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Dayton Daily News education reporter Scott Elliott writes about schools, kids, teaching and learning.
Home > Blogs > Get on the Bus > Archives > 2008 > April > 23 > Entry
More perspective on sick days
I’m in Chicago today at a seminar run by the Hechinger Institute for Education and the Media, a fabulous non-profit housed at Columbia University that helps reporters better understand issues in education. Tomorrow I will be at the annual conference of the Education Writers Association, an national organization of journalists who cover education.
Since the Hechinger seminar is focused on teacher union contract negotiations, I took the opportunity today to ask about sick days.
As you may know, we’ve had a little discussion here about teacher sick days and whether Dayton Public Schools’ average over the past few years of 6.5 to 7.9 sick days per person is typical or above average.
In the comments, several teachers have made the case that those averages are to be expected. The arguments have ranged from “sick kids make sick teachers” to “teachers are over worked” to “teacher sick time can’t be compared to non-teachers.”
In the course of discussion, Cincinnati teachers union President Tim Kraus vouched for the third point.
Kraus gave an example. He said his union is often attacked for being greedy because of a contract provision that allows teachers to be paid out a full day’s pay for every two unused sick days. So veteran teachers who retire often get a big cash payout if they stockpiled a lot of unused sick days.
But Kraus pointed out that the provision allowing that ended up in the union’s contract as a swap. Teachers got the sick leave payout in exchange for taking small raises for several years. So Kraus argues it is not a matter of greed. It was a tradeoff that worked for both sides.
His point was this — depending on what was negotiated and why, sick time can mean different things in different contracts. And what is routine in district might seem extreme in others.
So back to Dayton, how good is its sick time provision? It looks pretty good on paper.
Dayton allows teachers to accumulate or take up to 15 sick days a year. Using this tool I found only seven of the 50 biggest districts in the country allow as many as 15 sick days a year. Most give nine or 10. Some give as few as five or six sick days a year.
Meanwhile, looking at Dayton’s contract (you can find it here), the sick provision otherwise appears pretty routine. I did note that the language does not list “mental health” days off as a permitted use for sick time, as some teachers argued in the comments.
I’ve got some more poking around to do on this issue and then I’ll report back.
Permalink | Comments (8) | Post your comment | Categories: Dayton Public Schools
Comments
By crystal
May 2, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
I agree with Laura and, Socialwrkr. This should go for the teachers and, the students if your sick stay home. Use the sick days thats what they are there for. Going to school sick makes me very mad. I don’t send my kid sick and, don’t think that any other parent should either just to use the school as a baby sitting service it’s sad. The nurses for each school should do there job and, check in on the classes to make sure sick kids are not being sent. The teachers and, students.I can’t believe that teachers are going to school anyways just to stock pile their sick days to cash in. Hearing that makes me sick! These are our children!I do believe that teachers are under paid and, in my opinion they should be paid the most they are the ones who are caring for and, teaching our children.With that said they are not and, its sad. The teachers I had growing up were not in the field for the money. They were there because they love kids and, if you don’t have that passion then you shouldn’t be there. It takes a special person to be a teacher. You have to have a heart full of love! Not one full of greed for money. If money is what you want then you should be in another field. Some of the other comments on here a also true the feild will have a drop in teachers. Mabey when that happens they will finally realize that teachers should be paid more and, change. It don’t make since that the board of education and, superintendent get paid more when they or not directly dealing with our children.Just a little something from a parent!By Laura
April 29, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Re: the prior knowledge of a jobs “negatives”. This really got me thinking. Does that also apply to firefighters and police officers, ect.? Should they just “accept” that there are dangers to their jobs and not express concerns? Just wondering.By Laura
April 28, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Let’s see if I understand the position of some people. If people don’t WANT to accept the negative aspects of a job, in this case exposure to illness or low pay (perceived or otherwise), we shouldn’t go into that profession. What happens when everyone takes that advice? No one goes into that field. So we then have a huge deficit of workers in the field. What a sad attitude. Reminds me of the slogan from years ago: America- love it or leave it. What a sad state this country would be in if everyone had taken that attitude about everything that was wrong in the U.S. Angie, you sound very bitter and as if you have no real experience of what the real teaching experience is. Maybe you should become more informed. As a teacher I get 1 (ONE) personal day per year. If I am out for more than two days I have to get a doctor’s note to prove I was sick, even if my principal saw me and knows I was truly sick. As to taking off whenever I want- that’s a joke. I have been “advised” to schedule non- emergency surgeries for the summer even though I had the sick leave available. Non-emergency may mean that a person will be in significant discomfort or that the condition will worsen if not dealt with in a timely manner. I have known principals to reassign teachers to unwanted grade levels because the teacher was “absent too much.” Not because they didn’t do their job, but so the teacher would ask for a transfer to a different building. We aren’t talking about every Friday or Monday syndrome. Legitimate absences. No, we can not take off whenever we want. As for doctors and nurses taking off when they become sick from exposure- no one publicly criticizes them for it- do they?By angie
April 27, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Forget the comment that teachers are on the low-end of the pay scale. They certainly are not! They make plenty of money and they also get plenty of sick and personal days. If they need to take off they can. And remember, they chose their profession just like the rest of us. If they get exposed to ilnesses from the kids, then then they have to live with it, just as drs. nurses, day care workers and any others who work with the public.By Calvin
April 24, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
The 1.25 sick days per month is state law; Dayton doesn’t “allow” them to do so. I am amused at the people who want to determine when a teacher should go to school sick or stay home. We’re back to the “teachers are low on the employment scale” and should be told by those with higher knowledge of the real work world how things really should operate in the education world. For years the business types have wanted to “run schools like businesses.” Look at the business world today: $118 oil, recession, plants and businesses gone from Dayton. And they gave us those charter schools that would fix everything with students that the public schools weren’t capable of fixing.By Socialwrkr
April 24, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
First off, I am not a teacher. But, I also worked with children and understand the germ factor! I’m also the type of person who if someone a block away has a cold, I end up with pneumonia. At one previous job, we got 10 sick days and at the end of the year, those would be paid out if not used. There were people who would come to work very sick, in order to get that money. But their illness made me so sick, I couldn’t work and I refuse to share my germs. So I do understand the comments by the Dayton teachers and honestly don’t think 6-9 sick days a year is abusing or misusing their time. And the reality is, a job won’t take of us, you have to take care of yourself.By Barb
April 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
So teachers are using less than 50% of their sick leave this year. I would still like to see the comparisons to other districts both comparable and non-comparable. And am I to understand they would lose it in the end if they did not use it?By Laura
April 23, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
The term “mental health” sick leave is old. Very old. I remember principals endorsing/encouragingit when I first began teaching nearly 30 years ago. Now, in most cases, you’d better not even hint that you are actually taking a “mental health” day. As I said before, I had to waste insurance money going to the urgent care for something the doctor there said takes up to a week to resolve. I have had to go to the doctor or urgent care numerous times just to satisfy the administration that I was really sick. I have been off sick many times with no sick leave to be paid from. Some people are just more prone to illness than others. I also have had the unfortunate situation of having more surgeries than I want to think about. Not everyone abuses the sick leave. In fact, my experience has been that there are a lot of people who should be using MORE sick leave, instead of stock piling it, so that they don’t pass on the flu or whatever else they are carrying around.