2008 Middletown homecoming
Crash at Miller Lane Olive Garden
Area H.S. football: Week 8
Reds fans torn on possible spring move to desert
Vacationers like seeing Reds in Florida, but team may feel more welcome in Arizona.
> Which spring training site should the Reds choose?
Sunday, February 10, 2008
It isn't yet written in the Arizona sand, but the footprints are there.
The Cincinnati Reds and the City of Goodyear, Ariz., are in the midst of an exclusive negotiating period that seems destined to pave the way for the Reds to move their spring training site from Sarasota, Fla., to Goodyear for 2010.
Extras
How tough is this decision?
This is what Reds Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Doug Healy says: "Sarasota is the ugly stepsister, and Goodyear is the buxom blonde."
The Reds have trained in Sarasota for 10 years, and their lease agreement expires after this season. The team wanted to remain in Florida, and a new $54 million facility was proposed.
If it was built, the Reds promised to sign a 30-year lease. The Reds were to commit $10 million to the deal, with the City of Sarasota, Sarasota County and the state of Florida providing the rest.
But the city's $16 million share evaporated when voters recently rejected a bond issue by 254 votes.
"That was the straw that didn't break the camel's back, but gave it a backache," Healy said. "They want us in Florida, but they don't want us when it comes to financing."
Sarasota came back with another plan — a $41 million renovation of the City of Sarasota Sports Complex, where the Reds train. This time it was the county commissioners who balked.
And the Reds weren't pleased. They were expected to contribute the same amount of money for a shaved-down plan.
"The new plan was to cost the Reds the same money," Healy said. "We were paying for a Cadillac and now they were offering us a Prius. We exhausted every avenue and looked under every rock."
Florida fans not happy
Studies reveal that the Reds and their fans injected $30 million into the Sarasota economy during the six weeks of spring training.
And that's where Goodyear comes in.
The Arizona city wants the Reds to share a new $75 million complex with the Cleveland Indians. The two Ohio teams would share a stadium and each would have their own practice fields and clubhouses.
"Goodyear is Kettering with better weather and scorpions," Healy said. "Goodyear wants to be a baseball city, and they are building a baseball palace. It will be a Taj Mahal, a temple to baseball."
Healy said the Reds are concerned about fans who flock from Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana during March as part of a baseball vacation. He said the Reds averaged about 5,500 fans per game in Sarasota and believes they'll average that many, or more, in the 8,500-seat Goodyear park.
And what do the fans believe?
They are sad that the Reds are abandoning Sarasota and its beautiful beaches for the Sonora desert, but most understand that Sarasota is pushing them out of the city, pointing west.
Daytonian Judy Evans believes Florida is preferable, but doesn't blame the Reds for an evacuation.
"Those who own property (in Sarasota) should have leaned on people who own property full-time to keep the Reds there," Evans said. "The vote went down by just 250 votes, and the negative reaction by the county commission to the renovation of the Reds' training facility makes the blame fall squarely on the shoulders of those who live in that area who think the Reds are expendable. They'll see what the economic impact is when the Reds leave."
Jerry Steineman is a transplanted Daytonian now living in Venice, Fla., 20 miles south of Sarasota.
"I've followed the Reds down here since 1989 when they were in Plant City and went to games in Sarasota, Bradenton and Port Charlotte. I thought they'd be here the rest of my ... life," he said.
"The real estate market tanked and everything here went to hell both politically and economically," he added. "We diehard fans suffer, and I fear Sarasota will suffer more in the long run."
Ansonia's Ted Liette has been a Reds fan for 40 years and looked forward in his retirement years to traveling to Florida to watch his team get ready for the season.
"I'm just at the point where I can afford it and have the time to go to Florida and attend as many games as possible," he said. "We have friends and relatives in Florida, as do so many people in Ohio. I don't hear that about Arizona. You'd be surprised how many Ohio license plates you see in Florida. I know it is all about dollars and cents, but what about all the dollars being left in Florida? Most retirees and snowbirds from Ohio who go to Florida are longtime followers of the Cincinnati Reds.
"I have dreamed and waited all my life to go to Florida to see the Reds," Liette said. "I guess I'll have to save harder and wait longer and make it to Arizona eventually."
The view in Arizona
Maybe you have to be there to appreciate what Goodyear offers.
Glen Sandlin was born in Hamilton and stayed until he was 45, then lived in Florida on the Gulf Coast (where Sarasota is located) for four years. Now he lives in a golf course community in Goodyear.
"I'm five miles from the new site of the Goodyear facility," he said. "The Cleveland Indians and one other lucky team will be there, hopefully the Reds. The facility will be a trend-setter for the future and I hope Reds fans don't deny themselves the privilege of experiencing this beautiful location.
"I remain mystified that so many people in the Midwest can only think of Florida," he said. "I'm fond of Florida, but there is so much more to see of the world. Goodyear is an hour or two in any direction from things like Sedona, the Grand Canyon, Tucson, mountains, lakes, streams. I see Ohio tags every time I drive in the Phoenix area."
Former Centerville resident Mark Gollnitz is now a Goodyear resident and extols its virtues.
"I've been a Reds fans for 48 years, and I'd like to tell fans not to get depressed about a move to the desert. It's a growing community with a lot to see and do besides spring ball. I moved from Orlando two years ago and I know everybody loves water, beaches and Disney World," he said.
"The West is a whole new ballgame with a complete change of scenery and weather," he said. "Oh, yeah. The weather. Guess what? During the spring, the temperature is in the 70s and 80s and it never rains. Sand? There are plenty of swimming pools to take back that spring training tan."
Contact this reporter
at hmccoy@DaytonDailyNews.com.
Reds in spring
The Cincinnati Reds have held spring training in 30 different cities, starting with Hot Springs, Ark., in 1891. Here are the club's five most recent spring destinations:
1998-present: Sarasota, Fla.
1988-97: Plant City, Fla.
1946-87: Tampa, Fla.
1943-45: Bloomington, Ind.
1931-42: Tampa, Fla.
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By Cait
February 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
I will give AZ a shot - lots of new things to see. But I think I will still prefer Fla’s Gulf Coast where I’ve gotten to spring training every 2-3 years. With the tourist money baseball fans bring to the city, I can’t believe the city is tossing the Reds aside. However, you reap what you sow. It wasn’t that long ago that the Reds talked Plant City into a big investment in a facility for the team. Then the team walked away to Sarasota, leaving Plant City holding the debt.
By Ray McNab
February 10, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
I will not be spending a week’s vacation in Sarasota, FL after this year. I am a life long Reds fan and love Sarasota and its quality of life. Living in NJ, I had entertained the idea of one day retiring to the Sarasota area, for many reasons, one of them, watching the Reds every spring. I have spent many winter vacations in Sarasota, just to watch my Reds. That will end and I am really disappointed with the ownership of the Reds and the city of Sarasota. All good things must end….
By sonoranrat70
February 10, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
As a transplanted Daytonian and life long Reds fan, I am pleased they are coming to the desert. Golf in the morning, Reds in the afternoon.
Family fare: Red Rock and Oak Creek Canyon near Sedona, maybe some skiing at Snowbowl, a day trip to Prescott’s Whiskey Row, heading south, Rocky Point and Nogales and finally THE CANYON. Who said the desert has nothing to offer?
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By Robert
February 10, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
If the Reds are going to stay in Florida the most likely place for them would be Vero Beach after the Dodges leave and go out west. Bottom line is Sarasota AKA, “Wrinkle City,” does not want the Reds or any other team there. The $30 million impact the Reds have on the city can be picked up by those 254 voters who shot us down and the County Commissioners who have a better plan to subsidize the loss. I see as may Ohio Tags out here in Arizona as I did in Florida the last 30 years I was there.
By george
February 10, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
It may make more sense for the club to be in Arizona, and they may even have bigger crowds. However, many die hard Reds fans like me will not go to Arizona on our spring breaks. Arizona has mountains and beyond that just sand, sand, sand, cactus, and sand. Fewer Reds fans will be in the stands at Arizona and the locals will pick up the slack, I guess. I’ll continue to go to Florida and go to the beaches. Half the flight time (and cheaper), driveable if that’s what one chooses. If I want to see spring training, I suppose I’ll just have to pay my ticket money to the Phillies in Clearwater.
By Lora
February 10, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Although I understand why the Reds want to move, I also know that it will put an end to our annual Spring Training trips (and those of many other Ohio fans without unlimited checkbooks). Say what you will about the natural beauty of the desert, but the fact is that Florida offers more to do for FAMILIES with varied interests and Florida is more AFFORDABLE because we can drive rather than fly and have to rent one (or two) cars. Sad that — once again — money means more than loyal fans.
By tg
February 10, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Did John Allen even look at any other Florida location? I wish Castellini had not given this job to someone from the old regime.
By Tom
February 10, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Sure hate to see the Reds leave Florida. I can afford to drive from my home in Virginia for some spring training fun and sunshine. Going all the way to Arizona is out of the question. Sarasota is shooting itself in the foot, and the Reds don’t give a damn about the average Joe Fan anyway. Tom in Roanoke
By boxter
February 10, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Who cares? Take their 70 win loser team and train wherever they want. They could train in any state and it won’t help them. It is all about money and the sheep errrrr fans will still buy over priced tickets to watch them lose again. Their next move should be out of Cincinnati period.
By serge storms
February 10, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
good riddance as a long time Sarasota resident I’ll be glad to see them go
where do y’all get off emailing OUR county commission to tell them how to spend OUR money
you want the reds to stay in Sarasota , step up to the plate and float a bond issue on YOUR property and buy them a stadium so you can come visit
By JOE Kennedy
February 10, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
LOOK AT VERO BEACH, THE DODGERS ARE LEAVING THIS YEAR. NICE TRAINING FACILITY, NICE AREA FOR BUCKEYES, LOTS OF RESTAURANTS, MOTELS AND CAMPING, + THE OCEAN AND THE FAMOUS “SEBASTIAN INLET” STATE PARK.
By JOE Kennedy
February 10, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
LOOK AT VERO BEACH, THE DODGERS ARE LEAVING THIS YEAR. NICE TRAINING FACILITY, NICE AREA FOR BUCKEYES, LOTS OF RESTAURANTS, MOTELS AND CAMPING, + THE OCEAN AND THE FAMOUS “SEBASTIAN INLET” STATE PARK.
By Ed
February 10, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
CFO Doug Healy seems to really have a great sense of the situation. His analogies are deep and insightful…”stepsister …to blonde,…Cadillac…to Prius.” Doug, are you comparing the front office of the Reds to the rest of MLB?
By steve
February 10, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
DanO, great post!! Can you identify which of the Sarasota County Commissioners are undecided? I think Staub is the only sure vote for keeping the Reds in Sarasota. Thanks…
By DanO
February 10, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Anyone that wants to let the Sarasota County Commission know how their support of the Reds affects Sarasota’s economy can send them an email before their Feb. 12 meeting. This may be your last chance to affect the outcome of this and keep the Reds in Sarasota:
Paul Mercier District 1 pmercier@scgov.net
Joe Barbetta District 2 jbarbett@scgov.net
Shannon Staub District 3 sstaub@scgov.net
Nora Patterson District 4 npatters@scgov.net
Jon Thaxton District 5 jthaxton@scgov.net
By stanley clarke wyllie
February 10, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this
While I would prefer the Reds to stay in Florida, as I might be able to visit them, I can see why they wish to go to Arizonia—they are closer to the prison.