEED OF ONE AND THERE WILL BE MOTELS, RESTURANTS SHOPS, TO GO ALONG WITH THIS CASINO. JUST LIKE SOMEONE NOT LIKING TO SHOP YOU STAY OUT OF THE MALLS. YES #6
By sandy
October 19, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
bring it on. i go to argrosy. so if i loose at laest the money stays in ohio instead of indiani. people are gripeing the older paople will go and loose these pensoin. have u ever been there .well let me tell you there is more older people there . then young people. and yes i have ask myself how they do it. botton line if they are going to gamble they may as well stay in ohio. there is more cars there from ohio then there own state. that ought to tell youall something
By flowers
October 19, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Really now - loose your money in Ohio or Indiana? Duh!
By flower
October 19, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Really now - loose your money in Ohio or Indiana? Duh
By flower
October 19, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Really now - loose your money in Ohio or Indiana? Duh
By flower
October 19, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Really now - loose your money in Ohio or Indiana? Duh
By JM
October 19, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
The Drug dealers and Pimps will make a lot of money in Wilmington Oh if you vote on issue 6.
By h.hicks@att.net
October 19, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
I have no issues with a casino in Ohio, however I have an issue with this constitutional amendment. The way this amendment is worded we are asking for trouble, anyone could work or own the casino, and the State Of Ohio could do nothing about it. Do want your Blackjack dealer to be convicted embezzler or the owner to have known mob connections. The way this amendment written their is nothing the state can do about it. The only way to make changes to this amendment would be to repeal it
By GamblerLJ
October 19, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
I was at both the Grand Victoria Casino and Belterra Casino last evening and I would 95% of the cars in the parking lots were from Ohio. So that also means 95% of the money these folks lost was Ohio money. People are going to gamble, so why not gamble in Ohio?
By Chuck
October 19, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
I;m all for legalised gambling. Show me a way to keep the government out of it, (they are crooked enough with the gambling they run now)and the mob too, and you will have my support. I know what, put the far right religious fanatics in charge.
By Ray
October 19, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
The other States with casinos are making money and the States gets taxes as well as many other benefits. I have no idea whats wrong with these Ohio people. Its time for Ohio people to take a stand against our rich Ohio Politicians. Build that casino
By scotty
October 19, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this
ohio needs to build a casino. too much money rolls out of this state on a daily basis and this area needs jobs. Why can’t they modify the legislation to close the loopholes? It doesn’t seem like too many people are fundamentally opposed, they just want to make sure the benefit stays here. i would be happy to open a payday lending franchise right next door to the casino and charge 50% interest.
By theayeshaveit
October 19, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
Let ‘em roll!