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StumbleuponJocketty begins molding Reds in his image
Do you think General Manager Walt Jocketty has a plan to rebuild the Reds?
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
When they design the 2009 Cincinnati Reds uniforms, they should replace the wishbone 'C' on the chest with a picture of Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty.
It is going to be his team, a team in his image.
That became evident over the past few days when he traded Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn and designated David Ross for assignment. Believe me, there is more to come.
By disposing of the two most visible franchise faces — Griffey and Dunn — Jocketty is cleansing eight years of losing spirits. It is his own TV reality show: Starting Over.
Dunn was sent to the Arizona Diamondbacks on Monday, Aug. 11, for minor-league pitcher Dallas Buck and two players to be named later.
Now what? Well, the 2008 season has been a quagmire for months and it will only get worse because Jocketty didn't get anything in return for this year's team. The white flag couldn't be bigger or whiter.
Jocketty is gathering low-level minor-league players, which sniffs of another long rebuilding process and another tenure that says, "Be patient." Most fans ran out of patience years ago.
The upcoming offseason shall tell the tale. If the Reds go after big-ticket free agents, then maybe they are living up to what owner Bob Castellini said when he fired GM Wayne Krivsky early this season: "We will not lose anymore."
Well, they kept losing. And losing and losing and losing. Lately they've played with the interest a dog has in cabbage and broccoli. Sniff, sniff — not interested.
With the losing comes disinterest at the gate. How many camouflage shirts, lunch boxes, ladies ball caps, build-a-bears and $1 hot dogs can they offer to lure people in to see ... what?
The break-even point this year was 2.4 million fans. That isn't going to happen. So will the Reds have money to pursue top-shelf free agents, compete with the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs and Los Angeles Dodgers?
That's doubtful. That means a long rebuilding process. Again. Patience, please.
It is for sure that the Reds put together eight straight losing seasons with Griffey and Dunn in the lineup, but blaming them for it is like blaming the weather man for the rain.
They didn't win with them, so dump them. But who replaces about 70 home runs and about 180 RBIs every year? They are left with Edwin Encarnacion (unless they trade him, too), who is even less consistent than Dunn, and Brandon Phillips, a guy batting fourth who shouldn't be batting fourth.
They have young players like Joey Votto and Jay Bruce, but they need more. Much more. They have what most thought would be a glorious pitching staff in Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto and Homer Bailey. How'd that turn out?
Jocketty stayed quiet and in the background for nearly three months. Now he has thrust his will into the picture. For those with season tickets, all one can say for the rest of the year is, "Hang with 'em and good luck."
And to Jocketty? While searching for players this offseason, find your best photo for the team's jerseys. It's your baby.
Dunn's bombs
Adam Dunn has hit 270 home runs since arriving in the major leagues with the Cincinnati Reds in 2001. Here's where he stands on the Reds' all-time list:
1. Johnny Bench (1967-83) . . . 389
2. Frank Robinson (1956-65) . . . 324
3. Tony Perez
(1964-76), (1984-86) . . . 287
4. Adam Dunn (2001-08) . . . 270
5. Ted Kluszewski (1947-57) . . . 251
Among best in MLB
In the last six seasons, two major leaguers have hit more home runs than Dunn. Homers from 2003 to present:
Alex Rodriguez, Yankees . . . 246
Albert Pujols, Cardinals . . . 235
Adam Dunn, Reds . . . 225
David Ortiz, Red Sox . . . 222
Comments
By Craig
August 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Who wins every year? The team with the best starting pitching! HELLO! Has anybody watched the MLB playoffs, in umm, the last 20 yrs? Cut the fat, send em packing, and bring in some pitchers from free agency. The way things have been, I wouldn’t even care if we didn’t sign one bat this offseason. Go get pitchers!!
By JW
August 13, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Time to move on. I think Adam Dunn is mostly about Adam Dunn and Griffey Jr. mostly about himself also. Neither of these guys had it in their gut to turn the Reds into winners. I don’t care who plays—I’ll watch and buy tickets if they have fire. I think finally we might get some emotion and intensity on the field.
By George
August 13, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
I was dismayed at the Dunn trade. Two players to be named later? Sheesh. But, the Reds were not going to resign Dunn for the millions his agent would ask for. Dunn has about 15-20 RBIs that haven’t come via the homerun. Thirty-two RBIs (about 1/2) were from driving himself in. His LIFETIME batting average with RISP is .200! He went over 2 years without a sac fly to drive in a runner from third. And when given left field he couldn’t adjust. They won’t replace his HRs but they didn’t win with them
By CAREY, U.S. ARMY
August 13, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Those who scuff at Dunn’s numbers and LOST production have NOTHING solid to offer in response.
REDS WILL LOSE, Again and again…
Nice going, Management.
By CAREY, U.S. ARMY
August 13, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Those who scuff at Dunn’s numbers and LOST production have NOTHING solid to offer in response.
REDS WILL LOSE, Again and again…
Nice going, Management.
By CAREY, U.S. ARMY
August 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Those who scuff at Dunn’s numbers and LOST production have NOTHING solid to offer in response.
REDS WILL LOSE
By CAREY, U.S. ARMY
August 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Those who scuff at Dunn’s numbers and LOST production have NOTHING solid to offer in response.
REDS WILL LOSE
By CAREY, U.S. ARMY
August 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Those who scuff at Dunn’s numbers and LOST production have NOTHING solid to offer in response.
REDS WILL LOSE
By Shelby
August 13, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
When are you gonna quit lying to us and start making some moves to better this team? First Dusty Baker and then firing the G.M., now you get rid of Griffey and Dunn for a handful of unproven players, so now you have some money, but no one to draw in tickets which means the team did not make any cash. What happened to the pride and integrity in this organization?
By Shelby
August 13, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Here we go again, getting nothing in return for our best offensive threat, Ol’ Bob said we will not lose anymore and here we are in last place trading off our good players for nothing. This organization is lacking some integrity at the moment and it makes me sick, I have been a Reds fan since I was six years old, I have been schooled on all the old timers and know my team history and the pride it once had. Where has that all gone. You want fans you better start winning other than best draft pick
By Charlie C
August 12, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Walt did the same thing at STL and they got a WS out of it didn’t they. HR’s? What about Bruce and Votto? Might not get 40Hr from each, but I’ll settle for 30 and 100 RBI/RUNS each. Then there are the singles turned into doubles, the stolen bases these guys can snag…and oh yeah, those fly balls that were being missed will be caught. Bring on the youth. Play small ball and use the improved defense to complement the pitching, which can only get better from where we’re at now!
By ROGER DOTY
August 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
overheard by a nat.enquirer reporter in owner bob’s office a few days ago: WALT: BOB, I’M GOING TO RESIGN AT THE END OF THE
SEASON, BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING YOU GET NOTHING.THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IN BILL BAVASI TO TAKE OVER.TO BE HONEST WITH YOU--THIS TEAM IS HOPELESS.PLUS I FILL BAD ABOUT YOU HAVING TO PAY COCONUT 36 MIL FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS. BOB: THAT'S OK WALT. I'M ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW WITH CUBAN. OFFERING HIM A BETTER DEAL THAN THE CUBS ARE OFERING HIM,.
By Randy Palmer
August 12, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
To compare Dunn with Ruth, Williams, and Mantle just shows how unsmart (stupid) so many Reds fans are. Ruth and Williams had about a .500 OBP and both hit more .340 for their careers. Williams struck out about 750 times in his career and walked more than 2000 times. Mantle was a five tool (not 1 tool) player. He was like Josh Hamilton with much more speed. Hit the ball as far or farther in games as Hamilton did in the all-star game HR competition. Reds need speed and defense. Dunn has neither.
By Cooperider
August 12, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe you people are scoffing at Dunn’s 40hr’s/100runs/100rbi/100walks! You think Dunn’s strikeouts and bad defense negated all that? He averaged 10 errors a season. He also made some bad plays that didn’t count as errors… but you think a guy with maybe 5 less errors will replace Dunn’s 40hr’s/100runs/100rbi/100walks? Ridiculous. Those offensive #’s are hard to come by. Who cares about the strikeouts. He produced. Who will fill that void? At least get some value in return for Dunn!
By Ed'sReds
August 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Our problem is these pitchers who are supposed to save us the headaches we’ve had for so long. What happened to Homer? Basham? Should I go on? By trading away the 2 biggest faces we’ve done nothing to delay the fans’ mistrust.Why not deal Edwin,Bronson,and Freel too while we’re at it.We’re starting to turn into the Pirates,trading away our best players for unproven minor leaguers.I miss the days of Davis, Dibble,Larkin,Oliver,Browning,Sabo, ect.Just think those guys beat McGwire and Canseco.
By Ed'sReds
August 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Our problem is these pitchers who are supposed to save us the headaches we’ve had for so long. What happened to Homer? Basham? Should I go on? By trading away the 2 biggest faces we’ve done nothing to delay the fans’ mistrust.Why not deal Edwin,Bronson,and Freel too while we’re at it.We’re starting to turn into the Pirates,trading away our best players for unproven minor leaguers.I miss the days of Davis, Dibble,Larkin,Oliver,Browning,Sabo, ect.Just think those guys beat McGwire and Canseco.
By Ed'sReds
August 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Our problem is these pitchers who are supposed to save us the headaches we’ve had for so long. What happened to Homer? Basham? Should I go on? By trading away the 2 biggest faces we’ve done nothing to delay the fans’ mistrust.Why not deal Edwin,Bronson,and Freel too while we’re at it.We’re starting to turn into the Pirates,trading away our best players for unproven minor leaguers.I miss the days of Davis, Dibble,Larkin,Oliver,Browning,Sabo, ect.Just think those guys beat McGwire and Canseco.
By Old Kiser Coach
August 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Pole has developed the pitchers. Jocoby has helped the batters. Baker makes great moves. The Brennamans never make mistakes when they broadcast the games. It is a thrill to hear “Ask Marty”. If you believe all of that then you believe getting rid of Dunn was a good move like getting rid of O’Neill was.
By Mike Alexander
August 12, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget the thrid outfielder traded this season Al All-Star outfielder Josh Hamilton.I can see taking nothing for high priced players but isn’t that what the Cubs have been doing for over a hundred years. Lets get rid of the high price Manager Mr Loser and his goffy pitching coach. You take a 28 yr old great Homerun hitter and replace him with a 26 year old who has never shown that much promise. Great Job Walt Hey I got 20 $1.00 bills how about a trade for 20 $100.00 bills.
By cincybob
August 12, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
To all you out there complaining about losing Dunn’s “numbers” - the Reds haven’t had a winning season in how long? The only numbers that count are the ones in the “W” column. As long as Dunn was here, those were grossly lacking. How do you replace those numbers? How about better defense (the Red’s have one of worst in the majors),hit with with runners in scoring position, getting 2 out hits, good pitching and speed. What they’ve been doing ain’t working. Time to fix it.
By Hoosier Reds Fan
August 12, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
I loved Griffey and Dunn, and I’m glad they’re both on 1st place teams where they need to be. I’m sad the 1st place team wasn’t in Cincinnati. That said, trading them was the right move for the Reds. The Reds have too many gaping holes on the team to be spending $25+ million a year on left and right field.
By Tiberius
August 12, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
First id like to say to Boxter, dont make yourself foolish by comparing Dunn to Mantle, Mantle did strike out 1710 times, he also walked 1733 times, Dunn has NEVER walked more than he has K’d. Second, it took Mantle 18 years to reach 1710 K’s, Dunn is in the middle of his 8th season and already has 1212 K’s, you think hes not going to pass Mantle?? Third, Mantle had a lifetime .421 OBP, Dunns is .380. Fourth, Mantle had a lifetime .298 ba. Dunns is .247.Jocketty has done this before.Give him tim
By THOMAS J
August 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Its all about money with the reds and a dividend for the investors.They are not going to finish any higher than last,so why pay two good players for the rest of the season and still finish last.Rember a lot of those homers by Griffey & Dunn were solo.At the D-Backs the problem has been men left on base/Dunn will be a great help there and will probably stick w/the D-Backs
By boxter
August 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Everyone complains about Dunn’s strikeouts. Yes he does strikeout just like Ryan Howard and all power hitters. Who is the all time leader in career strikeouts? MICKEY MANTLE struckout over 1800 times. Did or would the Yankees ever have trade him? This team will never replace 40 HR/100RBI/100Runs/ 100BB every year like they just gave away for NOTHING. An A player that has had Tommy John surgery? Amazing.
By EJ
August 12, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
All we hear is how you going to replace Dunn’s homeruns. How about saying we got rid of a strike out king. Dunn was no big master at the plate or in left field. Nobody wins with just sluggers, have to have somebody that get singles when needed, and that wasn’t Dunn or Griffey. I would rather see someone playing with interest and intensity and lose, than watch over paid players just filling time, and heck, come to think of it, still lose.
By Marty Thornsberry
August 12, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
I have beenn a Reds fan through many of the worst moves in history, but Joketty’s(spelling intended as he is a freaking Joke)trades have been the absolute stupidest in the history of this franchise. Dumped two outfielders with NONE on the roster, kept mose of the salary and got NOTHING in return. This will go down in history as the most ignorant trades in baseball. They may not have been in their prime but a Double A minur and 2 nobodies for Dunn? Beyond Stupid.Clearly winning was a lie.
By RedsAreAweful
August 12, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
I smell Reds boycott.
By Bob540
August 12, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
I have no problem with Griffey moving on to a winner. He deserves to end his career with shots at post-season play. As for Dunn, I am dismayed that Jocketty didn’t get more for him in that trade. To lose that kind of home run production with little to show for it — scratching my head here. The losing has not all been lack of pitching. If the Reds didn’t hit home runs, they seldom scored. So, they need more contact hitters as well as better pitching.
By Marty Thornsberry
August 12, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
In all the stupid trades the Reds have mafe over the years, as many times as they have been burned to a crisp i.e. the trade for the sore arms from the Nationals, there was some hope that at least the idiot that did that one was fired. Now in less then a week, Joketty(spelling intended)has made that trade look like a coup. What an absolute retarded thing these lasrt two trades are. Trade two outfielders when you have NONE to replace them and get less then nothing in return. Thanks a lot. Bob.
By Mike
August 12, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Dunn would be eligible for arbitration before the free agent market. Imagine him coming back making 16 mil per year.
By Roger L
August 12, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
It is sad to see a once proud franchise go down hill so completely. Don’t believe Jocketty has a plan at all. Didn’t get anything for the two superstars just departed. Just dumping money obligations to improve bottom line for owner. It’s obvious they don’t really care about the fans. So fans, find other ways to spend your money.
By Jim
August 12, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
I can understand this being a payroll move. I still have yet to see shat the Reds get in return. I want to know why we are carrying so much dead weight on the payroll: Corey Patterson $3 mil, David Weathers $3 mill plus, etc.. these guys have been no help this year. I think they should dump these guys before dumping a 40 home run guy. It will surely cost a lot of money in the offseason to replace those numbers. Can you imagine the number Dunn would put up if he had someone hitting behind him?
By scott
August 12, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
All he did was get rid of the two slowest corner outfielders in the majors. Nowhere to go but up.
Jocketty’s Cards were beating up on all those Jr/Dunn teams.
By Pete
August 12, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Problem: The Reds are suffering in part because the Cincinnati market has not kept pace with the rest of the Majors.
Solution: Sell the Reds to a Major League club like the Cards or the Red Sox and make them their triple A affiliate.
Cheers.
By Pete
August 12, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
From this day forward, I will be a lifelong Cardinals fan. Business is business. Why buy an inferior product.
Go Cards!
By zaco
August 12, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
I dont like the fact that n two weeks we have lost 70 homeruns still you have seen how that worked out the aswer to the reds problem is getting runners across the plate and that doesnt happen when we have to wait on dunn or jr to knock one out so this opens up both trades and free agency options so im still going to be tuning in to fsn every night
By zaco
August 12, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
I dont like the fact that n two weeks we have lost 70 homeruns still you have seen how that worked out the aswer to the reds problem is getting runners across the plate and that doesnt happen when we have to wait on dunn or jr to knock one out so this opens up both trades and free agency options so im still going to be tuning in to fsn every night
By zaco
August 12, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
I dont like the fact that n two weeks we have lost 70 homeruns still you have seen how that worked out the aswer to the reds problem is getting runners across the plate and that doesnt happen when we have to wait on dunn or jr to knock one out so this opens up both trades and free agency options so im still going to be tuning in to fsn every night
By Randy
August 12, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
If there’s one thing I learned from watching “The Godfather”, it would be to never criticize the dealings of an Italien businessman. They usually claim to own innocent businesses like fruit and vegetables. Let Walt try his hand of experience. What’s the worst that could happen, possibly finish in the cellar? Bringing in Bavasi to help out can’t hurt. We need to be more prudent with the money we’re throwing around. Like 40 million for a reliever????
By judy
August 12, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Dunn will now have a chance to make the Hall of Fame with the D-Backs. Griffey is already there. Guess it’s on the coaches now.
By RichW
August 12, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
glad to see the overpaid boobs go thanks Mr Jocketty now u need to can the whole coaching staff to itrust in you
By Jerry
August 12, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Sure it’s going to be tough as Reds fans to watch the current everyday lineup on the field but the Reds need players to consistantly sustain drives. To be able to have a Reds team that can rally by making much better contact would be awesome! The Reds have tried and failed for eight seasons with the likes of Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn. Change had to be made and I congratulate Walt Jocketty and Bob Castellini for biting the bullet and making those two trades. Encarnacion may be next.
By Jim Bachman
August 12, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
The Reds have been bad for 8 years now. I was sad to see Griffey go because of the promise of having Jr. in the Reds line up. Well, Bowden killed that when he opted to have a team full of swing for the fences guys and no pitching. It’s time to bring in the kids who wanna play, not guys who constantly talk about playing football at UT. Good riddance Dunn, I feel bad for the D-Backs because they’ll soon realize that those homers rarely come in crucial situations, and heck, neither do singles.
By Jim M.
August 12, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Hal, You think Reds fans want to go thru ANOTHER rebuild? It gets old hearing “Were just not going to lose anymore” to see only minor leauge baseball playing at the MLB level. when Jocketty was hired he made a statement that the Reds ownership knows they have to prove to the fans they want to win before the fans come out (not sure the exact comment), BUT, I better not hear in the off season, “due to low attenedence the last 2 months we cant afford to spend” i will be mad!! Reds fans deserve more
By Ken
August 12, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
With eight more homers this season, Dunn will become only the eighth player in major league history to hit 40 or more in five consecutive years. Think five straight years of 40 homers is impressive? Dunn is 20 walks from hitting 100 for the fifth straight year, and only Bonds has done 40-100 five in a row. Never Babe Ruth. Never Ted Williams. No one but Bonds and, soon, Dunn. But I’m sure the player to be named later will produce better numbers than that.
By Sam P
August 12, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
The most insulting thing regarding the Dunn trade, is that the Reds couldn’t even hold on to him for another six lousy weeks and let him go as a free agent to get the first roiund supplemental pick. To me this proves they have absolutely no intention of trying to win today or tomorrow. Afterall, if your building for the future then what better to have then an extra first round pick.
By Sam P
August 12, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
The most insulting thing regarding the Dunn trade, is that the Reds couldn’t even hold on to him for another six lousy weeks and let him go as a free agent to get the first roiund supplemental pick. To me this proves they have absolutely no intention of trying to win today or tomorrow. Afterall, if your building for the future then what better to have then an extra first round pick.
By Sam P
August 12, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
The most insulting thing regarding the Dunn trade, is that the Reds couldn’t even hold on to him for another six lousy weeks and let him go as a free agent to get the first roiund supplemental pick. To me this proves they have absolutely no intention of trying to win today or tomorrow. Afterall, if your building for the future then what better to have then an extra first round pick.
By Sam P
August 12, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
The most insulting thing regarding the Dunn trade, is that the Reds couldn’t even hold on to him for another six lousy weeks and let him go as a free agent to get the first roiund supplemental pick. To me this proves they have absolutely no intention of trying to win today or tomorrow. Afterall, if your building for the future then what better to have then an extra first round pick.
By Casey Todt
August 12, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
I feel for the marketing guys with the Reds. They have a challenge of luring in people to buy season tickets. The challenge is to get people to buy $40 a game seats, $4 hot dogs, and give them Dallas Buck on the mound. If thats not worth the money I don’t know what is. Good Luck guys! And to the Reds, until you give me a reason to drive the 2 hours to a game. I’ll stick with Grande and Welsh!
By Tommy Oakes
August 12, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Does Walt Jocketty have a plan? I’m sure he does. Will it work? Based on the way it’s starting out I’d say it’s not likely. They are going to have to spend money to get their way out of this and I don’t believe they have the money to do that. It’s just sad. Mr. Castellini should add partners or sell the team to someone with better funds if he really wants to see a winner in Cincinnati. All Mr. Castellini has delivered to the Reds fans so far are empty promises. Again it’s just sad.
By Steven Ross
August 12, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Patience is required to see what Jocketty does between now and Spring Training. He has a winning track record so I’m putting faith in his decisions. He’s making moves long overdue. Now that Griffey’s gone, is he missed? No! The same will hold true for Dunn. The mere fact there was little to no interest for him at the trade deadline spoke volumes.
By garrett levy
August 12, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
They threw the baby out with the bathwater when they traded Dunn. Can you say “Pitching” when someone asks why you were losing. I think this clubhouse culture stuff is garbage. They lost because they haven’t developed a pitcher in-house (Cueto is still a project in waiting) since Tom Browning.
By Clint Davis
August 12, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
I think it’s obvious that Jocketty is trying to make all the moves that spell a “rebuilding tenure”. As Hal put it, dropping the two most recognizable players on the roster says a lot but dropping them for minor league players that only the most active baseball fan would know and one relief pitcher that was already in the Bigs, says it even louder. I have no complaints about what Jocketty has done so far and I say keep on gutting because we’ve seen what this roster is best at, losing. A lot.
By Clint Davis
August 12, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
I think it’s obvious that Jocketty is trying to make all the moves that spell a “rebuilding tenure”. As Hal put it, dropping the two most recognizable players on the roster says a lot but dropping them for minor league players that only the most active baseball fan would know and one relief pitcher that was already in the Bigs, says it even louder. I have no complaints about what Jocketty has done so far and I say keep on gutting because we’ve seen what this roster is best at, losing. A lot.