By wally

September 4, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Baker’s explanation is the silliest I have ever heard. Should a runner loaf on a fly ball because it is hit to a Gold Glove fielder? And if you are going to be out by a mile, do you loaf and make it a mile and a half or do you go hard and maybe, just maybe, the catcher will drop the ball (it happens)?

By HuberTucky

September 3, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Ever hear of Pitcher Abuse? I hadn’t until I read Brian Stevenson, PA SportsTicker Staff Writer. His words: “The Reds have plenty of young talent, but time will tell whether manager Dusty Baker has done any long-term damage to his stud pitchers. Both Volquez and Cueto, along with Harang and Bronson Arroyo, rank in the top 35 in Pitcher Abuse Points, a statistic compiled by Baseball Prospectus to gauge the wear and tear placed on a pitcher’s arm over the course of the season.”

By BrarHopper

September 3, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Oh Wizard, I just tasted a little vomit in my mouth. The idea of CP on this team next year and the prospect of seeing Dusty send him up to bat in the 9th with a close game…well, it’s just too much to bear. Where’s my rope? I’m heading for the garage.

By ross

September 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

wizard..dont put Dickerson in the HOF after 20 games..he will break your heart..if the Reds are bad again next year and he gets 130 starts I say he hits somewhere between .240-.250 may hit 12-15 HR in that cracker box..I’m not sold on Bruce yet either buts he will be a better player then this guy..not much talent on this squad

By Wizard

September 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Perhaps I was correct on CP, after all. He just seems so close to finding it—but, then he like so many others on this team, breaks your heart, so many times!I do think they will keep him around next year—What do they have to lose—another pennant?

By michael

September 3, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

I agree that Dickerson is probably not the leadoff man and CF of the future, but disagree that he can’t play everyday on this team. With this roster, you have to let it play out. He has been impressive. Picked off or not, he has been a big reason that the Reds have been competitive of late (not to mention they are playing the Giants and Pirates). I think he has given life to this team since his recall. Timb will disagree, but hustle will carry you a long way. Still think we need a brand name SS (not Bartman Gonzalez)and an all star caliber CF, and some right handed pop somewhere to compete. I am starting to think that Hanigan can Catch a little, but still not convinced he is the savior. Not even close yet.

By MAC

September 3, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

I certainly understand the frustration w/ the CP/DB “relationship.”He/DB are not my favorite due by a long shot. But as Matt points out, he made a great play in the field and drove in the 2nd run tonight w/ a single to RF off a hanging curve ball. Right now, it’s good that the Reds have CP because no one else @ Louisville is ready and too many of our ML outfielders R injuried. If I were king, A. Phillips or Cabrera? would be playing in the OF more or even Votto in left and Phillips or Valentine @ 1st, but no one has asked me for my ideas. Ideally, CP needs to go somewhere else where he can relax and work on his hitting in AAA. Who knows if he ever becomes the player he and Dusty hope for, but somewhere else where he can stop pressing couldn’t hurt him any.

By Matt

September 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

As bad as Patterson has been this year, the one thing he can do is play some defense. Outstanding play in CF tonight, and the top play on Sportscenter I might add! But with the good comes the bad. A terrible, horrendous AB in the 6th inning with 2 on and the Reds threatening. That was a critical point in the game and as usual, CP can’t come through at the plate. We all know about the Designated Hitter rule in the American League. Sometimes with ole CP I wish there could be a Designated Fielder in the National League. He can field but he can’t hit the broad side of a barn on most occasions.

By HuberTucky

September 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Team Baker/Patterson… They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So what does Dopey Baker do in tonight’s one run game against the lowly Pirates? SOS. Let sub-.200 patterson bat in the 9th. How many times does Manager Lunkhead have to go to a dry well before he gets it? You mean there were NO bats hitting above .200 on the bench to PH for Corey!? Gads!

By BrarHopper

September 2, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Now there’s a reply to be expected! Duh!

By Wizard

September 2, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

“Man has he been impressive”!— on Dickerson—Brenneman another walk and great eye vs tough lefthander’s breaking pitches! But, ruined it getting picked off. Never make it though!

By sun deck lover

September 2, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Sooo close. Dusty Patterson just had a chance to push his avg. into the .200 realm, but instead went down kind of swinging with 1 out and man on 3rd. I have never seen a MLB position player with an OBP near the Mendozza line that continues to play. Please let some kid from Sarasota or Dayton have his spot Walt. It is embarrasing. Look at some of the other contracts we have eaten who, sadly, offered more than occassionally running down a ball in the outfield. Cut him! People are starting to worry that he might be in spring camp next year. On another note- nice to see Burton again. Also, why not shut down JC and EV. They have thrown alot since last winter, plus we could get a look at some more young arms the next few weeks against some contending clubs.

By Wizard

September 2, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, Mr “Original”all those other players you mentioned{if you were talking to me}—I never predicted any such thing for them—you must be remembering other’s posts!I do predict success as a starter for Dickerson, if baseball politics and larger salaries don’t get in the way of his getting a proper opportunity!

By Wizard

September 2, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

I totally disagree with you Ross, on Dickerson—homerun/ KO/walk tonightshows me a decent eye—don’t care what he did in the past—don’t care about naysayers who believe only in past stats—I see a quicker bat than Bruce has, and a better eye!He’s also a better defender—and in my opinion a better player.Don’t care what the “experts” on here THINK they know.I see something different.

By Matt

September 2, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

You, that’s who.

By BrarHopper

September 2, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Here we go again. The peace truce is straining… and guess who again?!

By Matt

September 2, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

BIRDIE, you are entitled to your opinion. I personally don’t think it is acceptable either for a person who is informed to still believe that Dusty Baker “ruined” Kerry Wood, Mark Prior or any other major league baseball player, since that theory has been sliced and diced by virtually every reputable source out there.

By D8Nkenny

September 2, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

I keep wondering if anyone anywhere keeps stats on the number of baserunning errors a team makes. I have never seen anything this bad, it must be some sort of record-setting performance. And most of the mistakes are just plain stupid like Patterson not running to the plate. Is anyone addressing these things with the players? Every time I see one happen I watch the dugout and I never see Baker or a coach go talk to the player about it. Yeah, you would think they would learn on their own but there is no evidence of that. It is not getting better.

By BIRDIE41

September 2, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Matt, we all know what your opinion of Dusty is from your many,many,comments.However you are greatly outnumbered by comments against Dusty.His decision making,handling of the Reds,and the results are not acceptable for a major league manager!

By Willie

September 2, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

As a former left-handed first baseman, I have to disagree with some of Mr. Baseball’s logic. I do agree that first and third - less than 2 out - runner on third must go on ground ball contact - and run hard. Most likely, the first baseman is holding the runner on to keep the double play in order and is also therefore close to the bag but slightly behind it. When holding a runner on base, the first baseman should slide off the bag and slightly backwards as the pitch is delivered to be in the best possible defensive position. Hard ground ball to first baseman, if one step or less from bag, first baseman must step on the bag. Too close to waste the opportunity for an easy out. Easiest play for the second out is to throw home. Going to second requires throwing around the baserunner and at a right angle to the momentum of the first baseman. Going home is the correct play as there is no baserunner in the way. Also, the first baseman’s momentum is going toward home as well - making for a quicker and more accurate throw. By the way - this would be the correct play for either a left-handed or right-handed first baseman.

By jsc

September 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

2008 Red’s results do not validate your confidence in baker. This year has not seen the man’s star rise, nor has it done much if anything to encourage the Red’s faithful to hang their star on Baker. But you’re right, perhaps he needs time. However, last years team finished above 500 for Pete Mackanin and his 2007 team was worse (on paper) than Baker’s 2008 team. I guess we’ll see. The reality, IMO, is that the Reds MUST keep Baker because of his high ticket 3-year $10 mil contract. I doubt they’re going to be willing to eat another Stantonesque blunder contract.

By Matt

September 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

If Walt Jocketty is smart, he will keep Dusty Baker around for the length of his contract, and more, if Baker wants to stay. Unless of course the Reds can find a manager that bests Baker’s accolades, his record and his experience managing the right way. You don’t find managers who have 1,200 plus career wins every day. You don’t find managers who have multiple Manager of the Year awards every day. You don’t find managers who have the respect and admiration of virtually every player they have ever managed and who is one of the most respected men in baseball every day. I think a lot of people in Cincinnati are so used to losing and the mess that has been the past 7 or 8 years that we associate everybody on this team with that. Dusty Baker is a winner. He has a winning attitude and a winning way of managing games that has succeeded every place he has gone to. He is among the best managers in the game today and the Reds are better off with him at the helm, in my opinion.

By Nick W

September 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

i haven’t been watching the reds much latley and i didn’t see the play so i am just commenting on hal’s words on the play. I think that corey is one of the worst players in the majors, he has good speed but obviliously doesn’t use it cus he is never on base and he can’t decide to run home or not. The last i saw he is batting .196 and that is horrible for this late in the season. ESPN did this thing where they picked out the 3 worst years a player had for each team and corey was on of the players for the CUBS in 05 and he did better that year then he is doing this year and he is making 3 million amazing, if he is back next year it gonna be hard to be a fan of this team.And of coarse dusty is gonna defend corey on this he has done it all year, saying that is good for the team because of his fielding and baserunning and now we see dickerson up here playing alot better then corey we could have used him earlier in the year instead of corey. Now hal makes a good point on why Hanigan didn’t stop and start and rundown so that corey could score and that is something u should know and i know he is a rookie but he did go through minors. We have seen that alot this year with players making dumb plays and everyone is saying its dusty fault but i think it is the minor league coachs fault. The players should know these things and if we had a good minor league coach, i don’t know who it is so im just going by what i see the young players doing,these players would know the basic things before they come up and that is why the go through the minors so they don’t make these mistakes in that majors.

By ross

September 2, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

arizona pat..thats a instinctive play for Patterson..he is moving on the play or not..Berry can’t tell him to run or stay..this is not little league baseball

By Mr. Redlegs (Original)

September 2, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Oh yes, oh yes! By all means, canonize Dickerson after 17 games and 68 ABs the same way you canonized Freel, Hopper, Keppinger, Stynes, Owens, Clark, Nunnally and any number of assorted pan flashers who had success for 3 minutes before scouting reports and word of mouth got around the league. How’s that Jay Bruce to the Hall of Fame campaign going these days?

By ross

September 2, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

wizard..Dickerson is not the answer to lead off and play CF..he is a 4th OF at best..what has he played 20 games..Bruce looked like a player to the first few weeks he was up…I think Bruce will be a decent player but not a franchise type player…Dickerson strikes out way too much to lead off..give the guy 120 games and see where he is at…I hope the Reds acquire a RH bat that can hit with pop..this team needs some pop..a bunch of punch and judy hitters

By Hank

September 2, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball’s story about the 1967 Cardinals-Reds game makes me wonder how many game-ending triple plays there have been in major league history. Anybody know of any others?

By Steven Ross

September 2, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

By tom—-This Patterson/Baker stuff is a big bore. They will both be gone in seven months if Bob and Walt really want to compete in the NL Central. Here-here! I agree. The general silence of WJ will be broken in the offseason with sweeping changes including management. We won’t have CP or DB to kick around next year. That’s my story.

By Mike-Cinci

September 2, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Good comments by Florida Buckeye and SJ in IND. I think Baker does make some bad decisions but the major problem with the Reds is a lack of talent on the roster. This is what is holding the franchise back from success. It would be much more fun criticizing the manager for his moves if the Reds were fighting for a playoff berth. I know they are doing that in LA, Philadephia, New York, Chicago, and the Twin Cities. Walt Jocketty is the right man to be on the hot seat now. He has to find players that will make this team better. The Rays are a great example. They are good because they have a great farm system that builds the MLB roster and permits them to trade for needed talent. This did not happen overnight. Until the Reds acquire more talent criticizing Baker is like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. It might let off some steam and give us something to do but it won’t change the result.

By bobs

September 2, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Mike-Cinci, good post. Some issues though. I cant say this team over achieved. They were supposed to be above average with a chance to make some noise. Dusty made the decision to start Patterson and Bako…obviously very very bad decisions. Both should have never been on this team to begin with (although understand Bako more then CP). When Bruce and Ross (nothing to write home about) were injured slightly in the Spring, it allowed Dusty to go with who he was most comfortable with…and for some unknown reason he has stuck with them. This team could have and should have been better, even with Dunn hitting low and Griffey not hitting. Also, before we move Votto to the outfield, lets actually see if Yonder can hit. There has been plently of first round draft picks to not make it.

By down9

September 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

“OK, here’s another one. When Sandoval stepped on first, removing the force at second, why didn’t Ryan Hanigan stop en route to second and get in a rundown, enabling Patterson to possibly score from third? Instead, Hanigan continued hard into second, without hesitating, and was tagged out.” how the hell is hanigan supposed to know sandoval stepped on 1st, he’s kind of running opposite the direction his eyes work

By Wizard

September 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Yep, sure seems like once upon a time, someone once said on here that Dickerson would be the logical choice for CF next year—but, was told he was only a “AA” player, at best—“a fourth or fifth outfielder”!And now the fool is hitting .320+, demonstrating many skills leading off—But, I guess he’ll never be adequate or fit in…Wonder who said that?

By SJ in Ind.

September 2, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

I think it’s kind of comical that Corey Patterson is the poster child for both the embarrassingly bad season the Reds have had and for everyone’s complaints about Dusty Baker. Patterson is who everyone knew him to be: A fast guy who can’t hit and isn’t a real smart player. Dusty is who everyone knew him to be: A “player’s manager,” meaning he encourages instead of discouraging. One would still think SOMEONE would be out there who could play center field better than Patterson, but Baker is playing the hand he was dealt, though I disagree with him passing the buck and blaming Wayne Krivsky for how bad the team is. Let’s not forget that the main thing everyone talked about last year - with good reason - was the bullpen, and Krivsky largely fixed it with the additions of Lincoln, Affeldt and Cordero. This team needs guys who can hit, but are there really that many out there? Paul Daughterty has written that the Reds need a guy with speed who can hit .320 and move runners over and hit doubles? Aren’t those guys usually All-Stars? They don’t grow on trees, so it’s possible that CP could at least be in Louisville next year since (best-case scenario) Votto and Bruce could be in the corner outfield spots. Personally, I’d put Dickerson in center if they can either find a temporary 1B (Perhaps dumping Hatteberg wasn’t a good idea for this reason) or Yonder Alonso hits as well as advertised. At this point, I don’t think you can rely on Freel or, to a certain degree, Hopper anymore. As for Dusty, I think the thing Hal really brings up here is not so much that he’s apologizing for CP’s ineptitude (though he does that). I think what most Reds fans are mad about is that Baker won’t call out his team other than saying “we strike out too much” or “we’ve got to get better defensively.” Being raised on Sparky Anderson, Pete Rose and Lou Piniella, Everyone wants a manager who will come out and say “Patterson made a stupid, mindless baserunning play, and until we quit making dumb mental mistakes like that we won’t get better.” However, Dusty doesn’t seem to be that kind of guy. He’s an encourager who prefers to build his players up and massage egos to a certain extent. After all, this is a guy who had to work with Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds for years. They were jerks, but professionals for the most part, so that approach worked in San Francisco. Now he has young guys and players like Brandon Phillips who are so interested in being stars that they try to be sluggers and hit .260 trying to hit the ball out when they should hit .290 and concentrate on hitting line drives. Bruce and Encarnacion are two more examples of that. There needs to be a policy or personality shift, but we won’t know if Dusty is the guy who can make that happen for another 2-3 years. Consequently, I don’t think the Reds will be done losing in the near future.

By Florida Buckeye

September 2, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Mike-Cinci, nice post…Consider these points: payroll is not a deciding factor in winning percentage - see this years Rays Club - also, how many games did it take this year for the Reds/Baker to figure out that Griffey shouldn’t be playing as much, and definitely shouldnt have been in the Three Hole…add to that, CP leading off, and Bako catching and we have a bad top of the order, middle of the order, and bottom of the order…Granted your points about other teams being just as bad, if not worse, and it’s not the manager’s, or the payroll that is at fault, are valid; but, can we honestly give Baker a pass for the line up gaffes? For the baserunning blunders? For continually playing players - that he brought here! - when they are not performing? For messing with the rotation? For allowing the team to freefall? Granted, once the pitcher takes the mound there’s not much a Mgr can do…however, which personel are on the field, Playing Time, Batters, Hustle, and Strategies are…and I firmly place the blame on Baker!

By Dick Klenk

September 2, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Identifier: Hithergreen Middle School, 1968, pickup basketball. Still a loyal reader - just not everyday. I live in Westervile, a suburb of Columbus and get the Columbus Dispatch daily. I’ve noticed over the last month or so that the Dispatch sporatically includes stories by you covering the Reds. That was news to me when I first read it. What bothers me is your stories do not always appear in the Dispatch as wrtitten by you. A couple weeks ago I read the Dispatch version in the paper, thinking “that realy doesn’t sound like Hal writing it”. So I checked the Dayton Daily for the same story. Not exactly the same article. (I had saved the Dispatch article, but now cannot find it.) As I recall, there was even a piece of info in the Dispatch story that did not appear in the Dayton Daily. Know anything about this? I think it is great that more people are “exposed” to you and your writing style, but only if it is you - not some Columbus (maybe even Dayton, who knows) editor.

By Dan

September 2, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

Hes been wrong all year so why ask now?

By michael

September 2, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

As the Leader of the team, I would expect Dusty to avoid publicly reprimanding his players, but I am not sure if he is handling his business behind closed doors either. If he were, CP would not be around.

By Kevin

September 2, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

Hal…is it so Hal? Please Hal…say it aint so....cmon back.

By Kevin

September 2, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

MAC…regarding your comment on Sept. 1 @ 8:02 AM. How many times does it take for a guy to go back to the well before they see its dry?! PLEEZZZE... Both CP and DB have proven they dont belong here…at least to people who want to win!!!

By Mr. Redlegs (Original)

September 1, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

How do you know the comments of a supposed Reds fan should be summarily dismissed as incompetent? When he says Dusty Baker, with more than 1,200 career wins, is a worse manager than Vern Rapp. It’s really ludicrous when people make a comment like Baker should be getting more out of this team. WHAT ROSTER ARE YOU LOOKING AT? Wha, they should have 70 wins instead of 61? And for what it’s worth, really great post by Mike-Cinci. Dead-red correct.

By HuberTucky

September 1, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Mike Cinci….LOVED your prespective. Made me think about other teams with bigger payrolls and big name managers all adding up to similarly poor Reds-like results. Kinda makes me think there is a heck of a lot to this whole chemistry thing and how difficult it is to successfully cultivate. Keep the great posts coming, guys. This new safe eara on the blog is refreshing. :-)

By BIRDIE41

September 1, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Thanks Mark in Sun Valley,Will and many others for your negative comments of CP and his excuse maker(worst manager in baseball)Dusty.These 2 must be fired right now so that the Reds can use the rest of this year to prepare fro next year but I doubt Bob C. and Walt J. realize what is going on.Their heads are pretty deep in the sand!

By Mike-Cinci

September 1, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Mr. Baseball for your baserunning insights. Well done. We all know the Reds are lousy. Dusty has been blasted sometimes for good reason and sometimes just to blame somebody. For perspective the Reds have 61 wins with a crummy roster. Bobby Cox of the Braves has 59 wins. Joe Torre of the $110 million Dodgers has 67 wins. Eric Wedge of the Indians, a playoff team last year has only 65 wins. Jim Leyland of the Tigers favored by many to be in the Series with a $135 million payroll has 66 wins. Clint Hurdle of the Rockies who was in the Series last year has 64 wins. Bud Black of the Padres has 53 wins. Girardi of the Yankees with a $210 million payroll has 72 wins. None of these other teams had to play with Patterson, Bako, Fogg, an ineffective Griffey, and no bench. These other managers given the quality of their rosters and their financial resources have done a worse job than Baker. All losing managers become stupid and they all get fired. Bad players doom any manager. Casey Stengel was genius with the Yankees and lost 120 games with the Mets. Maybe the Reds are really worse than their 61 wins. It is possible they have over achieved this year. When you examine the Reds roster and stats it is clear this team belongs at the bottom of the standings with or without Dusty Baker.

By Mr. Baseball

September 1, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

CP’s baserunning faux pas is reminiscent of a Reds game in 1967 at old Crosly Field. Of course, Mr. Baseball was just a little jasper then, but the memory is still very vivid. The situation was not exactly the same as with CP’s blunder the other night, but close enough to evoke old memories. It was a close game between the Reds and the Cardinals that had been delayed by rain several times. With all the delays, the game went past midnight as Mr. Baseball remembers, and Mr. Baseball had school the next day, but Mr. Baseball’s dad (the original Mr. Baseball) always said, “Don’t ever leave a ball game before the last out is made, because you might miss something you’ll never see again.” So the small crowd grew smaller as the night wore on, but we stayed and saw a little bit of history that night. Jim Maloney was pitching a gem, but trailed 1-0 when the Reds came to bat in the eighth. But the Reds rallied to score 2 in the bottom of the eighth to go ahead 2-1. Mr. Baseball remembers the stands being nearly empty by this time. But in the top of the ninth with Maloney still on the mound, Orlando Cepeda singled and Tim McCarver followed with a single, sending Cepeda to third. Runners on first and third, nobody out, and Dave Bristol came to the mound to pull Maloney and bring in Don Nottebart to get the Reds out of the jam. The newspaper accounts the next day said that the Cardinals third base coach told the runner at third — Cepeda — to break for the plate on any ground ball in the infield. The Cards would force the Reds’ hand. If the Reds went for the double play, the tying run would score. But if they went to the plate to cut down Cepeda, the Cards would still have two runners on and only one out. Sure enough, the next Cards batter Phil Gagliano hit an at ‘em ball to Reds shortstop Leo Cardenas. Cepeda momentarily forgot the third base coach’s instruction and stayed close to third. Cardenas went to Tommy Helms at second and on to first baseman Deron Johnson to record two outs. About that time, Cepeda remembered his coach’s advice and belatedly broke for the plate. Johnson received the throw from Helms and fired home to Reds catcher Johnny Edwards. Out at home! A triple play! Reds win 2-1! In a 32-year span from 1957-1989, this would be the only triple play the Reds would pull off defensively. Many of Mr. Baseball’s mentors in subsequent years reinforced the message that Cepeda learned the hard way that night — with one out or less and runners on first and third, the runner on third must break hard for the plate on a ground ball. Somebody forgot to tell Corey Patterson.

By BrarHopper

September 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Seriously, no disrespect intended to any posters here. Thank you Mr. Baseball for your thorough explanation. What is so incredibly troubling for me, sad even, is that Mr. Baseball (a wise man, indeed) is that much more knowledgeable about this entire scenario than is our $10 mil 3-year contract manager. I find this indicative of what the Reds are facing and very depressing.

By Mr. Baseball

September 1, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball cannot defend Dusty on this one. He obviously didn’t see the replay of the play. The baserunning play by CP the other day was a major league screw-up. It should be used in a training film to show young players how NOT to run the bases in that situation. Anytime there is a runner on first and third with one out or less, the runner on third should be breaking hard from third on contact. (See Mr. Baseball’s next installment for an object lesson on this point.) Dusty’s claim that an experienced first baseman would have tagged first and come home is not true. The programmed play for most first basemen is to do exactly what Sandoval did — tag the bag at first and go to second for the tag play. (This is especially true for a right-handed first baseman like Sandoval who can make an easier throw to second than home in this situation.) With a ball hit that hard, there’s a chance that if the play goes well, they make the tag at second before the runner at third crosses the plate anyway. In any event, Dusty’s defense of CP’s “hesitation play” is indefensible. CP has no chance of getting back to third safely, so “hesitating” only gets him in a run down and the inevitable third out. If you watch the play, you see that CP actually did break quickly for home, but when he saw the double play developing, he slowed down to a trot, then a walk, assuming the double play would mean his run wouldn’t count. Wrong! If he really understood what the Giants were doing, he would have sped up — not slowed down — when he saw Sandoval throwing to second, hoping to cross the plate before the tag was made. But as Sandoval threw to second, CP broke into a stroll and seemed totally unaware that he had cost the Reds a run. As for Hannigan, his mistake is only slightly more excusable, given his rookie status. But a good baserunner would have been aware of the game situation, taken a glance over his shoulder to see if the first baseman was going for a tag play (yes, Mr. Baseball knows that it’s against little league logic to watch the ball, but not in this situation). If Hannigan sees Sandoval step on first, then he should pull up and get in a run down to make sure the runner on third has time to score. (Imagine what Joe Morgan would have done in the same situation. Do you think he would have stupidly hustled into a tag play like Hannigan did?) So both CP and Hannigan showed less baserunning savvy than should be expected for major league players. In the same game, Jay Bruce got picked off second by the catcher after a missed sacrifice bunt attempt by Reds pitcher Ramirez. That’s three bad baserunning plays in one game. With all the calls for firing managers and coaches, why does baserunning coach Billy Hatcher keep getting off the hook?

By Arizona Pat

September 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Right before the play happens, the third base coach should be telling the runner what to do. Either break for home on a grounder or with one out, play it safe. In this case, I suspect the soldier followed the marching orders. Dusty didn’t want to throw his coach under the bus for blowing the call. Corey is not at fault.

By tom

September 1, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

This Patterson/Baker stuff is a big bore. They will both be gone in seven months if Bob and Walt really want to compete in the NL Central.

By LINEDRIVER

September 1, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Worse than Vern Rapp?? Wow! That’s a low blow. The only thing lower would of been comparing him to 1966 Reds’ disaster/manager Don Heffner. IF this were the third and final year of Baker’s contract, he would of been fired at least a month ago with Jocketty telling us that, “Dusty has been relieved of his duties. We have decided to go in another direction.” IMO, much money has been wasted on Baker. Seems to me that Pete Mackanin would of gotten more out of this team for about $400-450K a season.

By Hal

September 1, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Hey Hal, I read where you spent some time with Keith Olberman. I hope you only listened to what he had to say about sports. hal

By LINEDRIVER

September 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

I’m still not convinced that Corey Baker won’t be on this team next year.

By The Old Hander

September 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I will always be a Reds fan, have been since 1970, but i WILL NOT spend any money to, go to games, buy sponsors products, until Dusty Baker is no longer the Manager. He has been awful, worse even that Ray Knight, Bob Boone, Or even Vern Rapp.

By Steven Ross

September 1, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Mike-Cinci Wrote: Signing Patterson was a sign GM Krivsky and Jocketty(the advisor) thought they needed speed and defense in CF between Dunn and Griffey. I’d be willing to bet it was more Krivsky and Baker with less input from then-advisor only Jocketty. Thankfully, that won’t happen in the offseason.

By Mike-Cinci

September 1, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Good perspective from MAC. Corey Patterson has played poorly and much worse than his last 2 seasons. He will not be with the Reds next year. He was over paid but many players are these days. Signing him was a sign GM Krivsky and Jocketty(the advisor) thought they needed speed and defense in CF between Dunn and Griffey. Unfortunately the Reds did not have much choice but to play Patterson given their awful roster. Let’s face it this team would be bad with or without Patterson. Freel and Hopper got hurt but even if healthy they aren’t everyday players. Hairston also got hurt. He would be playing everyday in CF if healthy. He earned it. Jocketty has got to get Baker some better players. The Reds problem remains a lack of talent as it is with other bad teams like the Pirates, Giants, Padres, Royals, Nationals, and Mariners. There is some hope with the young guys,,,Votto, Dickerson, EE, Phillips,Volquez, Cueto, Bruce but until we see more it is only hope. Beating the Giants does translate to beating the Cubs, Brewers, Cards, and Astros.

By donb51

September 1, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Typically, when a combat unit becomes ineffective it is declared “combat ineffective”, pulled off the line, and sent somewhere to refit - people, commanders, equipment, and procedures - everything is retooled. If the owners can not see this analogy, then just keep doing what you’re doing - unless you a waiting until after the season to perform the necessary refit. If that is the case, can’t we take more effective advantage of our “fall” training rather than wasting valuable playing time on people who shouldn’t be around next year?

By Steven Ross

September 1, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Baker plays favorites even when their performance screams they shouldn’t. He always has, always will. He did the same with Marvin Bernard in SF and Glen Allen Hill in Chicago. He’s gone with Bako and Patterson when their stats say he shouldn’t. Baker also did the same with CP in Chicago and they ran him and Baker out of town. IF you don’t learn from your mistakes, you’re destined to repeat them.

By Y-City Jim

September 1, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

As it stands now, Dickerson is the only one of those candidates who is anywhere close to being a leadoff man since he knows how to draw a walk. The other three are clueless in that department.

By MAC

September 1, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this

There are a lot of things about Dusty/CP I don’t like, but I see DB’s attraction to CP. He is a guy w/ very good speed and Defensive abilities…exactly what the Reds needed/need more of! And, I think DB felt he might be a player that is ready to take a jump in his offensive skills? Likewise, I think DB knew changes needed to be or would be made in the OF and that CP might be a young guy that could blossum and become a quality replacement, CF, Lead-off hitter. Furthermore, I think CP may still be that kinda player, BUT I wouldn’t have spent that much money to get him or given him this much playing time considering how POORLY he’s played. CP has to change his approach at the plate and become much more selective to be successful IMO. Frankly, I don’t see it happening, but he probably has just as good a chance as Freel, Hooper or Dickerson?? 1 thing is certain, the Reds need a quality Lead-off man, a catalyst to jump start our offense (maybe 2 at the top of the order) and I don’t see this team improving much until they get one or more of those table setters who can also play some quality Def?!

By AP-FLORIDA

September 1, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

Hal, you and I both know Rusty is full of bulldung. On second thought he may just be full of dumb. I hope Bob and Walt are seeing what we see>>>

By Kat

September 1, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

What will Dusty do, when Corey is not on this team next year, or will he???

By jsc

August 31, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

I missed today’s game and in checking the box score, I see Corey couldn’t stand the rarified air of batting .201 so he went 0 fer 5, Kd once and left 5 MOB. I can just see him flailing woldly at every pitch. Back to .197. That’s what this guy does with opportunity. No improvement, just gets worse. What a flop.

By redfuture

August 31, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

There are many, many, many former major league players who would be extremely qualified to manage a baseball team. It shouldn’t be that difficult to figure out who they are. First and foremost it should be someone who is willing to use the lineup to exert control over the team. After all that is really the only thing that he can control. He can’t control the player’s effort or alertness directly, but only indirectly by the assignment of playing time. When mental breakdowns or lackadaisical play occurs it must effect playing time in the next game. All the plays that these players need to make are practiced over and over and over through the years.

By HuberTucky

August 31, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Tow words in your headline contain the answer: Patterson wrong.

By Florida Buckeye

August 31, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

If CP had given this excuse to the medial after the game, I would have been impressed with the thought process; however, this seems to be a simple defense of his player, and it’s no wonder that Baker is considered a Players Manager…Also, I’ve been thinking of this for quite some time and would like to pose the question: Does anyone believe that Baker’s success had anything to do with his proximity to the labs in SF (Balco, I believe) and the obvious abuse of performance enhancing drugs by his players there, and in Chi-town? Just wondering…

By Y-City Jim

August 31, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe Fogg works better on seven days rest.

By Austin Red

August 31, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Is there any good reason to move Harang and Volquesz up a day, and give Fogg more rest? I just read that Dusty is changing the rotation for the Pirates series, moving Harang from Wednesday to Tuesday, Volquez from Thursday to Wednesday and Fogg from Tuesday to Thursday…

By Austin Red

August 31, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

A few weeks ago, didn’t Patterson make a couple of outs at home trying to score from third on ground balls? In defending CP then, didn’t Dusty say “the runner should go with the crack of the bat”. Now, it’s OK if you DON”T go at the crack of the bat, because you have to first judge the experience level of the infielder that gloves the ball! Dusty looks like a dolt when he says stuff like this.

By John

August 31, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Funny. I posted a comment earlier saying the beat writers should call out Baker in person for stuff like this rather than in print the next day. Now the comment’s gone. Let’s see how long this one stays up. Beat writers: Grow a spine and ask Baker the tough questions about Patterson rather than slinking away to write this passive-aggressive stuff.

By Steve

August 31, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Baker himself proved that Patterson was wrong. Baker said “IF there was a more accomplished first baseman, he would have thrown home.” Well the fact is that he was NOT an accomplished first baseman, which Patterson should have known and factored in to the situation. Plus why in the world would Dusty offer this defense WITHOUT talking to Patterson first? If Patterson was just loafing or not understanding the situation then Dusty’s statement is completely ridiculous. But sadly, not surprising. Another wasted Bako and Patterson start today.

By will

August 31, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard rumors about Corey Patterson being linked to Dusty Baker’s Daughter. Is there any truth in that? Other than Baker’s love for him in Chicago and choosing veteran players over rookies, this could be the only possible conclusion to why Patterson continues to play when his batting average comes in at just one point higher than Bronson Arroyo (.197). Oh, and the best part is Corey is making Three Million this year. Baker is a joke and Patterson is the punch line. Lets just hope the Bengals can pull a 9-7 season and possibly make the playoffs because this team is going nowhere any time soon.

By Gary Maloy Jr.

August 31, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

What would be interested to know would be if the explanation was the one Patterson gave the manager, or the one manager gave the media after having 12 hours to think it over. If it was Corey saying, “Sorry Skip, I expected him to throw home…” then it’s alright. But if it’s Dusty making excuses for him, well…

By Mark in Sun Valley

August 31, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Obviously, Patterson brought out that picture he has of Dusty with a donkey and Baker quickly changed his tune. Another indefensible base-running mistake by the Reds, defended by baseball’s worst manager.

By rob in stl

August 31, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Very disappointing Baker would retract and defend Patterson for that play. I suppose you could argue he wasn’t hustling, but for me that isn’t the issue. It’s just another example of Patterson not realizing the situation and not knowing how to react. Wasn’t Hanigan the runner on first? Doesn’t really matter but Like Y City said his back was to the play and he was preparing to break up a double play. That makes three egregious base running mistakes this week. Dickerson getting picked off, Keppinger still on second after a fly ball to deep center in Houston, and now Patterson.

By Fred

August 31, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who amazes me more—Patterson with his .196 average and baserunning fiasco or Dusty with his protectionism of Patterson. I’m becoming less and less impressed with Dusty as the season goes on and I see so very many decisions I disagree with. Like calling up Castillo and his .248 average instead of keeping Rosales. And Burton had pitched a total of two innings.

By Y-City Jim

August 31, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Baker is wrong. Patterson should have been going hard all the way. He is supposed to be fast. As for Bruce, his back is to the play. How does he know the 1B stepped on the bag for a force.