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COMMUNITY DISCUSSION

Privacy versus the right to know

Should names of those who have permits to carry a concealed weapon be public?

By the Dayton Daily News

Editor's note: A panel of media, law enforcement officers, gun-rights advocates and citizens gathered May 5 to discuss the issue. Richard Stock, from the University of Dayton, moderated.

Should permits to carry concealed weapons be open to journalists?

• "It's dangerous when you separate the journalists from the public, because it puts us in yet another venue of distrust because we know something the public doesn't. The whole reason we report on public records is because they're public records." — Julie Weindel, news director WHIO-TV, Channel 7

• "I have not heard anything yet that tells me that the journalists have the right to have this information as opposed to the general public. I would say, either everyone gets it or no one gets it." — Cissy Waldron Seibel, development director for Huber Heights/Riverside

• "There's not been a single newsworthy incident where a law-abiding concealed permit holder has done anything illegal by way of committing violent acts against other citizens." — Jeff Pedro, law enforcement officer and owner of SimTrainer in Moraine

• "We have very little concern about people who have the permit and actually carry the weapon. It's the people who don't that we have concerns about." — Julian Davis, Dayton police director

• "OK, the media has the names, but what are they going to do with the names? Every time there's a car accident, are they going to run back and look it up, 'Uh-oh, he's carrying a concealed weapon?' " — Bob Langham, Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association

 

Should the public have the right to know who has concealed-carry permits?

• "I want to know if someone is carrying a gun into my work. I want to know if someone who is working with my children is carrying a gun. If my child's riding in a car with someone, I want to know if they have a gun. I have a right to know that just as much as they have a right to carry the gun." — Terri Clary, Miamisburg, computer programmer

• "If information is public, it'd be a mark — 'they have guns.' They'll be in my house looking for the guns. That's why I feel that record should be with the police but not public to anybody, because there are people ... who will take advantage of that, just like identity theft. I don't want people to know too much about me." — Bob Sharpe, CPA and producer of Channel 23's We the People

• "What I'm hearing is, people who want to be able to carry and not have that information public, they're talking about the vulnerability that they experience having that information be published. But in my perspective, I don't know how you can compare the vulnerability that someone might break into my house knowing I have a gun versus the vulnerability of the person who does not have the gun and who does not know that you have the gun in a confrontation." — Patti Schwarztrauber, executive director of Artemis Center

• "The open-records law is for the government, so we understand what the government is about, but what I see here is a Pandora's box of information that's about me as a citizen. And if it's here, what's next? Could it be medical records next?" — John Graham, director, Koinonia House for men released from prison

• "It's people putting hurdles in front of me, of saying I can't have that information that makes me want to know why I can't have that information. I think what responsible news people bring to the table is an overall general discussion and questioning about ... what do we have the right to know? To say to some folks, leave it to the federal government or leave it to a law enforcement agency to have this information and keep it privately, that doesn't make me comfortable." — Laura Rench, Jefferson Twp. community activist

• "There is a feeling that the fact that someone has a gun permit that this is inherently a private thing. In fact, the Legislature in its wisdom decided in order to carry a gun on your person you had to get a permit. There are all sorts of permit processes that are ordinarily public records. The anomaly here is the notion that this kind of permit shouldn't be public record." — Jeff Bruce, editor, Dayton Daily News

 

If they remain open to the media only, how can the Dayton Daily News use this information wisely?

• Be a watchdog. "Open records are for the citizens and the media to keep an eye on what the government is doing. Somebody has to make sure the government is doing the right thing when it comes to whom they're issuing the licenses to." — Gary Daniels, American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio

• Use it for research. "After a few years, if we have this data, we have crime records against which we can cross match this data, we can perhaps learn some things about whether or not the enactment of the concealed carry law actually worked towards its intended purposes. For instance, how many times did someone actually save their life or the lives of someone else because they had a gun? We won't know unless we have that information." — Jeff Bruce

• Educate the public. "You don't use this as a weapon; you use it as a tool to inform, finding trends. If it is going to be open only to journalists, then I think (the public) should trust that we're going to use it responsibly." — Kristin McAllister, reporter, Dayton Daily News

 

How well has the Dayton Daily News and media in general covered the concealed-carry issue?

• "I think they've overcovered it. I think they've made it an issue that is not an issue. The concealed-carry law is a very simple law designed to allow the public of Ohio to defend themselves from altercations. So why is it a big story?" — Bill Jarrett, owner, Vandalia Tactical

• "In my opinion, the media in general have a distinct bias against guns in their reporting. They don't report when crime is avoided by display of a firearm — they don't report it because that's non-news. That's one of the problems with the media. The other is the sensationalism that seems to be needed to make the ratings, to sell the papers — the blood in the streets, the shoot 'em out at Dodge City and OK Corral, and 'Oh my God, every road-rage incident is going to result in a shootout at Fifth and Main.'" — Larry S. Moore, Ohioans for Concealed Carry

 

What's the balance between an individual's right to privacy and the public's right to know as it relates to this issue?

• "I have a real concern that law-abiding people who have no criminal record who have a permit have the position of having their names published, but when a convicted felon who returns to the community ... that person's right to privacy is very great. I think that's incredulous." — Bob Mullins, public affairs director for ADAMHS board, Montgomery County

"I do think the Internet has changed our feelings about these kinds of issues. You think of the news media, 'Oh, they're always going to be for openness,' and generally speaking that's where we come from, because we believe openness and transparency in government leads to better government. But these are real issues, and I think the ready access to this kind of data is probably disquieting to everyone." — Jeff Bruce

 

What can we learn from the concealed-weapon issue that we can apply to other privacy vs. right-to-know issues?

• "I have this fear that we CCW permit holders have created a situation whereby we're making the rest of the population think we have something to hide. We're the most honest and civilized of the society, we passed all the background checks, we're law-abiding, we're taking training, we know how to safely use guns. But I have this fear that we've created a climate insinuating we have something to hide, and we don't." — Bill Jarrett

• "My biggest concern is the journalists. It's a can of worms that we're opening and I'm not sure if we need to. I want that list, I want to access it when I need to, I'm not sure I need my newspaper to do it. And while you're responsible journalists here, out there are some that are not. And it's that general mistrust the public has, not because of the responsible journalists, but for the irresponsible ones we keep seeing." — Cissy Waldron Seibel

• "There's a pretext that the newspaper person or person with radio or TV is going to tell you the truth. But it just doesn't happen. A lot of times, it's their personal opinion, a conjecture, something that's not correct." — Cy Byrd, Ohio Gun Collectors Association

• "I'm concerned about, Who is the media? What if hospitals say, 'You know, we don't think guns are a good thing, so we're going to check and see if any of our nurses have gun permits.' Or we're an insurance company and we're going to start rating or profiling people if they have a permit or gun at home." — State Rep. Tom Brinkman, R-Cincinnati

• "I'm sort of surprised that there seems to be this level of comfort on the part of the concealed-carry advocates that it's perfectly fine for law enforcement to have these records, but for the general public not to. The overarching issue is, 'Do we believe in having an open society in which the public has the maximum opportunity to know about what government's doing?' To me, that's the cornerstone of democracy." — Jeff Bruce

• "I carry virtually every day, every place I go, every moment I possibly can. And when I get up in the morning, I pray to God I don't have to use it. The people you need to be worried about are the people who are out there on the street, doing drugs, doing gangs, carrying guns without licenses. My basic view is quite simple. I believe that in a free society that we must always protect the freedom and rights of an individual. That's the founding premise of our nation." — Larry Moore