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Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy is in his 36th year of covering the Cincinnati Reds, the longest tenure for any active writer covering one team. Counting spring training and postseason games, McCoy has covered more than 7,000 major-league baseball games, written close to 18,000 baseball stories and eaten enough hot dogs to give Babe Ruth indigestion.Home > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2008 > December > 08 > Entry
Dying to hear about Dye
So far, on this chilly Monday afternoon in Dayton, there has been no confirmation or announcement on the trade of pitcher Homer Bailey to the Chicago White Sox (with a couple of minor-leaguers tossed in) for outfielder Jermaine Dye.
As many of you might suspect - because there is no LAS VEGAS dateline on my newspaper stories, I am NOT at the winter meetings. The economy being what it is, it just made little sense for the paper to send me to the meetings for four or five days when news out the winter meetings is so scarce.
Let’s hope there hasn’t been a snag in the deal. My source, reliable and an insider with the White Sox, says there is a deal in place. Or was.
White Sox GM Ken Williams is known as a tough guy to deal with and has been known to change his mind on a quick whim. And he might want more than the Reds are willing to part with from the minor-league system.
The deal certainly would be good for the Reds, even though Dye is 34 years old and Bailey is only 22.
For once the Reds have a surplus of starting pitchers and they need a righthanded bat, preferably in the outfield. Dye, who hit 34 homers last year, would hit that many, if not more, playing in Great American Ball Park.
While he does strike out (104 times last season), it is still far fewer than Adam Dunn (164) and Dye is a better defensive player and baserunner. He also hits for a better average - .292 to Dunn’s .245. They are about equals in RBIs (Dunn 100, Dye 96). Dunn takes more walks - 112 to 44.
It is a good trade for the Reds. Bailey still has a large upside and may soon live up to his pre-signing hype, but it isn’t likely to happen in Cincinnati.
Pull the trigger, Walt Jocketty. Pull the trigger Ken Williams.
THE REDS have talked in the past to the Texas Rangers about acquiring catcher Gerald Laird, a commodity thye Reds need. But that won’t happen. It appears the Rangers have traded Laird to the Detroit Tigers.
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Comments
By Wizard
December 10, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
To be clear, once more,I intended no insult; however, I do NOT miss either Griffey or Dunn! They were grossly overpaid, while under-performing!By Kevin
December 10, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
I miss um too Wiz. As a die hard fan its hard at times to move on from a situation that held so much promise. Can we surprise this year? I think maybe we can. I think Walt is on the right track by getting us a catcher, now if he can pull a solid RT handed hitter and maybe a SS out of his hat I think well have something to be encouraged about. Im thinking Ill probably have more time for scouting and hanging tree stands to get prepared for bow season though. Time will tell!!By Gary Maloy Jr.
December 10, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this
cincyboy - I could have mentioned several others - is an example of readers who prefer killing the messenger when they receive unpleasant news. Who cares if The Enquirer’s John Fay is in Vegas? It’s true that not much happens during the winter meetings - most moves take place in the weeks following the meetings. (Seems to me, though, that Dayton residents might wonder about the economic position of the local rag if it can’t afford 4-5 nights in Vegas…). Dusty saying Bailey has “a huge upside” doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s untradeable, cincyboy. It can also mean that the Reds demand quality for him. You write that Hal is “taking a leap on a wild rumor.” It isn’t a wild rumor when both Williams and Jocketty have confirmed that there have been talks about Dye and Bailey. There’s nothing wild about that. If, on the other hand, the rumors had come out of the Chicago media then that would have been something closer to ‘wild’ (ref. the rumors about Junior going to the Chisox a couple years ago). One thing more, cincyboy. I appreciate your loyalty to the Cincinnati beat reporter(s). And we Dayton people are loyal to the DDN. But, objectively, Hal McCoy is in the HoF. He wasn’t placed there by the readers, but by those who know what they’re talking about. I read John Fay as well, but he isn’t close to Hal McCoy when it comes to insight and the will to go out on a limb based on solid information. McCoy has big ‘nads and was rewarded with a place in the HoF. Those guys writing for the Enquirer are good - but because of SportsTalk on WLW - as you mentioned - aren’t willing to lay their heads on the chopping block. True fact. BTW. It is common knowledge that beat writers ‘make’ or ‘break’ ballplayers. A guy like a jovial Babe Ruth, or a hustling Pete Rose who always gave useable quotes are typical favorites, while surly Steve Carlton types decide not to speak to the media. If the player is good enough (as was Carlton), they don’t need the media. But everyday, run-of-the-mill players (like Bailey likely will become) need the media. Bailey’s “I’m a nr.1 draftpick” attitude doesn’t play well with many of us - apparently not Hal McCoy, either. I applaud McCoy’s letting us know that there is a deal in the works. Let’s hope we can send Homer to greener pastures so the kid can become as good as he already thinks he is.By Wizard
December 9, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
You misread me, Kevin. No insult intended—the memories do linger, however. Thanks for responding, anyway—to you and Y-City. I’d still like to hear others thoughts, as well. I’m an optimist. I think what happened last year, could just as easily have gone our way—especially since we are supposedly in a weaker division. I believe with a bit of luck we will surprise this year.By Kevin
December 9, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Ummm….Wiz…Griff and Dunner are gone my friend.(Pats him on the back…it`ll be ok).By Y-City Jim
December 9, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
That is a lot of ‘ifs” you are talking about. The Reds have lots of offensive and defensive questions to be addressed, too many to be addressed in one single season. Can the Reds improve? Perhaps if they stay healthy they can finish .500. I think responsible management projects toward putting this club in a position to contend for 2010. In other words, don’t do anything stupid that jeopardizes that opportunity.By Wizard
December 9, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
Someone please explain to me why the Reds cannot be expected to contend for playoffs next year! How many games did they win in 2008? If Harang wins 15 or 16 games instead of losing them, next year—and Cueto and Arroyo have better starts to the season, than last year, and Griffey and Dunn don’t leave runners in scoring position, and someone else knocks them in this year—does that not put us in contention? OK, things always have to fall into place, in order to compete and contend—so why can’t that happen in Cincy?By cincyboy
December 9, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
The Enquirer’s John Fay (who IS in Vegas) quotes Dusty saying Bailey has “a huge upside.” Here we have vintage Hal, taking a leap on a wild rumor. If it proves true (it won’t) he’ll remind us repeatedly that it was “reported first in these pages.” If not, it will just fade away. If Fay swung and missed half as often as McCoy, he’d be skewered on talk radio and his job would be in jeopardy. But pulling this stunt (for years) from 50 miles away gets you a plaque in Cooperstown. True fact.By Mike-Cinci
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Wow! I’m surprised Hal is so much for the Bailey/Dye trade. Hal must really dislike Homer. The Reds need to stick with a plan. You don’t trade a 22 year old top prospect pitcher for an old outfielder unless you think you can seriously contend for a playoff spot. The Reds can’t contend in 2009. They need to build for 2010 and beyond. My impression was the plan was to go young. Adding Dye is counter to that plan. I also don’t see the Sox trading Dye for just Homer Bailey. They would have to get more.By michael
December 9, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Dye would be a quick fix. He is a solid player, but I think he is on the backside of his career, not unlike Griffey when he came to town. He probably wouldn’t make much of a difference in the Reds future plans.By KEVIN
December 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
WOW WHY IS THERE ANY HESITATION ON THIS GET DYE TODAY.HOMER BAILEY IS A JOKE A REAL OVERRATED JOKE.WE CAN MAKE A RUN WITH DYE IN THE LINEUP.;By Amanda
December 8, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Right now they’ve replaced 170 Rbi’s with nothing. Adam Dunn was listed as the 4th best offensive free agent today on Espn. There is nothing better than him in the free agent pool that the reds can afford so this trade would make sense. No team is going to compete with an outfield of Freel and Dickerson as starters.By Y-City Jim
December 8, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
I do not see the Reds contending next year with or without Dye. There are too many pieces to be acquired.By scott
December 8, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Seriously….how can this even be an argument? The Reds are never going to get a Manny Ramirez or Matt Holliday, but if they have a chance to get a guy who can solidify this lineup in Dye (4th in HR in the AL last year, 6th in Slugging%)—even for one year—I take a flyer on him. How long do you clowns wanna wait for a contender? I am done waiting. With this rotation (if Harang can come back and any prod. from #5), the improved bullpen, and Dye, Votto, Bruce, Phillips, and EE in the lineup, is there anyone out there who doesn’t think we can’t contend. If Alonzo comes up next year, move Votto to Left, and you have the corners covered. Bailey couldn’t even win last year in Louisville, and his velocity is closer to 92 last I saw. Big deal! I am so sick of waiting for prospects….anybody remember Brandon Larson or Willie Greene.By Howiej
December 8, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Why would the Cards’ trade Ludwick within the division? I don’t care how good Mr. Duncan thinks he is, Homer Bailey and anyone else in our minor league system for Ryan Ludwick will NEVER happen.By Y-City Jim
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
If Dye was a long term acquisition, I could see the sense of this deal but he is not long term. Fact remains that Bailey throws 95-96 mph. His situation is so similar to Volquez’s. Guess what the Rangers are looking for this offseason? Pitching. Now if someone offers a deal that has the potential to help the Reds over the long term then trade a Bailey. Trade someone else’s risk for our risk.By outanames
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
The Cards have a hot outfield prospect coming up and I was thinking a trade for Ryan Ludwick would make more sense. He may be odd man out at St. Louis.By Tips
December 8, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
I’ve watched Bailey from the Dragons games up, and as far as I’m concerned, I could never see the greatness in him, only his spoiled brattitude. If we can unload him for a player that will contribute to the Reds, then get his sorry self outta here.By Kevin
December 8, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Waaa…Waaaaa….For god sake people if we want to fill holes we have to trade people with upside. Bailey fits the bill. Yes it sucks that he hasnt become our "No.1" but sacrifices have to be made. Personally...I think both GMs are doing nothing more than reading the teams blogs to see what we think before they pull the trigger(or not)because they both have no direction or clue where to turn. Just throwin` a lil bacon on the stove!!By Redfuture
December 8, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Homer has potential that STILL, and I emphasize STILL, has a good chance of being realized. Think “Danny Haren”. Walt must have nightmares about that colossal blunder of a trade for Mulder. If anyone changed their mind on that trade it should have been WJ after one such nightmare.By jakehuey
December 8, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
“one year of Dye would bridge that gap”——there’s the key word, one year of Dye. Please explain the overall significance in bringing in this over-priced, over-aged, over-rated below average outfielder for 1-2 years? How does that solve any problems? Dye is a player you add when your close to contention, this ball club is no where near contention and trading for Dye won’t magically change that.By Mark K
December 8, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Justin in Cincy—Check your own remarks at the door pal, Dye will be 35 at the beginning of next season, not 34. “The prospects that you name are obviously at least one year away from being MLB ready”….I suppose your referring to Chris Dickerson with those intelligent comments, and I don’t see how Drew Stubbs is “obviously” over a year away from what you call “MLB ready”. The only thing “obvious” here is that your clueless when it comes to your own remarks and pathetic in trying to prove congenial points. Again, who is anyone to judge Homer Bailey as “uncoachable”. Stop reading Hal McCoy’s synical advice and read something of truth from time to time.By Justin in Cincy
December 8, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
jakehuey, I wonder if you read anything that you write before you post it. The prospects that you name are obviously at least one year away from being MLB ready, so one year of Dye would bridge that gap. Also, Dye is 34, not the 36 that you arbitrarily chose to list him as. Dye crushes the ball (157 HR in last 4 seasons) and would fit in nicely at the cleanup spot between Votto and Bruce. Dye is also NOT getting worse; his numbers back this up. Bailey is horrible and impossible to coach, and has no option years left. Ship him away while he is worth little, before he is worth literally nothing.By Brad
December 8, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Note to Walt: DON’T DO THIS!!!!! Homer is only 22. I still do not believe the reds will be in the mix for the world series so it makes no sense for this deal. Why trade away a to prospect for a one year player who as Cincinnati history proves, will get hurt.By jakehuey
December 8, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
As horrible as this trade is it’s not even close to how bad the reporting by Hal McCoy is. Man up and confess that you made a BS rumor out of thin air, no wonder you want this deal to fall through. At what level do any aspects of this deal make sense? Why does an organization clearly going younger need to add a 36 year-old outfielder on the back end of his career? Maybe Bailey needs a change of scenery, but who are you to judge that? I’m curious. If Dye ends up a Red, what happens to all this youth movement this organization has been building for? Drew Stubbs, Danny Dorn, Todd Frazier, Chris Dickerson? I also take it Bruce would be moving to left to accommodate for Dye? Didn’t we just rid ourselves of two lowly outfielders well past their prime a few months back? And what would happen to this Votto to left-field, Alonso to 1st idea that’s been kicked around?By Dan
December 8, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
By the way, you know what deal from the past this most reminds me of? 1987 - Dave Parker for Jose Rijo. Parker was 36 and still fairly good. Rijo was 22, inconsistent, didn’t have very good control… We know who won that deal, long-term.By Tony
December 8, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
This would be a great deal for the Reds. Do you guys already forget the impact a vet like Greg Vaughn had on young players on the Reds? I think Dye will do the same. Bailey is done with this team. If you don’t like rumors, then quit looking for them. It’s that simple. It said in his article that it was a “rumor” from a reliable source.By Striker
December 8, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
This is a good trade for both teams, though I believe the White Sox should get 1 more player. This fills an immediate need for a right handed power hitter for the Reds without a long term committment and it’s not that expensive in today’s market. If Dye walks then the Reds get two draft picks, as Dye is destined to be a Type A free agent. So you fill an immediate need and get two draft picks with a fresh start (as Bailey has outworn his welcome). Not bad.By Rob
December 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Not a good deal for the Reds. Just a short-term fix — not what they really need which is a long-term solution. The Reds indicated at the end of the season that they’re finally going to wise up and build with youth. Now, they may trade a young pitcher for a 34-year-old vet. Makes me wonder if Castellini can’t shake the notion that he’s just a player or two away from contention. Far from it. If they trade Bailey, it should be for other young prospects to go along with Votto, Bruce, Cueto, etc.By Brian
December 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
wanderinredsfan … Very well put.. whats even more pathetic is that he reported this with out a direct, and reliable source and consequently mislead many many baseball fans throughout the country, it even made espn.. This also isn’t the first time he has done this to homer, i am sure he doesn’t have a good relationship with him anyway (if anyone does with homer though)By Dan
December 8, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Totally disagree with you, Hal. A team in the Reds position needs as many talented 22-year-olds as possible and as few $11 million 35-year-olds as possible. Homer Bailey, hailed as a potential ace just a couple years ago, for ONE YEAR of Jermaine Dye? Really? I don’t think it’s even close. Even if Homer only turns out to be a #3 or #4 starter type (maybe like an Arroyo?), I would absolutely 5 years of that vs. 1 year of a good but not great right fielder. Starting pitching is the most valuable and most rare commodity in baseball! Homer may not turn out to be the stud we thought, but he absolutely could still be valuable. I want no part of this deal. It smacks of “selling low” on Homer and “buying high” on Dye. I really dislike the deal in a whole lot of ways. I really hope it’s just a bad rumor.By wanderinredsfan
December 8, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Are you serious?!? This is the most bias reporting that I have ever read. No writer should be pushing for a trade, no matter who the player is. What if this doesn’t get done? What have you done, but put a rift between Homer and yourself. Very poor strategy. Not to mention that the one-year rental of Dye is not a good deal for any club’s top pitching prospect, let alone a 22-year old with a #1 type of ceiling.By Monroe
December 8, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
This is great deal … for the White Sox. They get to unload a huge salary for an aging outfielder and take a gamble on Bailey, who they’ll control for the next 4 or 5 years. Somehow, I think chicato knows what they’re doing - and they have had success in the past taking other teams pitching disappointments and turning them around.