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WINTER WEATHER
Most counties to cut back on plowing snow, salting
Engineer: 'It will be physically impossible to live up to the public's expectations in terms of clean black roads'
Tuesday, November 25, 2008
A Preble County crew readies the snow-clearing equipment on Monday, Nov. 24. Because of budget constraints, the county will have to do with 500 tons of road salt less than it used last year. Montgomery is the only county not reducing its snow-removal services this year.Miami Valley county engineers are setting expectations low this winter when it comes to clearing roadways of snow and ice.
"It will be physically impossible to live up to the public's expectations in terms of clean black roads during and after storm events this upcoming snow season," said Warren County Engineer Neil Tunison.
Tunison said he needs 11,000 tons of salt to keep roadways clear, but only 5,000 were available from distributors. He is uncertain if he will be able to acquire any more this winter.
Don't expect the usual clear pavement in Greene County either. The problem there is not salt availability, but high salt costs.
"We will not be making roads black and keeping them black," Engineer Bob Geyer said. "People are just going to have to go back to the old-fashioned way and learn how to drive in the snow."
In Preble County, only hills, curves and intersections will be treated, unlike last winter where the full length of roadways were treated, County Engineer J. Stephen Simmons said.
Things are so bad in Preble that Simmons has already told the townships and villages he supplies that the only salt he has is the 2,000 tons remaining from last year.
Miami County Engineer Doug Christian said pure salt will be used only on County Road 25A and a few other primary roads in the county's 429-mile system, and even those roads will see "a reduced rate of application."
Christian said he's talked with several county engineers about the issue and heard the same thing.
"Most agreed that the 'bare road' policy that many of their residents are accustomed to may no longer be attainable," Christian said.
While other localities are cutting back on their snow-fighting efforts, Montgomery County Engineer Joe Litvin said the county has everything it needs for the winter.
"We got a good deal on $69 a ton salt, and we are constantly honing our snow-fighting tactics on what works best for the least cost," he said.
Like many other counties, Montgomery County started using beet juice as a road de-icer about five years ago. Litvin believes that experience will mean less salt used this winter. In addition, the salt used will go further because the county pre-wets the salt before spreading it to increase the salt's effectiveness.
With snow in the forecast for today's morning and evening commute, Litvin had three tips for drivers: Slow down; maintain a clear distance from traffic ahead of you; and leave early.
"Just because the speed limit is 55, that doesn't mean it's safe to drive 55," he said.
"There will be plenty of slide offs. Slow down."
Snow showers may make for a slippery commute today
Snow showers were forecast to start falling at 3 a.m. today, Nov. 25, with a prediction of a half-inch of accumulation.
After a short break, snow showers are forecast to resume about 10 a.m. and continue into the evening with about an inch of accumulation possible.
Comments
By Dayton Citizen
December 20, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this
Why do republicans ignore facts? To all these people saying republicans are not in control of Ohio… They are in control of the Ohio legislature until Jan 20th, at which point a new Democratic majority legislature takes over. They lost because people of sick of them ruining everything. I hate them for what they are doing ton this country. And why did an article about salting the roads become a political discussion? Stupid republicans blaming everything on Obama
By JW
November 27, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
All the comments are interesting. I take to heart the ones that say they are king of the road with their 4x4. I have a all wheel drive as well but I still use caution and common sense. I still see that vehicle in my rear view mirrow and cringe. I try to take the side roads when possible and avoid the freeway because that is where all the insane drivers are.
By Bill
November 26, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
The liquid that is sprayed on the road before the rain or ice hits is either brine-saltwater or beet juice. They do that to avoid the black ice conditions that can form in mere minutes and make bridges and intersections death traps that absolutely NO driver could handle no matter what type vehicle he’s driving. By doing this they get a several hour jumpstart on any storm coming. Dry salt would just blow off the road before the storm got there. It amazes me what people expect from governments.
By BB
November 25, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
well, the article specifically stated it is Greene and Warren counties cutting back. My question is cutting back from what? for all the things people want to say about the city of Dayton, at least their roads are cleared within a reasonable amount of time. Greene Co can’t ever seem to get the highways and major streets cleared for 2 or 3 days. Drive on 675/35 from Beavercreek and you’ll be on partially cleared road, then get to the Dayton city limits, completely clear!
By G. Brunner
November 25, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
I have all wheel drive. I am invincible, get out of my way if you can’t handle your car………. Just kidding. There is way too much salt used. This shortage and cost issue could be a good deal for all of us.
By Brad
November 25, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
plainfultruth, absolutely hilarious! Dayton… what a hole
By glus
November 25, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
I plan to drive fast and swerve
By painfultruth
November 25, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
I’m more worried about getting hit by a stray bullet when driving through Dayton. Hey, we made 26th on the list of most dangerous cities in the USA! Great, huh?
By N Alexander
November 25, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Yes, the ocean is full of salt. Salt is expensive to evaporate out of sea water. It is done, for food grade salt. Road salt (that which is still salt anyways) is mined. Salt flats, salt domes, etc. There are chemical versions too. (the salt that looks blue) A few more years, and road salt may be a thing of the past. Of course, they could just pass a bill and let us have snow tires or chains.
By Barry
November 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
“hey” should have been “they” in that last post
By Barry
November 25, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
trains, is there any problem hey can’t solve?
Obama, is there any problem he can’t solve?
I am so going to love the next decade
and for the record, the seas are full of salt water, but road salt comes from mines (seas that dried up millions of years ago) , it is cheaper to dig up rocks then it is to evaporate sea water for the salt
when the price of fuel went up last summer the cost of mining went up. when the cost of fuel went up last summer the cost of shipping salt went up. Those price increases are still in everything you buy, be it groceries or rock salt. Prices go up like a rocket, they fall like a feather (for the most part anyway)
but hey we don’t need any domestic oil production, even if we are sitting on a bajillion barrels of the stuff we don’t want to drill for it.
By Terri
November 25, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
I HATE driving in the snow. Other drivers scare me, but when you got to work you got to work-so I drive in the snow :(
By Brad
November 25, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Glad to see the topic of salt and road conditions turn political. Learn to drive DAYTON.
By Scott
November 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
For ‘K’ron, and her ‘rainbow, sunshine day, hippie luv-fest’ with ‘high speed rail, the wave of the future’, I am reminded of the ‘Monorail’ eposide of the Simpsons.. Just a suggestion, if 3 feet of snow were to fall on the roads, it would fall everywhere else too. That everywhere else would include, you got it -RAILROAD TRACKS… I have been places where snow closes rail travel too, so a word, ‘don’t hang the rainbow, and sing Kumbyah until you understand the outcome.
By Buckeye Bob
November 25, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Cutbacks in winter road maintenance? This also did not happen over night. The counties in the past twenty years could not spend enough money as the budgets, typical of all government agencies, became bloated with waste. These expenses now have become exorbitant with the soaring cost of health care etc. Ask how much in cutbacks the counties have made in other areas that assist a few at the expense of many?
By mr. midwest
November 25, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
How comforting. And this is supposedly going to be a bad winter too. The timing is wonderful. And the fact that people in Dayton can’t drive worth a dime makes it even better.
By Obamatron
November 25, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Oh, I forgot… Dayton’s Democrat Mayor, Ms. McHat. And the Democrat city council. And County officers.
By karon
November 25, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
High speed passenger trains can go right threw the snow and ice no problem! These trains are 21st century and Ohio will have these trains in the next 10 years!
By Obamatron
November 25, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Republican controlled government? Would that be our Democrat governor? Our incoming Democrat-controlled State House of Representatives? The incoming Democrat President and Congress? Or our Democrat and RINO Seantors? Ohio’s electoral votes went to Obama. We’re hardly a Republican controlled state.
By Steve
November 25, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
So why are my property taxes increasing but the level of services from the county is decreasing? If safety on the roads is left up to the drivers then what’s the point of public services? If just driving slower and safer is sufficient then why salt the roads at all? I’ve seen too many cars sliding off the road during rush hour to agree that cutting back is a good idea.
By Concerned about the Clueless
November 25, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
The original “comment” question is: “Are you worried about driving in the snow this year?” My answer is: No, because I know how. What DOES worry me is driving in the snow among the “Clueless”. The ones who have driven in snow before but, act as if it is their first time. And the ones with 4X4 who don’t realize that they can and will slide on ice with the best of them.
By Departed
November 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Wow, do you people wonder why Ohio is in constant decline? The mentality of you people is ridiculous. You are sacrastic and ignorant. The rich are rich and the poor are poor well without balance you have today’s economy. All you CEO’s have nothing without the employees who work for you and all you store owners have nothing without shoppers. Talking about Obama in relations to your salt shortage is cowardice when the problem is bad business practices within your Republican ran Government.
By Bosch's Poodle
November 25, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Does anybody know why the morons who run the salting crews spray saltwater on the roads when there’s no snow in the forecast at all?! I see this all the time and it drives me crazy.
The City of Kettering was doing this just the other day - spraying saltwater all over the roads and my car, and it was sunny out and no snow or slick roads were forecast at all. Just wasting salt, killing grass, rusting cars, and generally making their city look like a dingy, dirty dump. STOP IT.
By Derek
November 25, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Most of the time the counties over salt anyway (i.e. Less then an inch of snow). Drivers just need to slow down in these conditions and learn to drive.
Steve, you are dead on.
By concerned citizen
November 25, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
I think Ohio should put all of its salt supply together and then divide it out….HAHA
By Jonny boy
November 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Salt shortage? Isn’t the ocean full of salt? That’s nice that the counties are saving money by putting our safety at risk.
By Jonny boy
November 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Salt shortage? Isn’t the ocean full of salt? That’s nice that the counties are saving money by putting our safety at risk.
By concerned human
November 25, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Obama thinks all the counties and cities of Ohio should put all of their salt together and then divide it out….isn’t that Obama’s answer to everything
By Obamatron
November 25, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
It’s time for the Lord Messiah Obama to take on Big Salt! We need to throw some bailout money at Big Salt and give the feds a controlling interest in the nationally vital salt industry. Time to spread the salt… the rich have too much, and it needs to be redistributed to the poor. That’s the only fair way of doing it. Or He could use his glowing countenance to simply melt the snow off the roads by force of will. Melt that snow, change snowy roads to clear! Change! Change! Change!
By Vonda
November 25, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
If its to slippry we all can just go to tha mall when things is closed. If that snow is too deep we just get out our big forbyfor and it gets thru that snow liky slipt. Its them little jap cars that get off the rode all the time.
By Dayton Dude
November 25, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
To “1 of only 4” and “Steve” you guys are my heroes. I love a sarcastic salty response!
By Bob
November 25, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
That darn smoking ban!
Sorry… knee jerk reply. People will just have to slow down, use caution, and TURN OFF their cell phones when they drive this winter. I know it’s an unusual thing to ask, but it is for everyone’s safety. And just because you drive an SUV doesn’t mean you are impervious to inclement weather. Just use common sense, folks!
By josh
November 25, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Well roads aren’t kept well in our area as it is…with no snow. It may have been a smart thing to stock up on a little bit more salt this year…but I guess buying it later than it should have been boughten and not being able to get enough saves them a pretty penny. Typical engineers…nice job! 100% agree with the fines and at faults in accidents will definatly rise considerably. The way the even the lower end of the government can screw us;)
By Doug
November 25, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Obama said he would have enough salt to spread around to everyone.
By Patty
November 25, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
They won’t be clearing the roads, BUT you can guarantee they will fine you for failure to control if your car slides off the road. You can be crawling and hit ice and still slide off the road. If they see you off the road they will gladly ticket you for failure to control. Just this last year they passed a law that they are not responsible if they do not clear the roads. What a nice coincidence this law and no salt. Sounds like they want us off the road for MONEY.
By cold in ohio
November 25, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
The state of ohio needs to do an investigation in the salt issue as the salt companies are claiming not enough supply. ODOT, cities and counties went out to bid for salt and some had to go out for bid 2 to 3 times to even get supplies to provide a bid and even then the prices were 2-3 times what the prices were last year. The government agencies have been trying their best but are being held hostage by the salt suppliers. Investigate the salt companies!
By Katmandu
November 25, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
You really do NOT need salt on all the FLAT and STRAIGHT roads here in Ohio. If folks would drive with sanity and common sense everyone would get where they are going SAFELY.
I grew up in the hills of SW PA. You haven’t lived until you “try” to navigate your way up/down all the twisty, curvy hill roads like they do! You learn a whole lot of respect for driving SLOW in bad road conditions!
JUST DRIVE SLOWER when the roads are BAD! Also learn what BLACK ICE IS and RESPECT IT !!
By 1 of only 4
November 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
You mean we will have to be responsible for our own well-being and drive slow and stuff??? Personal responsibility is such a radical concept..I don’t know if I can cope?? I hope everyone caught the sarcasm in my response. Unfortunately there will be those drivers who will continue to drive fast until they spin out on the road. They make me laugh. The first snowfall determines the good drivers from everyone else.
By Brenda
November 25, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this
I am hesitant to drive…….I don’t care much for driving in perfect weather, driving w/o the roads being clear really worries me, but my conclusion is that I won’t try to go to work if I feel that it is too bad for me to drive. Hopefully the road crews will do their very best!
By Elizabeth
November 25, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this
What is the report for the northern part of the Valley - like Shelby county?
By jill
November 25, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this
I wish DDN had reported the REASON for the salt shortage. Wouldn’t everyone like to know why? Not exactly a “complete” story.
By Steve
November 25, 2008 7:16 AM | Link to this
This will be like when I learned to drive in the late 1970’s. You had snow tires, a full tank of gas, salt and a shovel in your car if the need arose. A healthy dose of common sense, which means we drove SLOW to arrive safely at our destination.
For those who do not adapt. Look up at the road from the ditch, I will wave and smile as I drive by!
By Bill
November 25, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this
Miami and Greene counties should have taken advantage of the same deal that Montgomery County Engineer Joe Litvin took advantage of if they wanted more salt. There is no reason Montgomery County residents should supply other counties with salt.
The County Engineers have nothing to do with the maintenance of City of Dayton Streets. That is strictly City of Dayton functions or lack thereof.
By Sue
November 25, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this
Thank you to ALL counties for their efforts. It’s easy to be critical when you’re not the one having to make the decisions with the money budget. During this time of Thanksgiving, thank you to all our county workers for their efforts and successes!
By Rich
November 25, 2008 5:54 AM | Link to this
Montgomery County should give their salt to Greene and Miami Counties…at least Greene and Miami Co.’s will get the job done if they have the salt.
By Tim
November 25, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Can’t imagine what worse will look like in Dayton. Street maintainence is bad enough now.