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Dayton Daily News education reporter Scott Elliott writes about schools, kids, teaching and learning.
Home > Blogs > Get on the Bus > Archives > 2008 > March > 17 > Entry
Strickland rips Zelman; Wick responds
Gov. Ted Strickland and Susan Zelman
Wow. In a meeting with the Cincinnati Enquirer’s editorial board last week, Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland made plain what he hinted at in his state of the state speech in February — he is not a big fan of state school Superintendent Susan Zelman.
The Enquirer reported that Strickland absolutely ripped Zelman, saying she was not a good manager, had no vision for education and describing her as “an academician, a psychometrician, a statistician.” Ouch.
Strickland said he wants a visionary leader in the mold of Eric Fingerhut over the education department. Fingerhut is a former Democratic legislator that Strickland appointed to lead the state’s system of colleges after the legislature gave him control over Ohio’s universities.
Carl Wick, a state school board member from Centerville, E-mailed me to say he felt Strickland’s comments were very inappropriate and he shared with me a letter he mailed to the governor on Friday. Here is Wick’s response to Strickland’s comments:
March 14, 2008
Governor Ted Strickland
Riffe Center, 30th Floor
77 South High Street
Columbus, Ohio 43215-6108
Dear Governor Strickland,
This letter is an expression of my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of other State Board of Education members.
You made brutally critical comments about Dr. Susan Zelman yesterday to the Cincinnati Enquirer. This greatly disturbs me. This approach is not dignified, virtuous or professional.
Having said this, the State Board of Education, made up of an assortment of Ohio citizens, many of which voted for you including some Rs serving on the board, supports Dr. Zelman. Her last appraisal had 100% board support. There are good reasons for this support. Can we all be wrong?
We know Dr. Zelman has shortcomings, which we all have, but she has been the single catalyst in improving and moving Ohio public education forward. Ohio was in the middle of the states but is now ranked 7th. May I ask, “How do you think we got there?”
I’m certain you’ve carefully calculated and decided to make the comments to the newspaper. Your goal is certainly not to establish collaboration with Dr. Zelman or to establish a relationship with the State Board. This is sad because, in my opinion, it could have been favorably productive for you.
Sincerely,
Carl Wick
Member, Ohio Board of Education
Permalink | Comments (32) | Categories: Schools and Politics
Comments
By Oldprof
March 25, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
OK. Classic, I googled those sources (well, some anyway—the last one didn’t come up, is there a typo?). These sources don’t seem to condemn RR as deeply as you think. Regarding the lack of long-term gains: “it is nothing short of foolhardy to make enormous investments in remedial instruction and then return children to classroom instruction that will not serve to maintain the gains they made in the remedial program.” (Snow, Burns & Griffin). “It is not our goal to discredit Reading Recovery, but as with other programs, outline (sic) its weaknesses to suggest how it may be improved. We believe this should be done with any program that is widely used to address reading difficulties.” Now, you can tell Dr. Zelman all you want about how you interpret that state constitutional provision, but you and I both know that few in Columbus take it seriously. I come away thinking that I, too, can find a lot of web articles in favor of RR and post links here; any program will have its critics and its detractors. But the big point I’m making is this: now that the subject has been broached, other critics of Zelman and the state board are feeling empowered to state their views, and it doesn’t look good for the soon-to-be former state super.By School Supporter (Classic)
March 24, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Oldprof writes, “when can I expect your conversion?” As I stated, I await Governor Strickland’s plan for meeting Ohio’s obligations under Ohio’s Constitution and the International Convention to End all Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD). Perhaps Ohio’s Attorney General can find some State University Education Deans to attest that Strickland’s plan is as “thorough and efficient” as Dr. Zelman’s plan. As for Reading Recovery, Google these: “I keep asking myself was Joe used as a guinea pig” “Reading Recovery is not a cost effective solution” “The cost was estimated to be one-sixth that of Reading Recovery” “Reading Recovery: An Evaluation of Benefits and Costs” Reading Recovery “kids are at the bottom of the heap, most test out as complete non-readers. They guess wildly, they make up stories to go with the pictures” “House Education Committee Staffer Bob Sweet … pleaded with Ms. Clay to use her extensive network of teacher training programs all over the US to help …” These suggest a taxpayer-subsidized human rights violation inconsistent with providing a “thorough and efficient system” of public schools. If these allegations hold, Ohio’s constitution compels Dr. Zelman to abandon Reading Recovery.By Oldprof
March 24, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Hi, School Supporter (classic), yes, I’ve had some harsh assessments of Zelman and our state BOE in general, and I expressed them openly prior to Strickland’s comments. Now today in the DDN editorial page, superintendant Randy Overbeck provides another perspective on the lack of judgment of Zelman (and of the board that employs her). I’ve been saying for years, if there’s a widespread problem in education in Ohio, then it will not be fixed until there are changes at the top. So gratifying when others, some of whom have the power to make changes, come to that realization—when can I expect your conversion?By Mary
March 20, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Laura, if I remember your school district correctly, supposedly many students have been fleeing yours over recent years to attend mine. My education standards are higher than either district. If I were the only parent or citizen with a chip on my shoulder about public education, we probably would not have such an active blog. We are firing the chips off our shoulders as best we can.By Laura
March 20, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Mary, I hardly think taking full advantage of what the public schools offer instead of expecting special treatment constitutes having an “inside track” or “greasing the wheels”. I have no inside track whatsoever. Although my son plays a sport, that doesn’t mean he is likely to get an athletic scholarship. Far from it. He just happens to have a wide variety of interests, of which sports is only one. I don’t defend the “system” as it is. I just don’t think it is as bad as you do. I think in the vast majority of cases, you get what you put into it. You really should look into having that chip removed from your shoulder.By School Supporter (Classic)
March 20, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
My goodness, Oldprof! You’ve trashed Dr. Zelman, board members Wick and Haverkos, and the men of Omega Baptist Church—providing few specifics, other than allegations of suspected intolerance. What communications do you receive documenting their transgressions? (Or do you just hear voices?) What has Strickland said that suggests he can improve ODE? If he’s like most of Ohio’s Democrats, he probably can’t find Ohio’s K-12 Quality Policy, let alone relate it to compliance efforts under ICERD (or his oath of office)—thus pulling the rug from underneath AG Dann. If Governor Strickland asked, could you find a faculty member at a state institution to help him out, or are you representative of your colleagues?By Oldprof
March 19, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
Rich seems to feel qualified to spin my position for me. No, Rich, I am not interested in more educrats. Zelman, after all, is one of them. I am also not interested in a board appointee who says that criticism of Zelman is neither professional, virtuous, or dignified, but who has failed to hold himself and his fellow board members to standards of professionalism or dignity. And I’ll resist the urge to call Wick’s virtue into question, since it’s rather undignified and unprofessional to do so (I guess Wick doesn’t get that).By Mary
March 19, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this
Yes, Laura, you make it perfectly clear that your own poster child is doing well, and you will defend the system as it is. The system is fine as long as your own child gets a full ride scholarship for athletics or academics somewhere, while everyone else pays for the bloated system and takes out huge loans if they can get them these days. Then everything is just fine for your family. However, there are many others who do not have the inside track and the system greased as you do. The system you defend is running schools and our country into the ground and pushing out questionable and greedy “leaders” and workers without answers or knowhow. When things appear to be going so well for you, it is difficult to admit the system is stacked, weak, and corrupt and will ultimately also come back to bite you and yours. Take note of our country’s economic and other perils right now. Can we honestly say our leaders are as smart and prepared as they should or need be. Oh, let’s all go breathe the bad air at the Beijing Olympics and put it all in perspective.By Laura
March 18, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Yes, Mary, we all have heard how pitifully the gifted are treated- ad nauseum. My own son is gifted and does fine in his honors and AP classes- which are provided by the district. He also plays a sport and a musical instrument- both of which we supplement with private lessons/instruction. He took the SAT as a 7th grader and has been inundated with recruitment letters from colleges all around. I have never felt he was short-changed in his education. And, we don’t even live in an “excellent” district. As far as the teacher pay, I make less than ANY college educated person I know- even those with only a bachelor’s compared to my master’s. I know numerous people who don’t even have degrees who make more than I do. Comparing the educational choices Japan makes vs. the US is plain ridiculous. There are too many variables involved. As far as what other countries spend for sports, that, too, cannot be compared. The vast majority of other countries place a high value on having their athletes compete and win in the Olympics and the governments pay for the training and expenses of those athletes. In the US it is paid for by families and sponsors. To say that Japan or other countries don’t waste money on athletes is not true. They just don’t pay for the masses- only those who show significant promise. Which is also how they educate students. THEY decide if a student is worthy of higher education- the rest are relegated to a bare minimum education and training. If I have to choose, I’ll choose the way the US educates-even with all of it’s flaws.By Scott Elliott
March 18, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
I believe Carl Wick is referencing Ohio’s ranking in the annual Quality Counts report, which examines the education systems of the 50 states. There is a reference to this on the ODE website. Quality Counts is done by a research group associated with Education Week. Ohio actually got a B- rating in the latest Quality County report but very few states got good grades. On the most recent NAEP test in 2005, Ohio ranked 10th in the nation in fourth grade math, 18th in fourth grade reading and 16th in reading and 18th in math at eighth grade.By aguyindayton
March 18, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
And the other students that learn realism (some children will be left behind) are ones who try out for drama club, debate club, marching band, choir, science Olympiad, and any of the other clubs or organizations that hold tryouts.By aguyindayton
March 18, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Hmmmm Ohio is ranked 7th?? I have checked via Google and can not find any ranking that has Ohio as high as 7th. Do any of the people representing us as the State Board of Education spend anytime in our schools?? I have been there for 12 years as a Teacher, Special Education Aide, and as an academic volunteer. I have seen it all. The gifted kids who are awesome, the athletes (many of whom are very competent due to their regimentation and accountabilities including time management), and then the coasters. Schools are far too lenient; fearing litigation. Thank God for sports where kids find out that you can be cut, that ability does matter, and there will be some children left behind. I see very little in high school that mirrors the real world; dress, actions, punctuality. One can only assume those that do not learn these lessons in high school will carry the traits on to the work force, college, and (for a short time) the military.By Carl
March 18, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
The idea that teachers are paid what professionals with the same college work and experience are paid is hilarious. The governor appears interested in control over the education process which would include tenure. This is already weakened by the NCLB which Zelman and Company readily accepted by saying how high can we jump rather than why should we jump for this as did many other states. I’m in favor of moving Zelman out and paying her replacement teacher wages to save money over other Columbus bureaucrats’ pay rates. There is more to school than education for the gifted students but the feds and the state government have overmandated for the special ed area with many parents wanting their kids in special ed just, well, just because, even when they’re not really special ed. The real problem is athletics and special treatment and status for coaches sucking money out of schools. Make athletics like it is in Japan, since so many want to compare with other countries. And pay teachers the same as secondary teachers in Japan!!! And give them the same work hours of student contact as Japanese teachers. Let’s hear it for comparison with other countries. But be sure to compare the whole skillet, not just the chicken nugget.By School Supporter (Classic)
March 18, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Carl Wick wrote, “Your goal is certainly not to establish collaboration with Dr. Zelman or to establish a relationship with the State Board.” Governor Strickland and Superintendent Zelman are both Democrats. Dr. Zelman was selected after a nationwide search to lead the Ohio Department of Education. She has delivered where others have cowered. Now Oldprof attacks a board member responsible for Dr. Zelman’s evaluation. Let’s be clear: by attacking Dr. Zelman and her defenders, Ohio Democrats are signaling their intent to replace nonpartisan education policy with policies crafted by education insiders of Oldprof’s mold. Folks, we’re supposed to be protecting schoolchildren from shenanigans like this. If Governor Strickland were wise, it’s not too late to ask Dr. Zelman to help Hillary Clinton formulate a national education platform.By Mary
March 18, 2008 7:15 AM | Link to this
Laura, I have heard those excuses before. Again, despite the spin,the average teacher salary in many communities exceeds that of other professionals with bachelors’ degrees. If you want to talk working conditions, class sizes, discipline, priorities, and principals, you have my attention. Other countries do not invest education money in astroturf, competitive sports, and coaches while neglecting things like gifted education.By Rich
March 17, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
Another aspect of this debate that needs to be considered — if the governor is given total control of education policy in this state, THIS governor won’t always be in office. (Would we even be entertaining this idea if Ken Blackwell were in office right now?) Do we want to return education policy to the political arena even more completely than it is now? We can’t ignore the fact that the need in 1953 to establish an elected state school board and the position of state superintendent existed chiefly BECAUSE education had become a political football back then — do we want to return to those days? Do we want education policy to be subject to 180 degree shifts as often as every four years, when a new governor might take office? I submit the answer to all of these questions ought to be a resounding “NO!”By Oldprof
March 17, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Those who have been around this blog may recall that I have ripped Zelman myself here. Under her leadership, the OBE has committed blunder after blunder. They meet in an out-of-the-way location and consider any public input as insulting. I say Carl Wick ought to do us all a favor and renounce his own amateurish contributions, any change from this buffoonery would be an improvement. Those of you who consider Strickland’s proposals as over-reaching—please provide an alternative to cleaning up the mess at the top of public education in this state—because mess is what it is.By dave
March 17, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
alice, pretty sure Taft is a republican. I do agree that our education “system” is broken. Half the blame on the state, the other on the family. I have plenty of ammo to trash Stricklind, but I’d happily do the same with Taft.By Laura
March 17, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
The reason the US is “getting it’s butt whipped” in scores while outspending other countries is because the US educates the masses- not the select, we discourage those who don’t “succeed” from committing suicide, and like everyone else in the US, teachers here want a lifestyle comparative to other professionals and expect to be paid accordingly.By School Supporter (Classic)
March 17, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Carl Wick is absolutely correct; Governor Strickland gives us all reason to doubt his ability to make non-partisan personnel decisions (and to question his endorsements). The fact is that Dr. Zelman has succeeded at challenges others have dodged (including Hillary Clinton). For her commitment to keeping her oath of office and serving Ohio’s schoolchildren, she has become the target of anti-accountability types throughout the state. OldProf can provide details—we’ll see if he so chooses.By Rich
March 17, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
In reply to Dave’s previous question, if memory serves, the large membership and strange make-up of our state board of education is the direct result of then-Gov. George Voinovich’s attempted takeover of the state board. He chafed at the elected body, which at the time had eleven members (one for every three Senate districts in the state). While he wanted the power to appoint the entire board, the General Assembly granted him the power to appoint an additional 8 members, joining the elected members. Now, I have a question — if a school board is too cumbersome with 19 members, is it any wonder our General Assembly is so ineffective, so often? I mean, there are 33 senators and 99 representatives up there, “doing the public’s business”! How about some pruning up THERE if we want more effective government? Last comment — if a school board is ineffective with 19 members, let’s just consider the Great Oaks career development school district, which serves students from Hamilton County, up I-71 all the way to Washington Court House. It’s the largest JVS district in the country, and has 35 members on its school board. Yes, THIRTY FIVE. More members than our state senate! Believe it or not, it’s true.By ohdave.net
March 17, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Pretty clear that the gov is ushering Zelman out the door. He wants to invest an awful lot of power over education in the executive branch… This should give pause to even his erstwhile supporters (like me). Zelman and Strickland, along with the legislature, have all failed on the critical issue facing Ohio schools: funding. At least Zelman has the excuse of having little power over that issue. By the way, anyone who thinks Strickland is going to be VP has an awful lot of confidence in Hillary defeating Obama. Not going to happen.By Dave
March 17, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
I am a bit off topic, but I notice that the state board has 19 members (8 appointed by governors and the rest elected). Am I the only one to wonder how such a large board can possibly do a decent job?By Rich
March 17, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
I’m getting consistently less and less impressed by Gov. Strickland, although he’s still clearly preferable to our only alternative at that time, Ken Blackwell. I recall that Strickland ran specifically on a platform of reforming K-12 school funding, NOT on his (admittedly good) reforms of the state university system, or on a wholesale takeover of K-12 education. After all, he himself said he’d consider his term as governor a failure if he didn’t fundamentally reform school funding. I’d personally like to see him come through on the funding promise BEFORE moving on to this surprising new target — direct control of public education statewide. Way back in 1953, the voters of Ohio approved this constitutional amendment: “There shall be a state board of education which shall be selected in such manner and for such terms as shall be provided by law. There shall be a superintendent of public instruction, who shall be appointed by the state board of education. The respective powers and duties of the board and of the superintendent shall be prescribed by law.” I don’t read anywhere in those words that the governor has any direct role in the employment of this state superintendent of public instruction. None. Now, if he WANTS such a role, or wants to effectively abolish an independent state board of education, then let him propose this in the only appropriate way — another amendment to the Ohio Constitution. We are, after all, a nation of laws, not of men (or women). Right?By Big Marty
March 17, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
If Zelman really is a strong leader, then why did she keep her trap shut when the state school board was debating the merits of evolution? Ohio is the laughing stock of the nation over that one.By alice
March 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Dave and Painful: Guess what? The kids in MI are just as under-educated as the kids in OH. Not to defend any politician, but it wasn’t Strickland that gave us NCLB and THAT has done more damage to an already poor system. When Bush was governor of TX, TX had one of the lowest rates in education in the country and we elected him president. We as a country do not place a high priority on education and it shows in our elected officials. You obviously are more interested in trashing a democrat than looking for the real cause of the problem to find a real solution.By alice
March 17, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
I’m with you Mary - I don’t know what effect Zelman has had on our schools, but I have a nine year old in an “excellent” school district and I don’t know who rates these schools. I think part of the problem is that NCLB has redefined what excellence means. The standards have been lowered so that the kids seem to score higher. No mistake, I don’t blame the teachers like I blame the federal and state lawmakers. Our education system IS a joke. I have so many complaints I can’t list them all…By Carl
March 17, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Sounds a lot over the top. Have you compared outcomes in abilities with all countries by going there and actually comparing? Or are you reacting to the sweeps week specials from TV272245 with their newswires that the sky is falling because the top students from each country’s schools who took a comparative test determined that 7 other countries did better in math, e.g.? Remember these are the news story types who have people thinking there’s a sexual predator living next door and only if you check our website for a list of them (so we get points for showing you the ads we get paid for) can you save yourself from the evil lurking next door? Personally I think Zelman is an idiot who thinks only in terms of numbers, somewhat like Strickland said. Of course we had 8 years of the education governor Taft who now teaches at UD (???). Maybe he can explain why Zelman is still there and has been rewarded so greatly through her years.By Ernie
March 17, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Politics is all I can say of Gov. Strickalnd. Whether it is a Republican or Democrat they are all the same. The only thing holding our state together is good people praying for these people.By painfultruth
March 17, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Strickland is nothing but a Clinton following bobblhead. What makes anyone think he knows what he’s doing? This is typical of his weak character…By dave
March 17, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
This governor thinks he’s the next Vice President anyhow. His uncanny ability to always make politically motivated and calculated steps infuriates me. Although, he’s better than Taft, which does not say much. Have we no leaders in this State or Country?By Mary
March 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Not exactly sure what Wick or Strickland really mean. I like the idea of a visonary in charge of the schools, but the devil could be in the details. I do not think local or state authorities have been effective since I have been involved in Ohio education issues through my children for over 20 years. Not sure what Wick means about Ohio being “7th”. What does that really mean? Until I know, I am not impressed. Then, I still might not be impressed. I live in an “excellent” school district in a country that is getting its butt whipped in education while outspending all other countries. Our education system in K-12 and college is a joke.